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Another question on this machine, since there is mention of guides here, does anyone know whether the guides for a 441 clone will fit the Seiko? Thanks.

Wiz: Thank you for that great explanation, it's great to have that context to go with the pictures.

Just to confirm, you're saying the Highlead feet are the same as the other 441 clones, and only the Seiko is the odd one out. I don't have another 441 to compare to, so apologies if this is a dumb question; would it be feasible to have replacement needle bar and presser foot bars machined up to take 441 feet, or is the spacing completely different? I will. The fellow who has it is a well respected industrial machine mechanic locally, so I'll be getting him to walk me all through the machine before I hand over any money. There is an element of risk because it is head-only, so I can't see it sewing until I set it up, but for the price I'm willing to wear that if I can get feet that will do the job for me. Thanks.

Bruce, thanks for that reply. Regardless of what flavour machine I end up with that really helps. Cheers.

Thanks for the heads-up. Can you tell me the difference between the Seiko feet and the other 441 clones? Does the Highlead take the same feet as other clones, and are the needle plates & feed dogs different too? Is it just the attachment point, or is the whole arrangement of needle bar and presser foot bar different on the Seiko to others? This particular Seiko is far cheaper (almost 2/3 less) than importing a clone will be which is why I'm interested in it, but that doesn't really help if it can't be made to do what I want. Cheers.

There's a lot of discussion on here about the maximum thickness various machines will sew. Something I'm trying to work out is what the practical minimum thickness a threaded-needle machine will sew well without major adjustments (i.e, not more than top/bottom tension). I'm interested in the general case, if such a thing is possible to establish, but the specific case is whether for someone who is space constrained, a 441 clone will go down the scale far enough to do most of the same kinds of jobs with belts etc as my flat-bed STH-8 will (same as a Consew 206). I'm unlikely to be sewing anything smaller than, say, 69 thread Thanks.

Greetings all, My search for a cylinder arm heavy stitcher is nearing its end with the discovery that the local Highlead importer has a second-hand Seiko CH-8B head in his warehouse. I haven't laid eyes on it yet but if it's in decent nick I'll buy it. Working on the assumption that it will come set up for fabric, not leather, I'm going to need to get some feet, plates & feed dogs for it. I plan on using the machine for sheaths, cases, jacks, general heavy sewing and things where I need a needle right up at the end of the arm. I have a bunch of questions about what I should get. Sadly "one of everything" isn't an option because I need money left over to build a pedestal stand and get a motor. What the difference between the slotted needle plate v.s. smooth feed dogs is in terms of the kind of work they are used for; do I need both? I want to be able to use this for case work so I'm going to get a right-toe foot. Should I also get a holster or stirrup plate for this sort of work, and if so, which? What tasks are left-toe feet useful for? Does anyone know of inline feet for this class of machine? Neither Cobra nor Toledo Industrial have them. How important/useful is it to have a lube pot for sewing leather with this type of machine using bonded poly thread, and what's the best stuff to put in one? Thanks.

For a machine in this range, you might want to look for something with a roller foot. 1" = 25.4mm Attached is a spreadsheet (libreoffice .odf format, zipped) and a PDF of conversions in 64ths of an inch (a leatherworker's "oz") to mm and in 48ths of an inch (a leatherworker's "iron") to mm with common thicknesses highlighed and noted for easier visual searching. Leather Thickness Conversion.pdf Leather Thickness Conversion.ods.zip

I haven't even gotten into building much yet and I'm already getting annoyed with the machines I have that lack reverse (except for my #6, which you can have when you pry it out of my cold, dead, hands :D ) Wiz: Is that machine a descendent of the Singer 111, and therefore similar to the Seiko STH-8 / Consew 206R, or a completely different class of machine? (I love your bobbin rack, btw) Cheers.

I haven't gotten that far with my machine yet; I've also been distracted by other projects (moving house, twice, and now trying to fix other machines to make space) so it's been sitting in the corner doing nothing for ages waiting for me to order parts for it. I will eventually put some information about it up on my website. What's really frustrating is that I can't even sew with it because the needle clamp screws are damaged so it won't hold a needle when stitching through more than about 4mm of leather, and it's missing the spring that holds the tension on the foot lifting toggle, so the foot doesn't lift properly. Once I have the parts, I will get it running properly, then strip it completely and start a cosmetic restoration. I haven't been able to get the idea of fully restoring it out of my head since seeing pictures of Peter Main's amazingly restored machine (and the wife acceptance factor goes up quite a bit if it looks less like a rusted hulk in the corner ) When it came to me the machine had been sitting in a shed for about 20 years, it was dry, but very dirty. Nothing you won't have seen with your one though. I have most of an original bobbin winder for it too, acquired separately, and am working on patterns to get the missing wax pot cast up. Frustratingly my machine has the remnants of a hot waxing apparatus - of a different model to yours - which is something I really want to get and restore, but I doubt I'll ever find at a price I can afford. I now have a top wax pot for it too, but that is missing a bunch of the internal parts which I'll need to get made.

I can't help with hints on where to get it serviced, but these are good machines. Yours is certainly in excellent cosmetic condition by the looks of things. Did it come with a manual and parts list? If not, get a manual for it and try to find a parts list. It really does help to be familiar with what goes where. At the very least, you will need to understand how to oil the machine and how to clean it. The first thing you should do is go and read Wiz' thread on the type of machine you need to sew leather then read up on the technical specifications of this particular machine to get a feel for what it will and won't do. Every machine has it's upper and lower limits of what it will sew, and every feed mechanism has its advantages and disadvantages, none absolutely better than any other, but all designed for different applications. In case you haven't got that information already, these use a system 135x17 needle for textiles or 135x16 for leather. Have a read of this PDF from Groz-Beckert describing the different point types for sewing leather Schmetz have recently redone their website and have a lot of useful information there too. Look at http://schmetz.com/en/products/industrial-sewing/leather/special-features/ for info about point types for leather and textile, and at http://schmetz.com/en/products/industrial-sewing/leather/product-range/for the available system/point-type/size combinations available. It's very useful to understand the point types and codes, which are different between manufacturers but Groz-Beckert and Schmetz are the two major manufacturers of high-quality needles. Absolutely get a knee or foot lift, they are invaluable. I've got long legs that don't fit too well under a K-frame stand, so I prefer a foot pedal lift that pulls a chain that is attached to the end of the lifter bar on the back of the machine, but if you don't have long legs knee lifts are good too. A 206 like yours will sew leather, but it almost certainly isn't set up for it 'out of the box' these are really upholstery machines, designed to sew at quite high speed - 1500-3000 stitches/min, which is quite literally 10 times faster than the absolute max speed you want to run this thing at for short runs of anything more than 3-4 layers of upholstery leather under the foot. You can often get a good idea of the speed a machine is designed to run at by looking at the size of the wheel on the end of the head. Smaller = higher speed, bigger = lower speed. Really heavy stitchers have gigantic wheels on them. So, you've got a decent brand and model of machine, but to sew leather there are a couple of things you'll probably want to do. At the very least, get a servo motor and speed reducer to slow the machine down, then find somewhere to get smooth feet for sewing leather and a smooth needle plate (the half-round plate under the foot). One way to run these machines is by taking the feed dog out and replacing the needle plate with one that just has a narrow slot in it, but you can also try and find a smooth feed dog. You may need to adapt existing parts, or have a machinist make up a needle plate for you. Toothed feed dogs and feet will mark up the leather you're sewing. You will also eventually find things that can't be sewn on a flat-bed machine, which is when you'll start looking at post bed or cylinder arm machines, or both. Then you will start trying to figure out ways to either stack them, or build a tardis to keep them in

I really hope that's not still the case! There are some parts I desperately need to get my #6 going and I'm about to put a reasonably significant parts order in with them. I did email John Leighton who said they only manufacture parts for #6s they are rebuilding in-shop, not for resale, and Henry Veenhoven who I believe supplied some parts to Aaron Martin but I haven't heard back from Henry. I'm not aware of any other sources for replacement parts for the #6. At least you can still get Union Lock parts from Campbell-Randall.

Wiz, www.mcmaster.com is a complete pain to link to directly but put "Drive Belt" into the search box then follow the links for "Round Belts" > "Solid Core" > "Belting" (Under Form) You can get various sizes of V-belt from there too, as well as adjustable length belting that comes in links. I hope that helps.

Wiz, you might have better luck with the small-diameter hollow urethane tubing from McMaster Carr. I use it on my treadle machines. It's more flexible than leather and has a bit of tack to it that helps it grip the pulleys.

When I saw this I thought about how I'd do it, and figured as I'd pull the patcher off the stand, install a plate between the patcher and the stand sticking out the back and bolt the motor to that. From there you could rig an extension from the pittman of the stand's existing pedal to the motor control, and it's all totally reversible if you ever want to take the motor off again. You'd need to be a bit careful about the size of motor you chose though, a full-size industrial job might be too heavy, but from the looks of the ones Wiz posted pics of you don't need a big motor to drive a patcher.

I use a glass shelf from the bathroom section of the hardware store.

Can someone explain to the Americanly-challenged what a "BBQ Rig" is? I'm assuming it's another term for an off-duty rig?

If you remove the two screws from the needle clamp completely, the front plate comes off. My plan was to make a part that replaced that front plate and was held on by the original screws so it didn't require any permanent modification of the machine at all.

I toyed with the idea of having a new needle bar made to fit 794 system needles, but it's not a cheap bit of machining for me to get done and there are issues with the stroke length that mean you wouldn't be able to sew really thick stuff. I plan on making a small adapter that bolts on where the needle clamp is and has a small projecting tube to take 794 needles, just to see how it works.

http://www.stapleheadquarters.com/neva-clog-staples.html Might help

Thank you for the pictures of the back. Is the waxing apparatus electrically heated? Interesting modification to the needle, what did you do to it?

It does, thank you.

Purely out of curiosity - since I don't and probably never will carry a sidearm - can you tell me what the rationale was for placing the "X" up at the base of the neck rather than down between the shoulder blades? Thanks.

If there are two brushes, and you swap the brush casings (and therefore the wiring, and polarity relative to the field coils) then the motor will run backwards.

What thickness of leather are you using? If you've got reasonably stiff thick leather for the base just cut circles out and sew them in flesh-edge through the base