Matty

I use different manufacturers bellies. I got a circular clicker die and I cut circles, moisten them (do not soak) and stretch them on a mold of my own making, where they dry. They usually become the ends of bottoms of small bags. Saves a wicked amount of time with the die and money with the leather. Only drawback is buying direct you need to (usually) buy a lot, and then shipping might kill you.

Adler H-Type 969 pure/eco/classic takes system 794 (standard) or system 1000H.

Last time I looked they're not where they used to be unless they're still there and there's a different name on the building.

W&C appear to be temperamental. If you got them on a good day they might have said "sure thing!" The reason why they might not is because belly is stretchier, and its removed from the bends and shoulders before the final finishings.

I recently (within the last month) bought 10 horse butt strips direct from Tannery Row, with extortionate shipping. For what it weighed, from Chicago to where I am, that weight cost $28 UPS ground. I paid additional $69 shipping for $28 worth of shipping. Now, at the same time I also bought 20 "narrow, hard" strips from Maverick, I got a great discount for buying so many, super shipping, and comparing them to what I got from TR, they average the same width and length and thickness wise, and are in much better shape. One of the strips I got from TR is splitting/cracking like cardboard. My advice: Ignore the tannery row. Get your leather elsewhere. Even Wicket & Craig have something on their site about using polyurethane in the finish? Ha!

The beveller I have is a #4 and it has a groove on both top and bottom sides. How do I sharpen that? Oh wait. a strip of leatha with some rouge applied, right????

got any left?

Practice with some vinyl. Check out this place: http://www.fabricdirect.com/acatalog/solid-vinyl-II-black.html They're selling "Vinyl II" (not quite sure exactly what the "II" is for) for $3.99 / yd. The stuff is 54" wide, BUT you have to buy a whole 50yd roll, and at 32oz to the yard (that's 32oz WEIGHT, which I believe is sort of equal to 3-4oz leather THICKNESS??? Sorry if that's not totally correct) that roll is going to weigh about 100lbs and cost about $200, not including shipping and the cost of 100lbs shipping is going to be considerable. But, when you think about it, you could easily spend $200+ for just a little bit of leather. So, with all that vinyl, you, and lots of other people could practice like crazy. Ah, sorry, just realized you're in the UK. BUT I'm sure you could find a vinyl supplier somewhere there and you probably won't have to buy 50yds of it. Unless, of course, you want to buy that much. Vinyl might not stretch exactly like leather, but it flops and drapes just like it. And in the long run it would be cheaper to practice with it before you try the real thing, just like a silversmith starts out working with copper or pewter before moving on to silver. Good luck.

How BIG were the bellies you got from them? I was asking linda about them, and she ended up screaming at me in email saying "our bellies are definitely NOT.........." I know they're not as "wide" as I wanted, but that was a real turn off. Just thought I'd ask, since I was thinking about buying some of what you bought. All I needed was a square foot or two. I know bellies are irregularly shaped.

What I meant was, the picture I found at Zak's said these bellies were 7-9sf and judging from that, it means that the larger one in the picture should have several square feet of material, at least, through the center. So, I was going straight to the tannery, thinking that that's where the stuff comes from, right? Yea, I know that no every tannery produces the same stuff the same way or even the same stuff the same way every time. W&C was quick to scream at me, after the y requested and I told them that I was looking for something like this, with perhaps 2 or 3 sf clear in the center, that "our bellies are NOT....... I guess we can't help you, Thanks."

Fantastic that I stumbled upon the very subject I was looking for. I've been going back and forth over the past couple of days with W&C asking about their bellies they have listed on overstock. I was asking for a few of the largest (widest) ones they had, in either English birdle or harness, as they had listed. Well, I asked for and got the specs on the average SF and length and width of them, got the lo-down on "bellies are...." (honey, I know what they are, I've been working on and off with leather for over 25 years), and I told them what project I had in mind. They started to suggest that it wouldn't be possible (I've done it before) to get the proper sized pieces I needed from these bellies (did I say I've done this before???) and asked me to give them the dimensions I needed. I gave them what they asked for and the response was : "The bellies we have are definitely NOT............ I guess we can't help you, Thanks." So, I was intending to order a few anyway, trusting that they would send me the widest ones they could find, however, being given the brushoff wasn't what I would call good business. And so I let them know that. In the meantime I found a picture from Zak's that has bellies listed that they say are 7-9SF, and if they are, that means that one of them in the picture contains at least 4-5 square feet straight through the middle of the piece. No idea why theirs would be wider than the tannery's are. Meanwhile, I've ordered twice from Spfld in the past few months. Two natural horse butts and 1.5" horse strips. The first time I asked for the widest butts they had, didn't care about length, scratches, blemishes (it's a practice project) and the butts were better and larger than I expected. The second time I asked for two more natural horse butts, more strips, and one each of the brown and black drum-dyed narrower horse butts. I specifically asked for wide butts, the widest drum-dyed butts (I know they were all narrower), and thin 1.5" strips because I don't need the thick ones. Well, I think they sent me the thickest strips they had (no big deal I can easily split them myself), the drum-dyed butts are garbage (they look 20 years old, the dye rubs straight out of them, the flesh side looks like they have some weird material attached to them, and both have a horrendous 1/2" wide deep cracked crease from end to end straight through them) and the large natural butts, one was 1/2 the width of the ones I had previously received, and the other was a bit wider, still narrower than the first order, but it looked as if it had one entire edge torn from it. So, disappointed as I was, I didn't complain. If I order from Spfld again, I will show them the pictures I took of what they sent me the second time despite what I asked for, and remind them that it's the third time I've ordered from them and if I don't get what I requested this time, I'm not going to complain, but I will take my business elsewhere. Unfortunately, Boston, which used to be the center of the leather universe, has no remaining retail leather shops. Shipping costs way too much to screw around.

Bye "wide" I mean, the WIDEST? I'm not looking for just a belly strip. I've seen photos where the "bellies" are wider than just a narrow strip squared off from the side, like the following picture: . The other question I have is if some bellies are narrower, then doesn't that mean that the bends or shoulders they are cut from have belly leather remaining on their sides, which increases the square footage and the price of the bend / shoulder? I've tried wickett & craig. They told me their bellies were about 12 inches, then said they weren't.

There is one here: http://www.cutterandtailor.com/forum/ But it is in German, and you'll have to find someone with a large format printer who could blow it up to the size you need.

Sure, why not? Pieces could be heated and molded AND compressed to nearly any shape, BUT the resulting material, while hard, is brittle, and could be less resistant to a knife point. The combination though, of veg tan (after heating / molding / compressing and oiling/waxing) with the vest leather and a kevlar liner, hmm, you may have something there.

Do the metal coat hanger thing with several scales, evenly spaced, enough to easily fit in your pot. Or make a long metal trough just large enough for your scales, line them up on hangers, pour boiling water into your trough, wait for it to cool to 190 or whatever you need. Dip, remove, hang to dry, all on one rack. As long as you're not getting excessive shrinkage it will work. If you don't want to hang dry, dip fewer pieces at once and remove from the hangers to dry.

what about this: http://www.abprecisionco.com/Press%20Machines.htm It's made in New Jersey, No pictures if Beiler's machine on the internet that I can find

I've been conducting dye tests with horsehide strips I got from Spfld. Had no luck with the regular Fiebing's. Perhaps the problem was that I wasn't using deglazer? I dyed pieces dry. I soaked them through with water and others with 91% isopropyl, before dying. I could not get the dye to penetrate beyond the surface. Yes, I know this horsehide is "jacked" (compressed), medium, hard jacked, whatever. I dunked a piece in hot water and watched it unjack, dyed that too. Still no penetration. AND, more importantly, the rub off was excessive. The dye, EVERY color I tried (black, dark brown, navy blue, ox blood and kelly green) was rubbing off. I know horse hide is notorious for not taking dye, on top of this stuff being further compressed, so I was coming to the conclusion that it is pointless. Don't bother trying to dye this stuff. I read about someone using just neatsfoot oil to color their leather so, not having any, I started messing around with Obenauf's LP and leather oil and it turns this stuff a very nice rich brown color, and an even darker brown with a second coat. Penetrates all the way through too WHEN applying light coats to the flesh side and waiting for it to soak through. Otherwise you'll over oil the leather. In the meantime thought I'd give Fiebing's pro oil a try. Got a bottle of deglazer too. Had no idea what I was supposed to do, so I merely wiped down the pieces I had cut from the strips with the deglazer before dying them. This time it was only black, brown and green. I did several tests today applying the dye to the flesh side and much to my surprise when slicing into the strips after letting them dry for a few hours, the dye did penetrate significantly. Not only that, but the rub off for each color was insignificant. Now, it remains to be seen if the deglazer was the key to the penetration. I assume it was, since I did one piece without deglazing it, and another that was soaked with 91% isopropyl, and the dye did not penetrate like the deglazed pieces. Must be something about the ethyl acetate that allows the dye to really get in there. Also, the black and brown pieces, when dry to the touch, resembled drum-dyed leather as the grain side was a dark shade and the flesh side was lighter shade of color. Someone mentioned Kelley's has more oil in it? Eventually I'll try it and probably Angelus' dye too. Lastly, I took one piece that took the black dye really well, and did a LP and Oil test on it. Rubbing the preservatives in did not lift the color at all, unlike when I tried this with the regular dye test pieces. After a couple of hours drying, when buffing gently with a regular paper towel, there was some color rub off. Could be that the preservatives moistened the dye and I didn't let it set / sit long enough. Oh well, more tests to preform and I'll probably have more to tell later.