Matt S

These machines were built for round leather belting. You typically buy a length, cut to size with a knife and insert a heavy wire staple to secure. Available from most industrial sewing machine suppliers, and eBay. The modern equivalent is a textured polyurethane, which again is sold by the length. This is secured by melting and fusing the ends together, then trimming any fillet when cooled. I think it works better than leather but comes in bright colours, which look jarring on a beautifully japanned vintage machine. The good thing about round belting is that you can keep a roll on the shelf and make up whatever length you need instantly.

Welcome Larry. Having owned exactly none of the machine models you've narrowed it down to I'll butt out of that part of the discussion. However I can help a little with the thread/needle sizing. Thread and needle sizing isn't an exact science, as there are many variables which are practically unquantifiable -- exact thread diameter; thread bonding; variations in individual manufacturers' eye and groove sizes; material stickiness/griptivity; what angle you hold your tongue as you sew; they all play a part and aren't really measurable. Consider the size charts to be a good starting point and work from there -- it's not unusual to have to go up or down one or even two sizes from the "correct" needle size to get the results you want in any particular combination of thread and material. Therefore although the "usual" needle size for a V138/TKT20 thread might be nm140, nm180 would not be unheard of or "wrong" to use with this machine. What it probably means is that nm180 is the largest needle the feed-dog can pass and the needle-hook clearance is set to work with. Also, it's often the case that you can put 1 size larger thread in the needle than the bobbin, such as a 207 in the needle and 138 in the bobbin in this case. This stretches a machine right to its limit and probably isn't a good idea to do regularly without adjusting the machine specifically for this task. Could be that your dealer is just being a little conservative.

This. I believe they were used in the days before finishing machines were available. Current production: https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/glazing-iron

I've only skimmed the thread, but he has discussed at length his difficulties acquiring birch oil/tar and its semi-mysterious composition. If it's functionally equivalent, buying a 1lb can of pine tar from the local farm supply store will not only be cheaper and faster than having birch tar/oil shipped from Russia, but if he's selling his product will give him a big step towards being legitimate. I've been using the stuff on leather and wood for years. It's bloody good. Oh and "Russian" leather (or the modern reproduction thereof) is excellent. I've got about 50Kg sitting in storage. I visited the only tannery making it still and was lucky enough to see one of the curriers treating a few hides.

Forgive me not reading the entire thread, but are you absolutely tied to the birch oil? I use a 50-50 mixture of Stockholm (pine) tar and Fiebings Aussie (a dubbin with lanolin) on my workboots. Stockholm/pine tar has many of the same attributes as birch but far easier to get hold of. Most agricultural factors, saddlers and feed stores stock it, both as a tar and a liquid. Not entirely sure what the chemical difference is between the two -- could be that the latter is tar + oil, or simply a lighter range of distillation fractions.

Good find on that photo. Although we might read that as a stylised "CNK", that logo is using Cyrillic script (rather than Latin, which we use). Unfortunately I don't read Russian. Know anyone who does?

I can't find a copy of the 168W parts manual online, but the user manual shows changing the timing belt. I think it's something I would pay a professional to do. For Singer-produced machines (which both of your machines are, rather than Singer-badged Seikos or Adlers) take the serial number and look it up here: http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html

At a guess I'd say "CK", but the a quick peruse of the current CK Tools catalogue doesn't bring up anything pertinent. Could be their interpretation of a hacking knife?

That's an absolute steal at $75. Very handy machines. Good clones (legitimate descendants rather than illegitimate bas... offspring...) of them are made to this day by Seiko, which tells you something -- especially when you look at how old-fashioned the design is. Do you have a year from the serial number? I'm not convinced about the re-building/re-classing of your machine. It certainly occurred in the past. However for such a drastic change there's a lot of work involved which I would expect to have been more expensive than just buying another single-needle 17. Also Singer would have replaced the class plate in the same position rather than moved it (this has been detected by some collectors/users, sometimes with the original plate flipped and re-marked). What you're probably seeing is the ghost of an old asset or property tag from a previous owner. Anyway, speculation aside you have a great machine. Wipe it down, oil it, time it (just a needle bar height adjustment IIRC) then run it. Then run it some more.

17-21 was a two-needle machine, very different to the 17-23. Many different parts, possibly including the main castings. For all intents it would have been impossible to swap a machine between the two designs. Probably just an old thingamebob that gravitated towards the drawer from another machine. Drawers have a magnetic pull on "stuff".

College Sewing has a few sizes of Schmetz TRI point needles in class 214x2, including nm160. Not tried TRI points myself but according to Schmetz they produce a straight seam. https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=214x2

I had one. Let's just say it didn't meet my requirements for general work. Handy for repairing shoes. Not a good machine for sewing leather.

Price of a basic, new bell-skiver, made in China and setup on a table with a motor and ready to go, hovers around $/£/€1000 from a brick-and-mortar dealer. You can go cheaper if you're willing to roll the dice on drop-shipping one directly from China, in which case you may have to contend with a poorly adjusted, poorly manufactured or damaged-in-transit machine that may not meet your local safety regulations or your working needs and no recourse to the seller if it goes wrong or was miss-sold. If you're not familiar with these machines you will have an even steeper learning curve than usual because you won't know if any errors are caused by the machine or operator. I got lucky finding a vintage Fortuna a short drive away from me when I needed one, for less money than a new one, and the old boy was kind enough to teach me the basics and demonstrate that the machine worked before I loaded it into the car. I don't know what the used machinery market is like around Ontario but I've seen at least a half-dozen similar skivers go for even fewer beer tokens since then, all within a reasonable drive.

Is it possible that the main "basket" is in fact rawhide, rather than fully tanned leather? It looks pale (compare with the edge trim) for a 110-year-old piece of russet veg-tan. The description mentions it being "stiff and hard as plastic" which I would say is a closer description of rawhide than wet-formed veg-tan. I have some very limited experience of working wet rawhide (mostly soaking and flattening dog chews) but the stuff seems far more supple when wet than any tanned leather I've tried to wet-form.

AKA "Swedish nut lathe" or "Chinese nut f***er", depending on the origin of your preferred fastener-rounding tool. Your countryman Ron Edwards depicted a way of cutting the top off an oil drum using one of the old-fashioned F-shaped adjustable spanners and a hammer. "Crude, noisy and slow... but effective." I spose, though, a chap could drive a punch, a stamp or a saddle nail with a stilly, or even the millwrong's favourite friend...

The TS boy glue bottles I use have a little brush that sits in the glue. I put them in a jar of solvent overnight to keep them clean. They also slow the escape of solvents into my workspace. https://www.algeos.com/ts-boy.html If you mean the little glue spreaders like kids use for "art" projects I expect you get them at Wilko, Amazon, Rymans, anywhere that sugar paper and glitter glue are sold.

I use carbide burrs to "drill" out rivets, once a starter hole is established with a centre punch. I find that at certain angles they bite but don't force the rivet to turn, which is usually what happens when using a twist drill..

Glue.

Your ball-point needles probably won't work too well on leather. If you have some round/normal points they may work to a limited extent but leather-point needles will be best, which have tiny cutting edges ground on them. I like LR/right twist but there are various others. For a wallet you'll want TKT40/V69 up to TKT20/V138 thread. You can go down or up a little from there but I wouldn't recommend it. Nylon or poly.

Which one kaint you take? There's probably a few hundred local accents in Britain, several distinct British languages, and many regional dialects, though as Mike says a lot of them are disappearing fast. Here's a fair imitation of but 17 accents: Legend has it, until the massive social changes of the 1960s, locals in high-population-density areas like London's East End could tell to within a street or two where someone had grown up just by their accent. Even today people from a region can tell a difference between people from adjoining cities, and non-locals can often tell which bit of each county the speaker's from.

Very interesting, Folker. I'm very glad the buildings are still in use. I find it interesting that Singer set up major factories in at least three different locations (Germany, Scotland, US) and were producing largely the same models in each of those locations. I wonder if demand simply outstripped supply for a long time, or if there was enough of a cost savings (shipping, tariffs) that it was worth building such large and expensive factories?

Renia Aquilim 315. Made in Germany I believe. It sticks well, except for wet or greasy leather. Water based, no fumes.

For a little background, Cowboy makes clones of popular machines in China. Quality is apparently good but not quite the level of premium manufacturers such as Juki, Pfaff and Durkopp Adler. Juki came out with the 341 several years ago. Then they replaced it with the 1341, which was essentially the 341 but with more added better. Even the 1341 is now discontinued. Therefore the CB341 is a clone of a two-generations-superceded machine. Not to say it's not suitable for your purposes but if you're trying to make money out of this, it may be worth your while getting the best, most suitable machine for your purposes. What are you intending to sew, BTW? It's hard to make suggestions without a specific idea of what you want to do, and in what volume.

Yeah I don't understand that whole "not shorts, just trousers that aren't long enough" thing. Call me old fashioned, but I wear trousers that touch the top of my boots. And if it's hot enough for shorts, or I'm doing something involving lots of water or mud, shorts means "short" i.e just long enough to not get arrested. The sort of shorts that wouldn't look out of place on a chap patrolling the southern African bush wearing just them, some webbing and a G3. Oh right, belts. I recommend 1.5" for most jeans and chinos, narrower for smarter trousers and wider for cargos/combats. Stock belts are 1" and 1.5" wide, but I've done them as narrow as 0.5" for commissions. 1" or 0.75" were popular before the 1970s for men's slacks -- think high waisted Oxford bags, or Joe Friday boring a criminal into submission.

In a word, no. That machine would be great for lighter stuff like purses, wallets, watch straps and such but nothing with a thread any heavier than v138/tkt20 or a total thickness of around 8mm/5/16". Maybe a bit less. But not holsters. Looks like it was setup for binding tasks. Could do with a new arm cover, beehive spring and screw, plus swap out the presser feet and needle plate before it could be used for regular sewing.