Matt S

Looks good to me, and better than my first attempts at leather mangling. The main thing that strikes me is that 5SPI is very coarse for an item of this size and thickness, but that's a taste thing (I grew up around English saddlery, where 8SPI is considered ordinary). I know that some people like long, straight stitches though, so as I say it's a taste thing. The effect when leather that changes colour when it's folded is called "pull up". It's generally the sign of a non-opaque finish on the leather and often seen as a desirable thing. It's mostly caused by fats and waxes migrating through the leather as it's stressed. You can reset the effect by warming it with a heat gun or vigorous brushing. Yes it does make things difficult making stuff consistently when selling, especially when online. If you want a smoother edge, sand and burnish after you've stitched and hammered your seams, as both of these steps can distort the flat, smooth edge you're working for. Oh and glue the sides together before stitching to keep the edges from moving apart when you burnish.

According to Threadexchange the 335 takes a H bobbin. I assume that's the older/smaller hook version.

@PhilN, have you tried casing/damping the leather before clicking? It would theoretically reduce the pressure required but I've never tried it. Alternatively, have you tried taking multiple "bites"? For instance if you can put the die-leather-board sandwich only halfway into the press and take a hit, in theory the press will only "see" 4 linear metres, you will double the knife pressure, and might go to full depth. Then without removing the die from the leather raise the press and put the whole die under the press and take another hit. Again you'll only be putting 4 linear metres into effect. Depth limitation is probably something you want to look at once you've got it cutting to full depth, or you'll easily destroy your cutting board and maybe clicking dies if you press them all the way through the board.

Just seen this thread. Think I have a spare bobbin winder for the #6 in storage.

Yeah that's a lot of effective cutting area. Tippmann, for instance, only rates their 15 ton press for 60 linear inches (1500mm) of cutting area on leather, and I'm not sure that it'd do that on harder veg tan like you seem to be using. Even if you're getting a full 40 tons out of those two jacks, and there's no flex in the machine, you might be trying to take too big a bite. Taking Tippmann's figure as a basis (4 linear inches per ton) you'd be looking at 160 linear inches or 4 linear metres for a 40 ton press. It's a cool press. How are you limiting the depth of cut?

That was the servo that Wimsew used to supply with their machines. I had one, and it beeped. No speed limiter or provision for EPS/NPS either. They now supply Jack servos with their machines IIRC. Adler 69 is pretty much a Pfaff 335 -- small cylinder with 2-motion/oscillating feed dogs and relatively small H-size bobbin. Adler 269 is more of a Singer 153/Seiko CW8/Cowboy 227 -- a larger 75mm nose with larger M-type bobbins and a 4-motion/elliptical feed. You'll likely have about a 7mm distance from the end of the arm to the needle with both of these, unless they're some special subclass or modification. The 69 will probably top out at TKT40/V69 thread and the 269 TXT20/V138 thread, but both can probably go up another size in the needle, or maybe top and bottom with a timing tweak. You'll probably get about about 9-10mm sewing capacity in the 269, and a few mm less in the 69. You can see scans of the original brochures for these machines here: http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/commons/download/download-text-attachments/Vintage_Leaflets_Adler/Leaflets_Adler_Class_69.pdf http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/commons/download/download-text-attachments/Vintage_Leaflets_Adler/Leaflets_Adler_class_269.pdf One advantage that these have over the Tysew, Typical and Global machines is that they were German made. German engineering speaks for itself. Quality of manufacture in a sewing machine leads to less noise/vibration in use, less "walking out" of settings, easier accessory compatibility, easier adjustment and less chance for parts to bend, break or strip screw threads. I had a Wimsew W246 for a while. It's definitely an improvement in features over a 335-type machine, in that it has a small 50mm nose but a larger M-size bobbin, a 4-motion/elliptical feed dog and is happy with TKT20/V138 thread. On a real Juki I'm sure it works excellently but the example I had (which had been much abused by a previous owner) certainly wasn't up to Juki quality. Perhaps I got a lemon, perhaps the the water and welding spark damage the previous owner did to it tipped it over the edge, perhaps they improved their quality since. However it's not something that I want to invest my money or remaining sanity into any time soon. Yes let's meet up and visit Maury. I need to go to Batchelor's next week anyway. I'll PM you my number tonight.

@Toxo, if you really want a bone/but, and at risk of being a negative Nelly... it's still a Chinese clone of the 335 (the old casting, too) and 50% higher than your initial budget! Plus I'm typically dubious about salespeople who instantly drop the price -- makes me think that the item was either overpriced to begin with or they desperately need to clear inventory. However, knowing the demographic that Tysew typically sells to, I would not be surprised if a certain "expected/automatic discount" to be built into the pricing structure so ::shrug::. Do you envisage needing the 50mm "nose" of a small cylinder machine, or would a 75mm "nose" large cylinder machine do? Large cylinders tend to have larger bobbins and 4-motion feed dogs -- there's really not much real-estate inside a small cylinder arm. Some large cylinder machines have a narrowing of the end, where you can smoosh the work into a different shape and sew very close to the edge. or a fairly small radius. Like this example Brian showed to page 1: If you do end up coming round this side of the M25 give me a shout, I'm about halfway between Konsew and Tysew. There'll be a brew and a biscuit waiting for you (and maybe, if you're lucky, a go on some of my machines...) Alternatively if you're looking for a decent dealer a bit closer to you try Maury Sewing in Bethnal Green. Old fashioned place that I've never managed to drag myself to, as I know I'd be remortgaging the cat if I did so, he gets his hands on some amazing gear that I would covet like the nerd I am. Highly recommended to me by several people who I hold in great esteem.

That sounds like a good solution. Did you cut a slot for the key?

The two JK513s I have have a 13mm shaft, which doesn't match any of the pulleys CS sells I modified a 40mm tape bore pulley by reaming it to 13mm, thinning the boss, then mounting it "backwards" on the shaft. The supplied key fits the keyways just fine, you just have to mount the motor 10mm further over to account for the offset belt groove. Oh and a drop of Loctite before tightening the nut. With a 80mm handwheel on the machine that gives 100SPM starting speed (plenty slow enough for me) and it's quite happy with the EPS/NPS. Allows me to run my Seikos at full 2200SPM too :-D

Welcome to the forum Jay. Don't apologise -- we all start from the same point, it's how you learn and then apply that knowledge that's important. I wouldn't recommend a domestic sewing machine for anything other than sewing clothes, sofa cushions, shortening curtains etc., especially if you're going to do it regularly. That's easy for me to say, with a current total of 6x industrial sewing machines, but it's still my opinion (which is worth exactly what you paid to receive it ) If it's simply an experiment to see if you enjoy leatherwork or if you're really challenged for space I'd throw my weight behind what @BellaBee suggests above and get the cheapest functional metal sewing machine you can get, like a 66K. It'll probably not last long but I learned a lot more from my 66K than the £30 it cost me. I learned plenty from pulling bits of a broken needle out of my index finger too Out of interest, where are you located?

This post should be printed out, laminated and stapled to the forehead of every Gumtree, Ebay and FB Marketplace charlatan who tries to sell a mid-century domestic sewing machine as "semi-industrial" or worse, "for leather". It's like hauling gravel in your small family car. Yeah you can probably get away with a few hundred kilos a few times but you'll get terrible mileage and something expensive will break -- the only question is when. Take that same load a couple miles down a motorway /highway or try to take a 1000Kg dumpy bag of all-in ballast hanging out the boot of your Citroen Saxo and you're going to have a bad time.

Well with a simple 2-motion feed dog the feed dog moves forwards and back in time with the needle, no up and down movement. A 4-motion feed dog drops away from the workpiece while it's moving towards you and pops up again just before the needle comes down. What's the disadvantage of a 2-motion over a 4-motion? A less positive feed and maybe more likely to mark the backside, depending on your material. Advantages? It fits within a small cylinder casting and is a bit simpler. 2-motion feed dogs work, but it depends on your expected work. There's probably over a million small-cylinder machines with 2-motion feed dogs in use around the world and I expect most of their operators don't notice the difference. But there is a difference.

It's basically a Chinese clone or at least a close copy of the Pfaff 335 so will have most of the limitations of that type (not clear what bobbins, could be original G [small] or embiggened M). I suspect it'll have a 2-motion (as opposed to superior 4-motion) feed dog. I'm not sure what the quality differences are with Typical vs. Global, if any, but being setup for leather and backed/guaranteed by a "real" dealer/technical team will be a plus.

About £120. That's about 5 miles up the road from me. Tempting, as I'm missing a small cylinder machine, however I'm quite keen to keep the ecosystem I've got with my Seikos and don't want to have to keep up with different needles, bobbins and feet. As others have said, servicing it yourself is a useful skill to learn and not that difficult (if I can do it anyone can). Conversion for flat sewing should be a fairly simple job and can be done with Chinese 335-type parts. Paypal is an expensive way of taking payments, or at least it used to be -- a lot of private sellers JCBA -- cash or BACS is less of a ballache. There will be other machines closer to you -- patience! Brian, another excellent contribution to the community! I'd be happy to supply you with similar information and photos for my Seiko LCW8 (equiv. Singer 153 and its descendants -- Adler 169, Consew 223 and CB227 I think) and Adler Kl5/Singer45K/GA-5/CB2500.

Hi Katarina, welcome to the forum. There's not a huge amount to go wrong on a 45K, and most of the timings are fixed with pins so I'm sure it won't be a difficult fix. If you could upload some videos of the problem it'll be easier to diagnose. First check is always to completely unthread the machine and start again, following the manual exactly (including the 1½ turns around the tension wheel thing). Make sure you've got the bobbin in the right way round. If that doesn't fix it put in a fresh new needle, making sure it's a 214x2, the correct size for your thread, oriented correctly (long groove to the left and the scarf to the right) and fully seated up into the needle bar. Then if /that/ doesn't work pull off the needle plate and check the timing of the shuttle hook to the needle, it should be passing through the centre of the needle scarf. If this is off you will need to adjust the height of the needle bar.

I use loop irons for this purpose. They're basically just pieces of 1/4" strap iron of specific sizes with tapered ends. Push the rivets into the loop and slip the iron into the loop, then put on the anvil and tap the rivets closed.

That would colour the edges but not smooth, harden or seal them like edge paint so it might not be the effect your after. Why not try it on a scrap of your leather and see if you like the results? Lisa Sorrel, a world class boot maker, uses Sharpies to colour the unstruck core of dyed leather on her boot uppers. The great thing about Sharpies is that they come in a bajillion different colours so you're likely going to find a matching one. I like well painted edges and think it can be just as durable as burnished veg tan edges if done well. However they can be time consuming (how many cycles of paint/dry/sand are you willing to do) and honestly depending on the item if you're using half decent leather to start with a raw edge can work just fine.

If you're happy to be patient, do some homework and take a bit of a risk you can often find good used machines well within your budget as private sales. Helps if you're mechanically minded but there's nothing too complicated inside a common industrial sewing machine. Design lineages like the Pfaff 335 and Singer 153 are very well documented and supported with parts and accessories of varying qualities. The Singer 17 family is another good small-cylinder choice, though a bit old fashioned these days, even with current-production Seiko TEs regarding features and options. I like buying "good, used" premium machines -- they tend to hold their value more than Chinese machines and you can sometimes increase their value by doing a little restoration and upgrading Otherwise you're looking at about £1200 for a new clone from a dealer in this category. Price for a "good, used" premium machine from a dealer would be similar, depending on a few factors.

For £7-800... probably nothing new. The most popular for handbags and the like would be either small-cylinder types like the Pfaff 335 or Adler 69 and their derivatives (2" nose, usually used with TKT40 thread or smaller), or larger cylinder types like the Singer 153 and its derivatives (3" nose, TKT20 thread and smaller). There are some newer designs like the Juki 246 and 341, and their clones, which blur the lines between these groups. For that sort of budget you'd be able to get a second-hand clone from a dealer, or maybe an old "premium" brand machine. Private sales can result in some real bargains but you can also buy a lemon.

That's a great setup. I have a real soft spot for 45Ks, very versatile and reliable machines.

Like Chris said, yes you will inevitably have to make a long or short stitch at some point, whether sewing by hand or machine. You just learn to plan for it and put it somewhere less noticeable like where a strap or rivet will sit. Honestly, it's hard to see even when looking for it if you've done it right, and the shorter your stitches the easier it is to hide.

If it's an induction (brushless) motor, speed control isn't practical. You can use it as the donor motor for a burnisher "as is" though. It's not ideal but it'll work.

Would a Blake insole stitcher fit? Your local shoemenders may be able to help. How are you currently sewing them? I'd rivet it myself, using single cap rivets and a 3/4" bar of steel as an anvil.

@Ferryman Just a thought re. the handle, but have you considered filling/repairing with epoxy rather than replacing? It's quite a popular technique with the tool restoration channels on Youtube and would avoid the faff of shaping, slitting and pinning a new piece of wood. You could use a contrasting colour, or even clear, to highlight the repaired sections. Either liquid stuff with a simple improvised mould or even with epoxy putty. Attached is a photo of a machine handle I restored last year. The original wood was shrunk and cracked from 100-odd years of neglect. I filled the cracks with Milliput (was supposed to be black, silly I picked the grey off the shelf). Once dry I sanded it flush and wiped some oil on the handle. So simple that even I could do it.

That's pretty commonly said but it's my experience that there is no speed that is too fast for burnishing, it's just that there are different techniques for different speeds. The important speed is the surface speed not the number of revolutions per minute. RPM is a factor in determining the surface speed but literally three times less important than wheel diameter (pi*diameter*RPM). I find that faster wheels tend to be less forgiving of mistakes than slower ones but if you have your technique dialled in they produce just as good results, and far quicker than slower ones. For me there's the added benefit of not being tempted to over-wet the edge and create mushrooming. It's also quite essential to keep the edge cool and lubricated -- after all the heat is what does most of the burnishing, but the temperature at which leather burnishes is pretty close to the temperature at which it burns. I've been using a 2" diameter wheel on a 3000RPM motor for several years now. There was a bit of a learning curve at the beginning but it works well, and fast. I use different compounds and techniques on different leathers -- veg or chrome, thin, thick, soft, hard, it all works but each works differently. As @Hildebrand says, careful and consistent control of the pressure is half the battle.