JLSleather

Sweet .. we's gittin' pics I always liked the look of that white on black. And even dyed inside the slots (nice). When yer makin holsters (well, anything really) with that skirting, run yer bone tool down the flat sections -- much like butterin' bread. Smooth as ever...

A LOT of people are using a "shop press", including me. It's "fast enough" for me - meaning it would be nice to speed it it, but not $2k nice Red mentioned holsters, which can also be wet formed in the same press.

http://www.jlsleather.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/1911_05P0.pdf

#1 rule - remember that in the end it is nobody else's business what you charge or why. Having said that, I'm only commenting because you asked. If you charge a "mint", not my business. If you GIVE it away, STILL not my business. #2 (which is related to #1) - what someone else charges shouldn't have much of anything to do with what you charge. If you're simply thinking "fair market value is what you can get" - then I guess you get what you can. But I've seen some leather work which showed obvious talent, and some which showed an obvious lack of talent -- I wouldn't be interested in one that was priced the same as the other, and saying that all leather checkbooks are equal is not true. #3 there are pricing "formulas" all over the place. Double the material cost -- plus the price of diesel fuel in Japan - plus stand on your left foot facing west on tuesday mornings ... blahblahblah.... All of it means virtually nothing, since if it's not well done, I dont' buy it. Even if the price is low. For myself, I don't buy anything based on "per hour" charges. I want to know what it is I'm getting, and then I know how much I'm willing to pay. It's the only RATIONAL way to do it. Consider teh other way around.... PersonA makes a wallet, takes him 5 hours and it looks good. PersonB makes a wallet, takes 10 hours and it's hideous and poorly done. Doesnt make sense to pay the second guy more than the guy who knew what he's doing. Another example.. when I had the roof done, I agreed to pay about $8,000. If they do it in 2 days, they get $8k. If it takes them half the third day, they STILL get $8k. If they are the type to "hurry" because they don't get paid "by the hour", then they don't get paid at all at my house (not even hired). SO THEN: all that said I do think there are some factors which influence price: Are you making something different nobody else is offering? Are you doing something widely used, but doing it differently? Are you making something common, but yours is notably better than others? But I don't consider machines or the lack of them a factor in pricing. For a project which is stitched, is it stitched well? If I buy a new truck to go pick up the leather, should I factor that in? (that's intended to sound ridiculous) If I have a clicker to click out the parts, the machine costs money, but the labor goes way down.

Yer funny I'm a simple guy, too. Smart dog, truck what runs, and a decent fishin' rod, and a guy got what he needs. The wench wife not so much. Spoiled brat from birth, basically. I love garden fresh veggies, but I aint allowed to til up 'her' lawn She sold my truck AND my Suburban, gave me a '07 van "for the mileage". This, of course, freed her up to buy the new car ... Oh, well --- the van works, my 7.5 foot fishin' rod fits in there without a bow in it, and there's walleye in teh river not more than half a mile from here .... End result, ther's some "wiggle room" in the pricing around here. I once sold a fully tooled and lined belt for $8, just cuz somebody told me I couldn't. And a couple incidents that cost me some money and some hours. Wouldn't wanna make a habit of that, though.

Yep, convertible is good. Attachments are good. Any time I can use one thing for multiple purposes, that's good. Sometimes, leather people are not the most creative batch. Take a piece of leather like everybody else, use the same pattern as everybody else, and call it "custom" (or, the truly gifted call it "kustom") and then expect people to pay a mint for it. I know one in particular, ALL his stuff looks about the same.and when another guy made something "kinda like it" he asked that people don't copy his trademarked "design". I advised guy #2 to go on about his business, as long as you aren't using Thing 1's logo, tell him to go back to his own yard Might have been amusing, but Thing1's work looks like it was made by a blacksmith

Neat and trim is good, and cops are often expected to look "presentable" (pay no attention to the big belly and the disillusioned scowl ). This is something of a reflection on quality of workmanship, and one I agree with. Personally, I would rather wear a clean, good looking WEB belt than an ugly, poorly done leather one (especially when the ugly is priced 10-15 times the pretty).

I think some folks get confused about what they "can't afford" to work for. I got a guy - used to be my buddy, but now became quite proud of what he owns, which is strange since any money he has was gained by exploiting teh work of these "illegal" people. Anyway, he was quite proud to show me his brand new king-cab truck, with all teh options. Had a long pretty story to go with it, about how if you're a contractor, you have to look professional - and driving a 'nice' truck makes you look professional. I told him when I see a guy in my drive with a truck that comes with $600/month payments, I don't see "professional" -- I see a guy who likes shiny trucks and wants ME to pay for it . In fact, I think if he shows up again, I'm gonna ask him what size he wears, so I can order him a new skirt. POINT IS: What is it that keeps you from being "able to afford" to work for less? After bad-mouthing the immigrant, the government, and the young -- are we ourselves guilty of a bit of "entitlement"? I mean, everybody loves to point at someone else, but I'm already seeing people who go on about saving money and saving the planet now hanging Christmas lights and decorations. No doubt they will add the cost of these as "overhead" and add it to the cost of their goods .... Just an example of cost - a simple 'pancake' style holster. Pattern available free on my site for a simple Glock 43 holster (download any time you like). That pattern will require a little over 1/2 of a square foot of leather. THE BEST leather for teh job is sold at about $10/foot (after shipping charges - delivered). Some waste is expected even in a good hide -- nowhere near 50%, but lets use that for this example. So, call it a FULL square foot. There's $10. Throw in a dab of glue and a couple feet of thread, and you have a whopping $11.50 Now, don't line up to tell me about all the "legitimate" expenses you can think of to add on. In case the new guy doesn't know, I have an idea what that requires The question is rhetorical -- ask YOURSELF if you are doing what you don't think others should do .... Because I have kids in school, I meet other people with kids (whether I want to or not). In the last couple of years, I have met several DOZEN people who do not work.. some of them NEVER have, and do not intend to. I've heard them complaining that the 'welfare check' was late. One was absolutely livid when finding out that she was going to have to pay a portion of her own rent herself (she's not paying it actually, the check she gets from tax payers will just be reduced a little, but she sees the that as the same thing). And these people are not immigrants, politicians, or youth.

I'm not doing this until after I'm settled from the move. It's a bit pricey to order ONE from the factory, but I use enough of 'em to justify spending the money for "dealer" pricing, and if the next guy can benefit too I'm okay with that. Honestly, I tire of waiting for "distributors" to stock a model, only to find out that they've jacked the cost by about $10-12 on each one. Jacked up $10 once, so what?!#!! Jacked up $10 50 times, now that starts to matter. Maybe a lease program, for the folks who just need a particular gun model once or twice, but dont' want to stock it. Like pay the shipping (both ways) and you can 'borrow' one...

I make the liner 1/4" shorter than the outside (side to side). Assuming by "bi-fold" you mean the second row here, with the fish and eagle (what I call a "billfold").

Ideally, buy the leather already looking good on teh back. Second, split it so that it looks good on the back (cut out the fuzzy). Or, line it as suggested.

Now you're getting to the heart of the issue. "Out of fashion" is dependent on what someone ELSE thinks... not the user's own opinion. In fact, many (I personally think MOST) people in this country (not JUST this one) don't even HAVE an opinion or a "style" of their own --- just do what the other guy is doing so I won't get any 'bad press'. Puppets, who do things without knowing why they do them. My wife still has a bit of that, though nothing like in teh past. If you do things simply because "that's the way we always did it", your life is not YOURS. Just food for thought... Plus, I had to get on the computer and order some replacement tools. Plus, I have no "boss" who I'm cheating out of a day's work. And plus, I've already done more this morning than some will "do" (accomplish) all week

Uhh.. yeah, that's what I said. People came to this country from .. a lot of places. "Settled" on teh land of others, which they decided constituted ownership. Other words, these "founding fathers' decided that since they can't take it back from us, that makes it ours (no change there in a couple hundred years). And they had children, and called them "US citizens". ANd wrote laws, stating that anyone born here was AUTO a US citizen. Now, people move here, claim some ground, and have babies. The babies are US citizens by constitutional law. So, the problem then? By statute. Written by those who want it that way. Not rocket science there... Note that the country was "founded" because where these people came from they were NOT the ones "in power" and writing the rules. They couldn't "take back" land (or rights) which were taken from them, so tehy moved here and did the same thing to others. Not seeing the "great" just yet ...

And.. at teh station this morning, top of the rack is yesterdays newspaper from another town... whinin' "equal rights" for "the GLFQN community", or whatever they's callin that now. See, I'm all for EQUAL rights, but not EXTRA rights. "Gay" couple (their word, not mine) in OH wants to sue a catholic church for refusing to do the marriage ceremony. Hel LO>.... I thought only catholics could be married in a catholic church (and sometimes, only those who are members of THAT parish). I'm not catholic, so no offense intended if I got something wrong in there. EQUAL: You know, as in "all men are created equal". This of course was a farce, since teh people who WROTE that (supposedly wehn america was "great") had slaves and were actively killing off teh natives on teh land they were "claiming". But the theory was a good one, and certainly it has been marketed extensively. EQUAL: as in ... "you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?"

Gettin' a bit behind around here.. tha'sa nuther one I been "meanin to" get at. Ran into a feller up this way got 30 guns (yeah, I don't know why, either.. but still...)... So, howsa boutit fellas? ANybody with a 30S?

Well, this certainly has veered a bit Skipping the flowery speeches, you change an area by changing individuals (meaning, yourself). To "fix" any problem, you need to first identify the problem. In fact, if teh intent isn't to "fix" anything, then the topic is more noise much like the other things blamed for ... whatever isn't "great" in america. Let's take the example of "illegal" immigrants, just for example: I've personally met a number of "illegal" immigrants. I scoff at the term, really. These boys (and a few girls) came looking for work. They were willing to do the work, not just show up for a 'job' that pays them whether they did anything or not. In fact, they freely stated (more than once occasion) that they didn't expect to be paid until the work was done and satisfactory. They just wanted to feed their families, and were willing to work to do it. This - of course - is the SAME thing YOUR family did (unless of course you are native to this area, which is gonna be maybe 1 in 10,000?). I don't blame them one bit.. in fact: I think "americans' could take a lesson here. Got a job? Do you accept money, even though you haven't done anything? How many are on the forums here, while at their "job", because 'my boss is okay with it'. Well, WHAT is it your boss is okay with? You mean he doesn't mind paying you money to do something not related to his business? Is that what he (or she) is okay with? Here's a thought.. instead of 'shame', how bout we discuss PERSONAL INTEGRITY? ANybody remember that stuff? But instead of actually DOING MY JOB (which would make "illegals" unnecessary) we prefer to make it "illegal" for others to do exactly what we did. Yeah, you read that correctly. So, where does change start? I can control my house, and my yard.... Stop blaming 'the other guy' and do something beneficial -- So, WHY do people think "illegal" immigrants are a problem, anyway? Because they "take jobs" from "us"? Largely, the jobs these people work are the ones that employers had trouble filling! I personally employed a hispanic young man (born and raised in Houston, aka US CITIZEN) who was an honest hard-workin' kid. Now owns his own business, and doing pretty well. But that guy up the street sure wanted to know why I hired them "aliens" (just a note here.. get your story straight before opening the mouth.. you'll look better that way). And I reminded him that I had offered that job to him TWICE, but he didn't want it. Wait.. it's because they're often desperate and willing to work for LESS money than "americans". This is often true -- and I say with a straight face that there have been times when I could use the cash and have worked for less than I would have liked. When I was younger, I once walked onto a construction site and asked about work. Guy siad they paid $7 per hour, which I knew wouldn't pay enough to replace the clothes I was going to ruin. So I told him I'd work TODAY for $7/hr, and tomorrow when he knew what I could do -- we gotta renegotiate (which we did). But what is the incentive for the people who allow them to work here? ("them" turns my stomach, but I'm using that word here to make the point). Employers: this is a no brainer, really. If I have employees, do I want someone who shows up EVERY day, doesn't whine about time off, actually DOES the work I'm paying him to do (not texting and cheeping, or whatever they do now), helps his co-workers (knowing it helps him to help the next guy), and hasn't asked for "light duty" because he's 40 pounds over weight, etc.... Govt: Every day, BILLIONS of dollars are paid to "undocumented" workers. Money is sent in to state and federal taxes, and social security (sometimes removed from checks written, sometimes sent in by the employer to cover up for checks NOT written). ANd it's all money the NOBODY CLAIMS back at the end of the year. BILLIONS of dollars sent to the federal government that NOBODY claims a refund on. Need that explained more?

I may be seeing something different than you. I've used that stuff a couple of times (had to give it a chance, I suppose) and I thought it was supposed to be thick! Once, though, my buddy got a weird result with a Fiebings acrylic product. He contacted Fiebings, who told him they thought it had been allowed to get cold - "near freeze" - (maybe on a UPS truck?). They just sent him a replacement bottle. Personally, if i had one bottle was "bad", prolly just pitch it and forget it. But multiple bottles from teh same supplier, I'd be saying something.

Yep. Likely should have just done this from the start But, I wasn't making holsters for a good while, 'til m' buddy Robert got me doin 'em again.

You talkin' antique stain, antique dye, or antique finish? Not that I would know much about any of the above, other than that I know they are NOT the same product.

Guess maybe I'll add 'dummy' guns to the mix of what I'm sendin' out. Hafta check on how that goes north of the border (MN), but today I talked with the folks at Ring's, got the straight answer on "dealer" pricing ($39 ea). Maybe set up somethin' where a fella (er a gal) could buy the dummy gun and save on the holster pattern? Maybe git that chubby girl to help with the shippin' o' stuff ...

Yep.. is this a geographical thing ? I remember firing that guy ... maybe 10 years ago. Told him I like to see what I'm getting for my money. And this check here I'm handing you is the FOURTH time I'm paying you and can't put my finger on just what you're being paid FOR. So, do tell me ... point to SOMETHING that YOU did, and I'll get over it and on about the business. In fact, SHOW ME what I paid for WITH THIS CHECK, and I'll not only drop it, but I'll throw in dinner and a movie for you and your wife. He couldn't point. As for labor costs -- TOO MANY people see skilled leather people talking abouit $30 per hour and up, so they price theirs the same way. But some may be old enough to remember the "wage gap" for women. Or minorities. Or homosexuals. Or whatever it is this week. And the slogan became "equal pay for equal work". Which I'm ALL FOR, personaly. But if you want the same wage as teh experienced, talented crafter, then do the same work - and I mean do it AS WELL as that guy.

You mention multiple why-tube videos, but say you can't "learn this from a computer" (I agree, you can't). But I don't think we're talking about the same thing any more. While I would agree that people aren't used to seeing skilled work, my position is that it DOESN"T MATTER WHY. If your work "sucks", then it really makes no difference whether it's done "by hand" or with machines. And I disagree that you can't tell quality from the product ... in fact, that's the only place you can tell. We've all seen acres of hand made poop.. all the time. The fact that it's "handmade" doesn't make it better than it is. This is just one reason FOR the increase in manufactured stuff -- if the 'crafted' is poop, then WHY would I buy it .. much less pay more for it!?$??!?!

NOW you're getting there. It's one thing to not want to pay for real quality and workmanship. We're WAY beyond that. People want cheap and fast, because they INTEND to replace after a short time. Many aren't interested in a product that will last for years, since they are terrified that their "friends" will have something different soon and they'll want to follow along ... Blame at least some of this on teh crafter, though. Long speeches about "handmade" attached to something poorly done with low-grade materials, and viola -- people who think "handmade" means flaws and errors coupled with higher prices.

Your "made in america" myth was present even back then. The railroad you refer to was largely built by Chinese and Irish immigrants

I use an 11 oz rawhide mallet for tooling. Not sure how the rubber would work at all, but with rawhide, 11 oz is plenty.