Billsotx

Boom, like your web. Good stuff there. John D. was referring to Jeff Cooper and Bruce Nelson. Unfortunately I wasn't smart enough to talk to Bruce about leather work. When we talked we were young and I was dumb. I'd been making holsters before that, but our communications were about work and shooting. He was a narc and I was a K9 cop and we were a thousand miles apart. We were both engrossed in The Modern Technique and had law enforcement in common. We were both learning to teach and Bruce was Cooper's first ops guy when Jeff opened API a.k.a. Gunsite. We later had a common thread there, in that I was a staff guy at Thunder Ranch Texas, and the director, Clint Smith of TRT, was also one of Jeff Cooper's former ops guys. Nelson and Smith were close friends. I learned a lot about gun leather at TRT because we saw everything you could imagine come across that ranges. Students brought the good, the bad and the ugly. Oh, how one learns! Nelson was a strong influence on the modern holster, but so was Milt Sparks and now Tony Kanaley - www.miltsparks.com. One aspires to meet the standard set by those three. I met Tony at TRT but I never discussed gun leather with him - just never had time for that. I've seen plenty of his work - there's none better. TRT was all about shooting, and Tony, a real shooter, took several classes up there; they sold his gun leather in their pro shop. The ten years I was there I did watch gun leather. That place was a proving ground without equal. I saw a lot and I made notes - what worked and what didn't. I got nothing in it - but if it's stamped Milt Sparks, Idaho - it works. I talk to John Bianchi every once in a while, and we have talked gun leather - mostly about making tools. He talks freely and he teaches gun leather. He's forgot more about leather than I'll ever know. Bruce Nelson studied under John so there's another connection there too - a small world. Another old timer I speak with often and we do talk gun leather, is Thad Rybka. TR taught at TRT also and that's where I met him, but I knew his gun leather from early on - top notch! You can seen Chic Gaylord's design in TR's work and he makes no bones about Gaylord having influenced him, along with Nelson his peer. Getting back to where this thread began, there's always something overlooked: another little touch you can do - after molding, gently pull the gun out of the holster, don't just rip it out, go gently so as not to distort what you worked so hard to form, then gently and ever so carefully squeeze the leather back into place. In the end you'll have a nice tight fit. A holster starts to stretch the first time you put a gun in it and it eventually becomes too loose. At that point it should be retired, but most folks keep using them long after their service life; they don't want to spend money. I'd ask, "What's your life worth?" Bruce Nelson once said that a holster's life is about 5 years, and my practical experience is just that - 5 or 6 years. Of course that all depends on use, and Bruce said that too. And we talked about the other extreme which we see all too often - trash gun leather. A guy or gal spends $2,000.00 on a custom pistol and then shoves it in a $20.00 holster - usually a nylon bag - Go figure! - I don't get it. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir and I'll get off my soap box and back to leather. Let's keep this thread running on and learn - "how to make & how to mold holsters". I know I've got a lot to learn and this is one place to do that.

Welcome John! Good to see you hear. Our knowledge base grows in leaps and bounds. You're right! They're probably spinning in their graves. Shame on me. I know better. Assume nothing - Check for clear! John's right-on safety wise: "All guns are loaded!" Treat 'em that way. The four rules apply, even in a fight. If you shoot yourself you defeat your purpose.

I follow about the same procedure as Randy listed, but I do all my molding by hand; that is with hand tools - antlers and the handles of awls; sometimes a whatever laying there on the bench looks right so I use it. This entire rig (attached) is 8 oz., belt liner split to about 4 oz., the pouches are eight. Don't expect to get fine detail from the heavier weights of leather. As far as your molding and details. Most folks start working their leather way too soon; they're pushing lots of water and getting wrinkles and stretch marks. Case your leather and watch for it to dry to the point it is just turning back to it's natural color, then start your molding process. Don't rush, the leather is still plenty wet inside, take your time. Watch to see if you're pushing water, you don't want that in hand molding. I don't know about using a press. If you're pushing water, stop and wait another 20 to 30 minutes and start again. Humidity makes this variable and there's all kinds of voodoo so keep notes. Leather ain't leather. The four holsters in the pix were all cut adjacently from the same side and I felt differences as I worked them. They're for different N-frame revolvers if you're wondering why the moldings are different. The customer couldn't send his four guns and I didn't have the exact models in some cases so I went easy on the details in that case. If you're molding flesh out, which I mostly do, watch the inside - the grain side - for the color change, it's easier to gauge the casing on the grain side. Don't expect leather from different tanners to work the same. Expect water from different regions to case differently. I have access to both soft and hard water and there's a big difference in casing. That old saw - "They all the same but different!" - applies to leathercraft. I use real guns if I have them. I don't stick them in plastic bags because I want an exact fit. I want 'em as tight as Dick's hat band when they dry. After 48 hrs. I spray them thoroughly with silicone spray and put the gun in the holster to set over night, then remove the gun and let dry another 24 hrs. The holster almost spits them out after that process. Break-in is smooth. As far as casing, if you wait until the point I described above, you will not find moisture on the gun when you remove it after molding. If doubt this, shove it in the holster and immediately pull it out. It'll be dry. If it's not you're working too wet. That said, clean the gun when you done; wipe it down good. You'll have blue marks inside the holster. You'll have them eventually if you use it, unless you dye it. If the customer doesn't like that, he doesn't want what I do. There's lots of holster makers and I'm kind of set in my ways. Randy gave you all the secrets except one - repetition - you'll probably have to make a few before you're happy. Repetition is the mother of skill! Good luck and let us see your new holster when you're done.

tan kote is a finish by Fiebings: http://www.german-shoerepair.com/00224.html

Both are cool rigs. What is and where did you get the hardware for the swivel? I used to get large aluminum rivets from a guy in the aircraft business but lost track of that source.

Keep us informed. I'd be interested to know what Peter charges so I'd know how many I'd have to get to sign up to pay all the expenses.

Randy, if you put a t-nut under the mouth band and then attach the male side of the snap with a bugle head screw, also letting that attach and secure your belt loops, you will be able to change from narrower to wider belt loops. Like Art says round the corners so they don't get beat all to heck and detract after you get some miles on the piece. Thanks for sharing ideas, we're all learning ....

Use a piece of 6 oz veg tan stitched or riveted to the scabbard, line it with orthopedic elk or similar so it'll cling and sandwich a piece of galvanized gutter flashing between the two pieces of leather. You can then set a slight curve to her hip in the flashing. Hope this makes since.

Seems to be fixed now. Those two boxes about Disable ...(stuff) got unchecked somehow. The things been goofy since I downloaded that command thing that messed up c-Panel. I come back here if I have more problems. I try to get back to TH in a couple of days. I'm researching how to use this new commandftp thing. Beginning to wonder if it's jinxed ... lol!

Back to IE Script Error Windows and Yes or No does nothing except a white screen. If anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it.

I saw the TH; many thanks. I researching the FTP thing because that's how I messed it up. My IE is 7.0.5730.11 and that tester show JavaVersion 1.1.4 from MS Corp. That "use Java version" was ticked to I unticked , hope that's right, and restarted and "I think" it's ok. (Biggest problem was I couldn't get gmail at all. I happened to remember I had Opera so was able to get to gmail to check there. Anyway, in IE I probably messed (ticked and unticked) with more than I should have but it seems to be working now. I had previously copied and saved that list you put here way back, on how to clean-up hard drive and I've been working my way through that and that may have been what helped. I'll let you know if I have more problems with IE here. Hope to get back to TH later. Received a couple of "Where it go?" emails, which is encouraging. Don't know the one but may be they'll come back and check. Again thanks. Bill

I was getting pop-up windows re: Java Script ... do you want to run ... Yes or No? Both choices brought a endless searching white screen on my browser IE. I remembered we did something in Tools. While I was there looking around I turned off the pop-up blocker and now get: JavaScript must be enabled in order for you to use Gmail in standard view. However, it seems JavaScript is either disabled or not supported by your browser. To use standard view, enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, then try again. To use Gmail's basic HTML view, which does not require JavaScript, click here. If you want to view Gmail on a mobile phone or similar device click here. Under Tools > Internet Options > Advanced ... we did something there before but I'm not sure what it was. There's a couple of things re: Java and I unclicked "Disable script debugging ~ IE ... but that didn't resolve the problem. Thanks in advance for any replies and helping me again.

I agree with Steve. Haste makes waste. The Boss ain't for everyone but it work for my small world. There's a learning curve, already mentioned. Takes patience and phone calls. It has limitations, also mentioned. I never use the flatbed because it interferes with what I do. Like hand-stitchin', the more you use it the better you get. I don't just jerk the handle. I work the lever and feel it through, don't just lean on it. It'll stitch 3/4 inch down to 1/4 inch and I never reset it. To do thinner stuff I hand-stitch 'cause it won't do that without readjustment and it ain't worth it, but I don't do much thin stuff. Wish I had another like Steve ... best of all worlds there. All this stuff is Boss stitched. Even the backside (last pix) don't look too shabby in my opinion. Looks like a machine did it. Ain't as pretty as a hand-stitch but it a bit quicker, and nowhere near fast. If fast matters don't get a Boss. Hand stitching let's my mind wonder too much; I don't have time for that on the Boss because I gotta keep wondering where all my gear's at ... still got all my fingers . . . lol ... and NO! I ain't done that yet and I don't wanna ~ knock-on-wood! Look, think, pull. You ain't sure of your target, get your hand off the lever See y'all down the trail .....

I think he's looking for something like this. The only ones I've seen are made of kydex and are hand made by the individual. I haven't seen them from the commercial supplier. I haven't seen them out of stainless either, but that would be cool. Mortar man if this is the animal you're looking for, your best bet is probably get some kydex, a heat gun, tin-sips, drill, file and sandpaper and fab your own. I haven't seen them except as replacement from the guys that are using them on holsters and they want about eight bucks for one. I'd like to see them in stainless, which we could cover with leather - just because we can. Maybe the pix will jar someone's memory if it's what you're looking for. Semper Fi!

Figured it out. I used a link in an email from a subscription ... dah! Works ok when I sign on straight from a book mark in my browser. Day wasn't wasted because I already learned something new. Thanks for heads-up on email Jo ... watching for ya!

When you go into a specific forum you can't get back to the main forum using the Back Button on the browser like you used to. That may be better, but it's different. Not complaining, just letting you know. I've only tried it in IE so far.

Visit here

A piece of whitetail antler Ed and an aluminum rod rounded on the ends. I've got a dozen or so pieces of antler on the bench with different configurations cut, filed and sanded to shape. Don't know where you live but there'll be drops galore in you've got time to comb the pastures. They're early this year. We were shooting one horned bucks and antler-less trophy bucks on New Year's Day. Gee boss ... you said shoot all the antler-less whitetails I want ... lol! Beezachopper, the rough-out rig, in HO parlance "mossback", was a staff trade mark at Thunder Ranch Texas. Not sure who started it, but I think, Thad Rybka. I just carried it on after they move to the northwest. Sort of an addiction like Leatherworker.net ... lol!

#1 is WC cowhide with a brit tan split, #2 (black) is horsehide, #3 is HO cow, the mouth bands are horsehide. I'm queer for rough-out cowhide and so are most who commission my stuff.

Xmas presents that Santa delivered to the M T pockets of some of my old collegues. Johanna, glad we have our sanity back. Good job! Happy New Year to you and your heros. Clay told me y'all were burning the night oil, so I just laid low. Looks like the profile thing works ok. I'll head off to surf around. 'til later, ~Bill

Looks cool Grunt!

Got it!! Thanks, Bruce

Bruce, Not to hi-jack this thread, but along these lines. When you have time, if you still have your illustration of how to run a rope border, using your partial rope border tool, would you post that. Maybe start another thread. I had that from the iilg, but lost it in a crash & burn. I was going to ask off list but others might appreciate it to. Thanks for all the learnin' your sharin' with us. I bet it's white in Pickle Meadows. Glad I'm not up on that glacier ... brrrrrr 'til later, ~Bill

Chuck Smith has sets of bars - starts with the 1 dot - email: olsmoothie@sbcglobal.com - his web was down when I looked: Bars Also for more suppliers: http://www.leatherworker.net/suppliers.htm

It sounds like you'vd written it off, so try to remove the spot with rubbing alcohol and see what happens.