GrampaJoel

If you put the Hair--on on the veg-tan you will be able to burnish the veg-tan , but probably will have a hard time getting the hair-on to finish. The chrome -tan( Hair-on leather) leather in my experience just wont take a burnish. I've never made a whole belt with hair-on, but have made some with hair-on. Here's what I would do. 1. cut the veg-tan belt as it is needed, and burnish the edges. 2. cut the hair-on a little larger, and glue on to the veg-tan. (You might try skiving the edges of the hair-on to a feathered edge, if the meat side is very thick.) 3. when the glue is dry, cut excess hair-on from the veg-tan piece. (I would angle the cutting device to an angle to cut the hair-on a little shorter than the burnished edge of the veg-tan.) If skived, and glued well this should give a pretty tight bonded clean edge. 4. scribe a stitch line on the Veg-tan( now the inside of the belt).and stitch it on. 5. Finish as needed.( punch holes, put buckle on etc.) I hope this helps a little. Joel

Most belts are made with Veg-tan leather. A hair on leather would probably be a chrome-tanned leather. I would suggest a layered belt with the veg-tan on the inside with the chrome-tan hair-on, sewn on the out side. Just one way.

Well as far as I can see you did nothing wrong. Judging contest always leave me wanting anyways. So, provided that saddle is made strong and correctly, anyone that sits it will , or should have a big smile and a heart full of warmth and pride. I hope you get a fortune for it! Joel

"""UPDATE!!!!!""" Today 06-13-11 I received in the mail the set of Lane fitting cards that I ordered. Actually as stated in an email to me by Mr. Lane,it is the second set mailed to me. This set was posted 06-03-11 Australian time, and took 10 days to get here, so this must be a second set he says he sent in an email I got today. 6-13-11. I have no idea what happened to the cards sent on the 18th of May. However, At this point I consider the deal finished. I thank all those involved in getting this purchased item sent to me. From the emails I have received I gather that I was not the only one waiting for an order to be delivered. I apologize to anyone that I might have offended. Thank you all again Joel

Thanks Denise. You have a heart of gold. I would love to meet you some day and give you a big hug for all the kindness you have shown me. I am not expecting you to carry a response on your shoulders of this event. Just so everyone knows, I have sent emails to almost everyone on Mr. Lanes web site that he uses for references. Now, Mr. Lane did tell me in an email he was shipping My fitting system out on May 18th. That was over 23 days ago. He said at that time it should take about 10 days to arrive here at my house. So it has been twice as long as he stated. I am in the USA, here in Southern California. One of the first stops made by planes coming from Australia. The fitting system, IF in fact, shipped on the 18th as stated in my email from Mr. Lane, should have been here many days ago, as it is now June 11. Actually I originally ordered and Paid in full in April. So, It should have been here a around the end of April. two months ago! Denise, as to you reply to my email. Yes it looks like I will have to do the old fashion measure back thing if I want to have trees made. Being a novice, I ordered Mr. Lanes system so I could use a more standard and simpler, and modern method. Oh well..... I guess the question at this point is why did Mr. Lane take my money when he new there was a problem fulfilling the order. And it seems that from your email he has done the same to others also, whether he intended to or not. I am not trying to defame Mr. Lane, but Mr. Lanes web site uses some pretty highly impressive references as to saddle and tree makers here in North America on his site. So I expected a simple order and receive He didn't waist any time and he respond immediately to my first inquiry as to how to pay for the fitting system. He excepted my pay pal money immediately. If he would answer his emails I would ask for a refund and go about my way. I do really hate to do this on leatherworkers, But this is where the whole thing started. So, I hope many others will read this and NOT send their money to him until he can get on his feet. At this point I feel that my money has been stolen. Whether on purpose, or by mistake, it's still gone. If and when my order shows up, or I receive a response or a refund from Mr. Lane I will post that also for all to see. Joel

Hi all In April of this year I contacted Dennis Lane about purchasing a tree fitting system from him. He replied and told me the cost. So I sent him the money through paypal and he received it. So I have paid for this purchase back in April of this year 2011 but here it is June 10th, and I still have not received the fitting system. When I emailed him in May inquiring about why I hadn't received the fitting system he said it would go out on May 18, 2011. He said it would take about 10 days to get the order. It's now June 10th and I still have not heard from him, nor received the fitting system, nor have I had an answer to my third, or maybe the fourth inquiry via email. I am hoping that someone can you shed some light upon this problem. Perhaps he has died? Perhaps he is sick? Perhaps he just doesn't care about the $119.75 US dollar's I sent him from way over here in America? But he took my money just the same.I don't know what else to do at this point. So I am starting to reach out to others on the net (and also to the saddle builders and tree makers he uses as references on his website) to see if I can find some answer as to why he took my money and didn't ship the fitting system to me. Again I am sorry to make this inquiry of folks here. I don't want to soil the mans reputation, I just want what I paid for. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Joel

Keith, Rod and Denise Nikkel, Thanks for the replies. Yes, I agree 1/4" would be deep enough for sure. Thanks again Joel

Thank you for your reply. I guess folks are beginning to see what a knowledge hog I can be at times. I ask questions like this of everything I do. So my question to you Rod, or Denise, whomever was kind enough to answered above. Would you cut to a depth requested if it didn't put in jeopardy the tree design and strength? It seems to me if a tree is cut to match the weight of stirrup leather being used, that the mechanics of the whole saddle might improve, or at least remove what appears to me to be a potential problem spot. Of course I could be way out in left field here. Thanks for all the help you have given me over time here. Joel

Thanks for the looks folks. I have my answer. Joel

Thank you Troy! Your answer is what I was trying to get at , but it seems that I was having a hard time structuring the right questions. Thanks Joel

Well now that I am feeling better,( I have a bad chest cold) let me see if I can answer your questions better. No, the posted pictures are not mine. so I don't know the measurements. But I will give you and example of how I prefer my head setup to work. There is a pressure point on the horses face that differs with each horses face. The bosal as I see it should be built for the face it is being used on. Now I know a person can't go building a custom bosal for each horse they work. But what I am saying is that the bosal should hang at the pressure point , so a bosal that fits is first most in importance. Hench a one size fits all wont work. I have heard, seen, been told of and witnessed a lot of bosals being used in what I consider an incorrect method. But on the other hand, a horse is so sensitive that a string will work if it makes communication between the horse and rider. So I profess to be just an observer. Oh, By the way, I have used a string on the mare I ride now with great success in training. (the String is like kite string) I like a medium soft nose band,( I dont want it to remove hair) and I like it to wrap completely across the nose to the points on the face where the facial bone structure starts to end, So with each horse it will of course be a different length. The side length I like it to be depends again, upon the individual horses face. I like the side pieces medium firm, to almost stiff, and to go down far enough that I can get at least a 5/8 " nylon mecate on with enough wraps to close the side pieces close to the face without pinching, and still have a proper wrap on the mecate. I like a heavy terminal button to help with a natural head set, and to pull the bosal back into it's place after I have pulled the reins as in making a stop or slowing down. I like the tail ( get down rope) to come out right under and between in (the center) my rein loop. I use a my own style/ designed bosal hanger that is a combo hanger and throat latch. I also use a fidora that is made to fit this head gear of my own design and have found that this works well for me. When I get up and around I'll add a few pictures if you wish. I'll have to take some because I don't have any that are close up enough for a person to see the complete design. I will be leaving on vacation for a few weeks in two days, so it might be some time before I can post the pictures. I'm heading for a couple weeks camping in the mountains of northern Idaho. I hope this chest cold goes away soon. I'd hate to die up there just trying to have fun. I hope these answers are what you were looking for. Good things to you. Joel

Those are HOT!! love the colors too!

nice job! Hey are those conchos on the Indian headdress?

Keith, Thank you for the reply. I'm having a hard time getting to my question. I suppose I should just ask a tree maker what I really want to know. Are the slots in the tree made to correspond to the weight of leather being used by the saddle maker, or are the slots just cut as desired by the tree maker? Thanks again Joel

Very nice job! I bet he will love them. Joel

Hello tree makers. I am wondering when a tree is built for a customer, if the thickness of the leather being used that will go into the stirrup leather slot is taken into consideration when cutting the stirrup leather slots in the tree bars? Thanks Joel

Thank you gentlemen for your replies. I am wondering if a saddle could have a rock created in it because the stirrup leathers are to thick for the slots allowed in the bars of the tree. So, now I guess I need to ask a tree maker if they take the size of leather being use into consideration when they cut the stirrup leather slots. Thanks again Joel

Alan The picture is just a quick grab off the net . It is definitely not my work. It is from this site. I am no master of horsemanship, but I have been studying the Buckaroo/Californio/Vaquero craft for some years now. In fact I don't agree with some of the Californio / Vaquero methods. Oh heck I don't agree with many methods I see now days. As for the braiding, I am also just a novice braider In fact I was admiring that you had made so much of your own equipment. I am working on the same at this time. My original comment was just a spur of the moment reply when I noticed a full size bosal and what appeared to be a spade bit together. I meant no harm, but was instead just curious about what might be a texas style of equiptment Joel

Alan Bell. I seem to have offended you. I am very sorry that I have done so and I offer a public apology to you. I apologize for making a comment that has darkened your day. Joel

I have got to say that I envy you totally. My goal is to have all tack made by myself. I have trained my mare, and now I need to complete the tack made by me. I have a question about the bosal. Do just have it on to show with what you have made? If not, It looks pretty large to have under a bit. Shouldn't it be a much smaller bosalita say maybe 3/4" or less? as seen in the extreme right in this picture? I'm not trying to belittle you. I'm just curious. As I see you are from Texas, and I am in California, so we may do things differently here.

I was wondering what stirrup leather thickness most builders here use. As in weight of leather, not width or length. It is actually a part of another question I have, but I am looking for an answer to this question before I get into another topic. Thanks Joel

Yes it does. Thank you. Joel

</h3> Spur2009, May I ask what you use to weight the ends? Thanks Joel

Luke Hatley, Thanks for the suggestion. The problem with Weaver is that I only need two dee rings, and I don't have a license. number so I can't order from Weaver. I have found places online that has what I need, but I don't need 1000 of them. Hummm. This is getting pretty frustrating.

I have an English style saddle in for dee ring repair( at the breast collar attachment spot), and a few other small repairs. I have looked high and low for a Dee Ring to match the one left on the saddle. On the net, and at the hardware stores. There is no brand name on the saddle so I dont have a maker to contact. It looks as if it has seen a pretty easy life from the top side. But I have found multiple repais done in slip shod fashion on the underside. I prefer my repairs to stand above all the others. So I want to have the Dee rings match as closely as possible. The owner doesn't want the dee ring attached by a leather wrap. So I need a dee ring that is 7/8" on the inside, and 1 1/4" on the outside with a 3" metal clip. So does anyone have an inside source to a dee ring supplier that might have a dee ring such as this? Thanks Joel