GAP

Let me join in the bunch of highly satisfied customers of Siegal Leather! I'm just a small time artisian who makes a few highly customized goods on a part time basis. Siegals Leather, has always been more than happy to assist me in whatever way they can. I've appreciated doing business with them, and will continue!

I'd like to know how do you talk them into letting you measure thier pin bones?

Just as Steve said, you might want some wood putty to fill the gaps up to the rawhide cover. If you want just something to increase the size easily, you can use casting from your vet supply, and shape if to your desire.

I've been torturing chunks of dead cow for a few years. Also have always had a liking for blades, and the makers of them. As a result, every once in a while I get the urge to churn out a knife or two. Damn though, never nothing like that.... That is truly some awesome work! Are you making some for sale?

Nice job JW! What differentiates the ranch cutter from your others? Horn, bars, groundseat? I've never been around any.

You might see if you can find "They Saddled the West" by Lee Rice and Glenn Vernam. There is a chapter in it about Meanea saddles

That's an interesting topic on the watermarks... still havn't read the complete thread.... I've kinda followed this topic through here and another site. It really gets my hair up! Very few things I can't put up with, and most of them I can just put a grin on and keep on going. Liars and thieves just aren't one, no matter what excuse they come up with. They are DS! Those of us who are honest, have a hard enough time keeping the wolves from the door without a sheister coming along to steal from us. I've been stolen from before too, and not a small amount. I can't touch him legally because of contractual limitations. But one of these days, I will see him again and it's liable to be in a lonesome place. No matter whether the lie or theft be big or small, it's still the same! There is the law, and there is what is right, sometimes the two just never meet!

Some exceptionally fine work, fellers! I said it on the other forum, guess I'll say it here too. I believe the craftmanship and artisistic endeavors are constantly improving throughout the history of the western saddle. Some of todays makers are the best there ever has been.

Trucks have a minimum of 6 wheels and rated at 2 1/4 tons. But, I guess you're talking about pickups, and yeah, there are a hell of a lot of them! And most of them aren't needed... especially 4-wheel drives. I'm kind of a minimalist, but I still have (just) one at the moment, and a 66 ford bronco, and a $200,000 stackwagon. Wished I could get by with a saddlehorse or three and a team. The stackwagon pays it's own way and then some... the bronco is a toy waiting to be hatched... and the pickup is an everyday driver used to get me down the road to meetings, to see the GF, haul all my junk around... it's only a partial necessity. The bronco and PU are still a major expense! I wish I could throw them in the ditch, along with my cell phone. Seems I need all of them to keep a set of wheels of wheels under the kid, and keep my business maintained? I'd rather spend my money on booze and women!

I made it to Sheridan, maybe in 97 or 98? Only trade show I've been able to make it too. Don Kings museum was worth the road trip! I could've spent a couple more days in there.... Just go! Take a camera, cuz you'll use it. And no worries, you can empty your pockets of jingle, and still carry it away in just your pockets!

Damn, That's a good looking rig! Just has that balance and eye appeal you look for. Nice job! Gary

That nail gun anology just didn't work for me, but my carpentry skills are limited to an axe, chainsaw, and a BFH. Would you purchase a $20 nail gun that delivered the nails at 3/4 depth, and had to come back and finish them..., or leave them cuz most wouldn't notice, or the $200 one that put them in right every time? I've got lots of homemade tools, as well as custom tools, and I've still got a couple of craftools that are favored for very singular jobs. You have to use what you are comfortable with. You are the main person to satisfy, and establish what you do, as well as how well you do it! Your pricing should reflect that as well? Wanna hire me for some finish carpentry? I'll guarantee a rustic look!

I've never been a fan of using anything more than I needed to and seldom use a breast collar. There are occasional horses/situations that require the use of one. I see lots of people using them when they don't need one, and oftentimes it's adjusted wrong. Either without a connecter strap for the front cinch or way too loose, allowing some styles to ride high enough to pull into the esophagus, causing problems with not wanting to pull, etc. I've built quite a few martingale styled collars that either connect across the top with a strap ran through another strap that is buckled around the fork, or sewn D's on the ends of straps that are then ran around the fork and buckled to the collar. The style that the strap runs through another allows the sides of the collar to move with the horses shoulders, and the strap does last surprisingly long if taken care of. I don't have one to illustrate but heres a picture of how the strap crosses over, and use your imagination for the rest. The style I prefer to use when I need one is this one of mohair with the center ring dividing it. I know it's not leather, but it's what I've found works the best in my situation. Never have I had a problem with it chafing a horse, in the center, or on the shoulder. On plate/skirt rigs I attach a clip rather than use a dee attached to the front button. Gary

Cowboy 316, Like Hidepounder suggests... study that book and anyones work you can! I commend you on taking the time and initiave to take a piece of scrap and see what you can do, and how it works out, then ask others what they think. It's where you improve and get ideas from! I somewhat recognize styles and where they come from, but I'm pretty limited on what/where I speak from. I'm also on dialup, so that kinda limits the time frame I take to dowmload pictures. I did download your last picture, and it did look good! The only thing I would change is where it ties back into the circle. IMO it should have no beginning nor ending in that type of arrangement. If you want to continue it on, you can bring it out in place of a stob, or make a crossover. Just throw some feeling at it! There are times that you can start out of a corner, or "hidden spot", but you have to finesse the beginning to make it look graceful. I went down to the dungeon and pulled some scrapings off the wall to hopefully give you an idea of what I mean. The beginning of the right one could have been better "finessed" to amke it appear more graceful. These are just scrap/cut offs pieces that I've played on when I had a chance. Never waste a piece of leather if you want to improve your stamping... it all takes time, patience, and fortitude. I hope I never get to the point where I'm done improving. Gary

Howdy everyone! Stumbled across this site a while back, while looking for ideas on a jaw closing mechanism for a deep throat stitching horse. I've made a few posts here and there meanwhile. Like many of you I started as a kid in 4-H. I soon lost interest in carving or stamping, and just did my own repair or made things out of necessity. I'd had two or three saddles made that kinda inspired me to make my first. Of course getting married, having a kid, and needing a new rig, on cowboy wages was a bigger inspiration. So, I saved enough to buy a tree from Hercules, three sides of skirting, and my hardware. Thus began on my first saddle. I also had one of Bruce Grants braiding books that had a little section on how to build a western saddle, by Lee Rice. I about wore the spine of that book out. Probably took about 6 or 8 months for me to finish that saddle, working evenings and Sundays. In the end I had a somewhat rough, but servicable kack. A few neighbors either took pity on me, or liked what I'd done and gave me money to torture more leather! Then along came the beginnings of the Colorado Saddlemakers Assn. I showed at the first show, which I believe was judged by Jim Kelley. It gave me the chance to meet peers and future mentors, as well as see close up work. This helped me immensely! Some of these dedicated, and talented makers, showing saddles would offer ideas and show me ways to better what I was doing. The judges, from all over the country... were a big asset too! I would ask them to personally critique my saddle after the show... which everyone of them was willing. Went through a divorce and kinda lost interest in anything leather for a few years, plus I had a business that was consuming a big part of my time. Last fall my ears kinda perked up, and I sat down and beat on a few pieces. Dang, it just felt good to be doing again! When I found this site, I took in so much info that was freely shared, I had to join.... plus most of the pictures wouldn't show until I did. hehe! My knowledge of what is capable with leather is pretty darn limited, and I'm sure to learn a lot here. Maybe I can give an idea or suggestion to help someone else too? Just glad I found this place! Gary Here's a pic of the last saddle completed. It went to a young lady that just kept after me to make it.

Holy Mackerel! That is some fantastic work! Just thinking...I had never been inspired by coloring leather until an article in leather crafters journal, that I think (Paul Burnett?) submitted. Seems like it was a long free flowing redhead with a moon phase in the background? I'm gonna have to dig it out and do some slobbering again. Seems like he had plugged the leather too? both of which is something I've never experimented with. Need to give it a go? This site constantly amazes me, and I can get so lost in here! I'd best get my butt in gear, and go beat the tar out of some dead cow. Thanks for posting these pictures! Gary Parrish

Looks good to me, Luke! On your slobber straps, they look a little wide at the fold to me. Just personal preference maybe? You might try and stretch the outside edges at the fold when you're done to give it more of a ( appearance. Just adds a little more finesse IMO.

Hi Bob, I'm pretty much a newbie to these forums too. And I also have read this thread with interest. I would however say that proper fit is much more critical to a cowboy than the recreational rider. He's the one making a liviing out of his saddle, trying at times to fit a broad spectrum of horses. If he's soring horses, he's soon afoot, and without a job. Or even a single horse sored has to be turned out, and isn't makiing his way. Yeah its nice to trade horses when you come in and have more work to do, but often it's not an option. There are at times unfavorable conditions, like putting a big circle in, and then dragging calves the rest of the day, or maybe roping cows for fun or work? Don't matter which one, it's a part of making a horse good! Just something you couldn't do if you're having problems with your saddle. He might ride several different types of horses in addition to the ranch horses... from colts to problem horses. There are horses that need rode more than others, maybe even camped on for 2 or 3 days straight. When you're riding hard and pulling wet blankets off all the time, if you have fitting problems, it most assuredly will show up! A lot of difference between them and the recreational rider! But if they're both riding western saddles, (that's all I know) I'm gonna stick with the cowboy philosophy of a general fitting tree instead of a "micro fit" to a problem back. I've got by riding lots of ill shaped backs, changing pad usage, and rode them hard too. The rec rider might be well read on the subject more so than the cowboy. But, hands down IMO, expereince and usage count more for the horse, saddle, and rider. I don't do a whole lot of riding anymore, but I still want the best fit possible for the type of horse I'm on, same as I would for a customer. I agree style and usage are determining factors in how the saddle is made. But.... I don't see that changing how the tree should fit the horse. And the tree, being the whole foundation... I want the best. I started using (good?)production trees, and as my knowledge iincreased I could see the problems associated with some of them, though not all. And some problems were big, in my opinion! Some were sent back, and some were dealt with in the best way possible... since your on somewhat of a timetable. In the early 90's I finally made it to the Sheridan show, there I met Rod and Denise Nikkel, and Ben Swanke. Holy Mackerel, The difference in trees astounded me! And I liked the education they were willing to give! There are more, I just havn't had the opportunity to try them yet. I actually think that these custom trees are probably the best in the history of mans relationship with the horse. I'm not that much of a saddlemaker, just a beginner in fact. I still want to know that when it walks out... I did my best to give them what they want and then some. I'm not gonna try to "micro fit" some odd shaped, unsound horse, because it's got my name on it when it leaves. I don't expect a tree maker to do that either. Sorry for the rambling thoughts,... just so much info on here to be absorbed, that I get a little lost at times. Gary Parrish

Very very nice! Thanks for the extra pics, been looking for them. Gary

I posted this on leather pro forum and thought I'd share it here as well. This was made from scavenged Oak and steel for a few dollars. About $16 for the 1/4" plate added to reinforce the bottom and the hinge. The woodwork was all completed with a chainsaw, shoeing rasp, and disc sander. Went with pipe for the undercarriage, mostly for ease of making it. The left jaw (as sitting) is stationary with lag screws into the seat, and a block screwed and glued at the top junction. I thought about reinforcing it at the bottom, but believe this is sufficient. You can see a throat is cut out into the seat area too. There is a spool above the catches that lets the leather move freely to cinch down the jaws. And a spring across the bottom of the jaws to open them. Just a little over 36" of throat, and a person could modify things some to get clearance to floor level if needed. The right jaw is attached with a simple T hinge, welded, and with a carriage bolt ran through both the plate and seat. I did tighten the T hinge up by putting it in a vise and giving the center portion a few good raps with a heavy hammer nad a cold chisel. I've always wanted one that I didn't have to fold things over, or sew at a cocked angle above the jaws. It took a few hours knocking this out, but I believe it was time well spent. Gary

In the simplest of words, in my simple vocabulary, that is one terrific job! Muy, muy, bueno! Gives me something to keep me motivated. Shucks, there is so much darn nice work on here, I get lost! Wished I had found this site a few years ago. Id'a still been lost, but what a place to be lost in! So many posts to challenge the creativity...

Looks like a very nice job Linda! I've never tryed a sidesaddle yet... one of these days!

If you havn't seen this homemade drawdown that functions pretty well, you might take a look here. I been reading on here off and on for several days and just now found this thread. Gary Dangit! Can't attach a link to it??? It's over in the general saddlery discussion under Drawdown of a different color

Went and visited a feller I worked for last weekend. He's 92 now, and still makes a hand horseback. Still can build a loop and use it, and a cowman mindset thats good! Has a hard time makiing his legs move in front of him afoot, though. Has to have his horse saddled and unsaddled by somebody. So maybe, I'm planning for a future date down the road aways... quite aways, I hope! I saw a tree a year or two ago made by a treemaker in Ft Collins??? It had a cable rig with a locknut for positioning. Just an interesting idea that has my little mind churning. The groundseat built in with the tree and cable rigging. I'm thinking you could build an extremely lightweight saddle out of something like this. Something that maybe could take some "guff". This ole boy will still jerk a rope down and catch a cow that doesn't want to be a part of the gathering. I think?... the groundseat could be shaped more by a rasp and sanding disk, or pretty much wherever, in reason. I saw this tree that a feller had, and I know he has used another. He was pretty high on it. Has anyone else used one? And thier thoughts? Don't plan on using one in the near future, but if I get to make it to his age, I might!

Very iinteresting thread here! Took me a couple of days to kinda read, digest and compare my thoughts. Wish I had caught earlier discussions? I'm spending way too much time reading on here as it is though. I'm wanting to hear more about these trees too.... from my perspective I don't see one staying put. But I don't know the riders, makers, or anything else about them. I t looks like they were just sat on the horse and cinched down without giving it a wiggle and push back you do when saddling up? I'd like to see some bar pictures? Is there any? And maybe a tree setting on a horse? I'm trying to understand why so far forward? Like it was said: I can't see one used like that in ranch work. If your horse is facing the rope, it looks like you're bars are gonna be pulled down into the shoulders. In fact... I can't picture one being used like that, period? But I've never tried to fit one to a single horse either. Just here to learn, no more no less ................. My own use... I love using a 7/8 plate rig. I've used one for a long time... of hard use, every day, long circles, ropeing big cattle in not good conditions on some not so good horses, as well as had instances dragging calves to the fire all day long where stake ropes were used. Ropers are simply hard to come by at some places anymore. They stay put good on most, transfer the pull well, allow as much freedom as you want, and wear well. Much better than any ring or dee rigged saddle I've had. Gotta admit that I've only had a couple though. When somebody asks what I suggest... it's either a plate or skirt rig 7/8, just depends on how they ride. Never have been convinced of using a skirt rig in the conditions above. But I do love 'em otherwise!.