amuckart

Do you have more photos of the roller guide on your machine? I like the style that swings down a whole lot more than the ones that bolt on next to the needle plate, but I've never seen one on a 441 before. Cheers.

Do you need a cylinder arm or a flat bed machine for the harnesses you're making? When you say "fairly thick" what do you mean, 1/2"? 3/4"? 1-1/2"? For *serious* heavy duty stuff, you want a 7-class machine using SM x1000 needles.

The key to storing almost any natural oil, neatsfoot, cod liver, or olive, is to store it sealed and in the dark. UV does more bad things to it than warmth.

Has anyone tried cod liver oil? It's a bit smellier than olive oil while it's oxidising but chemically it's supposed to be the best thing for veg tan.

Chris, Firstly let me say a public thank you for the great service I got on my recent order. They arrived today and they're both beautiful and fantastic to use. Secondly, sorry for adding to the backlog, but I couldn't read this without getting one an order in for the "holster maker's special". Enjoy your time with your daughter.

Thanks all, I appreciate the info.

I've read quite a few threads on Adler 205-370s and figure they're the ne plus ultra of machines in their class, but I'm curious about the clones. Most manufacturers seem to have gone with 441 clones except for Cowboy/Hightex who make both 441 and 205 clones. is there a particular reason for that? The only difference I can spot on spec is that the 441s will do a couple more mm than the 205s and the 205s are a bit more finnicky to time and set the hook than the 441s. Either will probably be an excellent machine for what I want to do but I'd be interested in whether there's much in the way of practical difference between a 441 clone and a 205 clone. For me, the extra couple of mm of capacity isn't a major thing since I have a No.6 for the really big stuff. Thanks.

This is an old thread, I'm mostly chucking this in here for the sake of the search function, the Seiko equivalent of this machine is the CH-8B. Campbell-Bosworth have feet and parts for them.

A question about converting between different thread size formats. What does a "V" in the front of the number signify? I rang a local supplier here about bonded polyester and the sizes they quoted me were V69 - V207. Thanks.

I saw Dan at Campbell-Randall mention that he had feet for this machine in another thread on the board so I rang him this morning during the brief window when I'm awake and he's at work. The Seiko-fitting feet and plates aren't significantly more expensive than the 441 ones, so there is a source for them. Of course, that done, I've eyeballed the machine and found it's not in very good nick, so it might be back to square one. We'll see.

For veg tan leather you can't go past cod liver oil and tallow, it's the traditional currier's formula.

The parts diagram [PDF] is linked off of Shoe Systems Plus' 5-in-1 parts page there's also a parts list. Hmm, I have a Dania clone of the 5-in-1 I really should finish putting back together again someday....

This is all down to the motor, which is really a separate part. The machine itself will operate at as low a speed as you want to drive it. Upholsterers set them up with fast motors to work fast for long runs, but they'll work well driven slowly by a servo and/or speed reducer too. What you do need to make sure of when driving them at low speed is that there is enough friction in the drive belt to transmit the torque to the motor. Without the inertia of the motor and machine operating at speed you can lose punching power if the belt slips.

I now see the misapprehension I was working under. I thought the CH-8 was a 441 clone with quirks, I hadn't realised that it was a completely different machine. Thank you all for your help, especially Bob & Wiz who've both spent a bit of time answering my queries on this machine. For the cost of the head (and the fact that I don't have to tack on 30% in duties like I would for an imported machine) it might well be worth my money to buy it and get custom feet made, but I'll see what that costs and go from there.

Thank you both.

Another question on this machine, since there is mention of guides here, does anyone know whether the guides for a 441 clone will fit the Seiko? Thanks.

Wiz: Thank you for that great explanation, it's great to have that context to go with the pictures.

Just to confirm, you're saying the Highlead feet are the same as the other 441 clones, and only the Seiko is the odd one out. I don't have another 441 to compare to, so apologies if this is a dumb question; would it be feasible to have replacement needle bar and presser foot bars machined up to take 441 feet, or is the spacing completely different? I will. The fellow who has it is a well respected industrial machine mechanic locally, so I'll be getting him to walk me all through the machine before I hand over any money. There is an element of risk because it is head-only, so I can't see it sewing until I set it up, but for the price I'm willing to wear that if I can get feet that will do the job for me. Thanks.

Bruce, thanks for that reply. Regardless of what flavour machine I end up with that really helps. Cheers.

Thanks for the heads-up. Can you tell me the difference between the Seiko feet and the other 441 clones? Does the Highlead take the same feet as other clones, and are the needle plates & feed dogs different too? Is it just the attachment point, or is the whole arrangement of needle bar and presser foot bar different on the Seiko to others? This particular Seiko is far cheaper (almost 2/3 less) than importing a clone will be which is why I'm interested in it, but that doesn't really help if it can't be made to do what I want. Cheers.

There's a lot of discussion on here about the maximum thickness various machines will sew. Something I'm trying to work out is what the practical minimum thickness a threaded-needle machine will sew well without major adjustments (i.e, not more than top/bottom tension). I'm interested in the general case, if such a thing is possible to establish, but the specific case is whether for someone who is space constrained, a 441 clone will go down the scale far enough to do most of the same kinds of jobs with belts etc as my flat-bed STH-8 will (same as a Consew 206). I'm unlikely to be sewing anything smaller than, say, 69 thread Thanks.

Greetings all, My search for a cylinder arm heavy stitcher is nearing its end with the discovery that the local Highlead importer has a second-hand Seiko CH-8B head in his warehouse. I haven't laid eyes on it yet but if it's in decent nick I'll buy it. Working on the assumption that it will come set up for fabric, not leather, I'm going to need to get some feet, plates & feed dogs for it. I plan on using the machine for sheaths, cases, jacks, general heavy sewing and things where I need a needle right up at the end of the arm. I have a bunch of questions about what I should get. Sadly "one of everything" isn't an option because I need money left over to build a pedestal stand and get a motor. What the difference between the slotted needle plate v.s. smooth feed dogs is in terms of the kind of work they are used for; do I need both? I want to be able to use this for case work so I'm going to get a right-toe foot. Should I also get a holster or stirrup plate for this sort of work, and if so, which? What tasks are left-toe feet useful for? Does anyone know of inline feet for this class of machine? Neither Cobra nor Toledo Industrial have them. How important/useful is it to have a lube pot for sewing leather with this type of machine using bonded poly thread, and what's the best stuff to put in one? Thanks.

For a machine in this range, you might want to look for something with a roller foot. 1" = 25.4mm Attached is a spreadsheet (libreoffice .odf format, zipped) and a PDF of conversions in 64ths of an inch (a leatherworker's "oz") to mm and in 48ths of an inch (a leatherworker's "iron") to mm with common thicknesses highlighed and noted for easier visual searching. Leather Thickness Conversion.pdf Leather Thickness Conversion.ods.zip

I haven't even gotten into building much yet and I'm already getting annoyed with the machines I have that lack reverse (except for my #6, which you can have when you pry it out of my cold, dead, hands :D ) Wiz: Is that machine a descendent of the Singer 111, and therefore similar to the Seiko STH-8 / Consew 206R, or a completely different class of machine? (I love your bobbin rack, btw) Cheers.

I haven't gotten that far with my machine yet; I've also been distracted by other projects (moving house, twice, and now trying to fix other machines to make space) so it's been sitting in the corner doing nothing for ages waiting for me to order parts for it. I will eventually put some information about it up on my website. What's really frustrating is that I can't even sew with it because the needle clamp screws are damaged so it won't hold a needle when stitching through more than about 4mm of leather, and it's missing the spring that holds the tension on the foot lifting toggle, so the foot doesn't lift properly. Once I have the parts, I will get it running properly, then strip it completely and start a cosmetic restoration. I haven't been able to get the idea of fully restoring it out of my head since seeing pictures of Peter Main's amazingly restored machine (and the wife acceptance factor goes up quite a bit if it looks less like a rusted hulk in the corner ) When it came to me the machine had been sitting in a shed for about 20 years, it was dry, but very dirty. Nothing you won't have seen with your one though. I have most of an original bobbin winder for it too, acquired separately, and am working on patterns to get the missing wax pot cast up. Frustratingly my machine has the remnants of a hot waxing apparatus - of a different model to yours - which is something I really want to get and restore, but I doubt I'll ever find at a price I can afford. I now have a top wax pot for it too, but that is missing a bunch of the internal parts which I'll need to get made.