bruce johnson

Alright now I am seeing some suspicious areas looking underneath. Not much blocking between the bars. That should increase pressure over the back. My other concern now is what is holding the skirts together underneath. I may not lace to the end, but I lace them together between the bars. I am not seeing anything holding them together and I am wanting to see some overlap under the cantle? Almost looks like the right skirt is laying over the left under the cantle. Another concern - are these pocketed bars and the bars are just kind of floating around over the top of the skirts? Or the other side of the equation, the skirts are floating around underneath the bars? I am pretty sure those back strings are not doing much to keep anything stable.

Karl, I bought several sets of Mini and Maxi punches so I can just grab a punch, chuck it into the press and drill a hole. That gives me about 10 spares of each size tube. Heat them with a torch, squeeze the tube with a pliers lightly to an oval shape. Heat it again and quench. Home made oval punches for practically free.

Bill, Thanks for your input also. To back up a little, this holster is for a guy who cowboys. He wanted something he can carry on himself not so much for personal protection (although running cattle in the national forests that is getting to be an issue) as to shoot a down cow and stuff like that. With that in mind, any other type of closure or holster that might be more appropriate? He saw mine and thought that was something he wanted to try. I want to get it right just so I know more than I did. We can sure try some other styles too. I have a few tubs of scraps begging for projects like this.

K-man, Thanks for the feedback, that's why the first one is here. I made the slots 1-5/8" for ease in threading a 1-1/2" belt, Next one I'll just do the 1-1/2". I knew that stitch line was too far away once I molded it, but figured I was going to have at least a few more reasons for a "do-over" and so went on and finished it for critique. I used some skirting leveled to 11 oz, about right? I can do some more definition lines on the next one. The retention strap holds it well now, but as it loosens around the trigger guard, I think it may be able to fall back some and then be able to slip out. Also the angle I cut the strap at is a little different than the back of the slide. I need to adjust the pattern on the next one. Any other feedback is appreciaterd. I am going to give it a few days and pop another one out.

I am posting this as my first holster, so be brutal with advice. I don't plan on doing many, but then 20 years ago I wasn't planning on doing saddles either. I mainly did it as a favor for a good customer and friend. This is the first, so if there is something we need to change, we can dang sure do it. I patterned it off one my friend Diego Conde made for me a few years back. Looks like it passes the upside down test for molding I just read about earlier here, but still draws easily. The biggest thing that bothers me is a stitch groove that overran in front of the trigger, and the slot might be a little close to the stitching on the trigger edge. Any help is appreciated.

I am still having some trouble asking myself why this problem is showing up when he is moving better and still not showing soreness, being ridden in the same gear. I think it is motion. Do these pads shift at all when you move him around? I hate to say if it was my deal I would do this or that, but am going to anyway. I think he may be moving differently and creating more motion across the back under the rear bar pads. I would get rid of the underpad. I would swap out that front cinch for a string cinch. While that may not be an issue, the lining of the cinch has a slight amount of movement. That would be magnified in the back end. I'd put that back cinch on too, but then I use one all the time.

Margaux, My take on this for what it is worth. Dennis and David have been to my place and seen my two horses. They don't card the same except for rock. Rod and Denise Nikkel have made two trees for my horses. I have ordered two more trees from them based on measurements from customer horses. I build saddles and I don't have the luxury of an individual saddle for each horse, and these customers don't either. What the cards do is let me tell Rod how much spread I need, whether the bars should be crowned or flatter, and what rock I need. I got specific for the wider horse, and it is within what I would consider tolerance for the other in my case. I can make up the difference with padding. They aren't saying don't fit your horse. They aren't going to make a tree out of tolerance just to not be perfect. Make it for the horse you want. If the other horse is close, it still ought to work. If the other horse looks or measurements are way different, then you know that the same saddle isn't going to work on them both. That can be just as important to know for some people. There are all extremes of fitting (lack of a better word). Some rely on the treemakers and buy off the rack like you suggested from Valley Vet. Some treemakers will have more or less rock, flatter or crowned bars, and different spreads and angles. There are treemakers who get the rep within certain circles of their trees really fitting, and others will sore everything. Neither is correct. The bars that fit one of my horses (R12 rock with about a D11 withers - DocsStingerxPoco Tivio, head like one of Elton's swamp donkeys) won't fit what they might see in Wyoming. There is a treemaker that makes better production trees that fits my horse very well. His might not work on the flatter backed horses another guy sees. But with the cards I can tell Rod or whoever that I have a horse with more rock. I don't have to say I need the rock that Sonny Felkins or Timberline has rather than the flatter Bowden bars for example, and hope he knows the competiton enough to guess what I mean. It simplifies the communication. If I didn't know what kind of bars that Rod or Dennis or whoever puts in as a "standard", I don't have to order one and say "Ooops, too much or not enough rock, or spread, or angle for this horse", and be out the cost of that tree. Once a guy gets comfortable with a tree maker and knows what they make, then it may not be as big a factor. Some of the old makers know who made what kind of bars and ordered from several different treemakers depending on what a customer might be riding. So and so's bars are flat and more rock, another guys are more crowned and less rock, etc. The big bias against a lot of this, and it has a some basis is that you can make a perfect fitting tree for the horse standing at the post. As soon as he walks off, that geometry is constantly changing. Some guys will say that fit doesn't matter because of that. My thought is that is if it bites some at the post, it probably ain't going to get better when he moves. On the other end, you can fit one great, have the gaps or no gaps depending on your thoughts of that. Ride him a month and it all changes. Rest him two months and it is different. Put him in a stall and off the clover, etc. You are going to be close all the way through, but not perfect even for that horse very often. That is where the tolerances come in, and also where the tolerances of one saddle working on several similar horses comes in too. Now for the other side of this whole fitting thing for me personally. I think we pretty well fit the two wives and 75 or so horses I've had over the last 25 years with 4 saddles and the right pads. My first wife rode the same saddle whether she was running barrels, roping, or showing a bridle horse. She never sored one up that I could tell. I couldn't even tell you whose trees are in three of those saddles and can only guess at what they'd measure. That is real life, and lot of long riding folks have made that work too. My rambling thoughts, and dang sure not much of an answer. .

Ed, I can usually scratch out a line with a stylus distinct enough to follow on dark leather. Plan "B" - I have some sort of a pencil looking thing I got in the end of the aisle in a fabric store. It has no markings or name, but leaves a light color chalky line that just brushes away.

Julia, That is a fact about Bob and Bob's bisonettes. Unfortunately at least when I last talked to him (late Sept/early October) he was out with maybe plans to make more. I have a #1 and #4 I bought before, and was planning on filling the set in at the Sheridan show. Hindsight is 20/20. He was out before the show. I have got some from Barry and some from Jeremiah in the meantime. Barry's #2 and Jeremiah's #1 are pretty close in size. However Barry's bladestock is wider at the tip, so you need to run it on the edge of the bench with thinner pieces to allow for the blade width on the close to 45 degree cut I do. Barry's holds an edge a little longer than Jeremiah's in my experience. The trade off there is that Jeremiah's sharpen up faster for me.

I haven't used their rouge for a while, but used to find that if I sprayed the stick with a little WD 40 it helped. The rouge from Weaver and Sears is less chalky I found.

ATX, Rope cans are used to carry ropes. Mostly used by rodeo calf ropers to keep their ropes neat, organized, and protected for travel. Calf ropes are usually a manila ("Grass") or poly rope, or a blend. They are a little temperamental with weather and humidity. They can get raggy and soft, ot springy and coiled like new fishing line. These are hard cans and sealed. The center has a well to carry spurs and horn knots, along with a sack of dessicant in swampy climates or a stolen wet hotel washrag in dry climates to maintain humidity somewhat. Some of the newer ropes don't require quite the level of care the older ones did. Team ropers mostly use rope bags. Normally a soft sided bag and larger diameter than the rope cans. Team ropers use nylon or nylon/poly blend ropes. They are still a bit sensitive to temperature, but less so than grass calf ropes. Since these only come in so many colors and styles, a lot of guys get them customized with leather. When you are somewhere with 50 or 75 other guys, there are bound to be some duplicates and this helps to identify who owns it. It kind of makes the statement "This is mine, and I'm a factor", probably much like a custom case for a trap shooter or pool player. Most of us making these do custom orders, and several of us have done them for trophy type award items for rodeos or roping associations too.

Thanks for jumping in, I like it the open design. Great job on the border too. He'll like it.

Jed, My lineup. 12 oz and 16 oz Barry King straight - most small stamps, walking tools, and shaders 16 oz Wayne Jueshcke tapered- medium and larger baskets, medium block stamps 32 oz Wayne Jueschke tapered - larger blocks 32 oz Barry King straight - rivet setting, end punches, and slots punches. Good secure handle shape for "whacking".

Ed, I talked to Dave and Steve at Artisan about some other stuff before they left for the holiday break. Someone else on the forum had asked me in a PM the same thing about the splitter, and so I asked them. They have shipped some to some places (overseas as I recall) of just the splitter. The people there had a table and motor to use, and the shipping cost savings were the issue. I asked about handwheeling it without the motor or stand - discouraged by them. Even though it is based on patterns from some old big splitters that are hand wheeled, it is harder to do that with this one. I hope I got that right, if not someone from Artisan can fill in the gaps here. This is a big heavy brute. I would not think it is very portable to store under a bench and toss up there to use. You are going to slip, and say some bad words when it hits your foot. You'll say some more when you see the crack in the frame from dropping it. People I have talked with has been happy with it so far. It has been out in this form with this blade for about a year now, so there has been some use. With the old big reconditioned splitters selling for a couple hundred dollars or so per inch of blade, it is priced right if it continues to perform as it has for these guys.

Harvey, The back is awesome. I like how the point from your maker stamp leads right up the arrowhead pattern. Way cool planning to have Jeff make your stamp like that. Good lettering on the front too. About all I could add to the front would be to make the wood grain carry longer. I would make the majority of the lines about 2/3 to 3/4 of the board length, but start randomly. Don't start them all or end them all at the same place. Then make the curves somewhat parallel. Don't have two curves "kissing". They can get get closer and further, but at the same relative shape to each other.

Jed, My thoughts, and there are a ton of different opinions and experiences on the forum. Exactly what to get depends on your budget and what to get first. The best bang for the buck is stamping tools from Barry in my mind. Swivel knives - I have one from Barry, one from Henley, an old Hackbarth, and two Old Smoothies - that means either I don't know which one is best, I use each for different things, or there really isn't that much difference once you get to that level. Edgers - I have some from Bob Douglas, some from Barry, some from Jeremiah, and some old Gomph and Osbornes. I had a set from Ron Edmonds too. Pick what works for your budget, there really aren't any that I would say, "For sure don't buy". I have a few different patterns, and use them all. Don't ignore a good set of old ones. Border stamps - Pick whoever has a design you like. Barry King, Jeremiah Watt, Wayne Jueschke, Ellis Barnes all have some a little different and some the same style. Pick a couple medium sized ones in different patterns to start with maybe. Baskets - Personal preference - I like baskets that are not real long and narrow. I like baskets that have decently thick legs. Skinny cutting legs tend to be harder to keep lined up. If you can run them and keep them square - great. The thicker legs are a little more forgiving. I like there to be some depth between the legs at the ends of the stamp. That lets me stamp the centers relatively deep and make the weave "pop". The stamp is not mashing down everything. I like varying centers, if nothing else to keep me interested. The baskets I use the most are from Barry King and then Wayne. They are the shape and have the centers and legs I like. I have one from Jeremiah in the users. It was longer and shallower between the legs than I liked, but I liked the center pattern. I shortened it up on each end with a grinder. I filed and polished out between the legs to deepen that area and made it the way I like them. I had some from Ellis Barnes, and they were relatively longer and the legs were thin. Some guys like that, personal preference. The guy that bought them is happy as a clam. He likes that style and lot of people do. For geometrics again most of all of what I use comes from Barry, Wayne, and Jeremiah. For flower centers - Barry, Wayne, and some from Ellis I have modified. For mauls I use tapered mauls from Wayne for the baskets and geometrics. They are more weighted to the head and give me the heavier feel I like for set stamping. For lighter stamping, smaller stamps, and walking tools I use straight mauls from Barry. Barry's are more neutrally weighted.

Harvey, Sooo, that's what you've been up to. Nice Job. Gutsy move, basket stamping on 2/3 and looks like you got some good effect there. I'd have made leather lace using a basket on 2/3.

Firm good leather can crack at a fold line. It may have more to do with how firm the leather is. The firmer under leather doesn't compress and the grain side stretches to make the fold and cracks the grain side. Some people blame it on dry or bad leather when it can sure be good leather. Casing with warm water first and then making the fold helps prevent it. The old rule of using backs lengthwise for belts with the billet end at the butt had merit. The firmer area was at the hole end and the holes wouldn't maybe stretch as much. The buckle end was up further in a looser fibered area and fold easier. Turn that strap around and you can get cracks with folding dry leather. I usually make and set the folds on anything right after I have finished carving and the whole piece still is carrying some case. After it dries I dye letters or background and then oil. The finish is the last thing I put on, after stitching and everything else. I put the finish on with the belt folded and closed.

Dave, Denise is right about making tools. I have made some Carlos stamps out of bolts too. They work alright. Get a little under your belt and you will be comfortable with grinding and and filing to modify stamps. I have done that to quite a few Craftools, and some Barry Kings, Hackbarths, and Jeremiah Watts. Making a tool from scratch with cut lines and stuff would be harder, and that is why those guys get the bucks.

JW, I think it looks really good. Good lines and stamp pattern to complement everything as usual for your work. I need to get going on that hidden stitch deal too. She ought to like it. I won't say much about vet's wives here though. (OK, I will say they are saints with what they have to deal with).

How big a piece? I've got a splotchy red and white I just got into and a black and white roany hide mostly used up. I've still got a decent size of black and white Holstein looking remnant off a tri color hide.

Dave, I like your thought process here - "I don't want a saddle that could be worth $3,000 even as just a rough out to be ruined with sub par carving". The mechanics of building a saddle ought to be the first thing to get down. The artistry is secondary. The skills of carving come with time, comparing styles, cherry picking from what you like, and putting it down. There are some great saddle makers - mechanics and artists on this forum. Most of them are both. They weren't all great artists or mechanics to start with, and have evolved. There is no crime or apologies necessary to make your first saddle the best mechanically you can do, and artistically simple. The artistry can come later after you get that down. I would wager this won't be the only one you build.

Fred, Gum Trag is used in quite a few things. Compounding pharmacies use it as a suspending agent for medications. Cake decoraters add it to frosting to stiffen up decorations. There are probably other cooking uses as well. I have heard that it is used in some art projects as a paint additiive to give more body to some paints. It isn probably also used in some other applications as well. I think most of the other uses other than leather deal with it as a powder. I have seen it at a baking supply store and at an art supply store as a powder. I can't remember the pricing. I have no idea how much to mix. On one of the forums a guy mixed some up, and had to keep adding water until he got it thin enough to use. By that time he had something like a gallon made up. Within a short time he was growing the next generation of mold. I would suspect the commercial premixed leather stuff has a mold inhibitor maybe.

I have some tools from Jeremiah too. I would make a recommendation however. You live on the east side. Why not call Jeremiah directly? You don't have to have a resale number, will have them a lot faster, shipping will be less, and you will be talking to folks who know something about the tools if you have a question. Colleen and Jeremiah are way easier to deal with for me. Another guy that makes good tools but doesn't always get the press is Wayne Jueschke in Elko. If you like geometrics, Wayne has some centers, blocks, and baskets nobody else makes.

Julia, I missed this one too. I am pretty much with Brent here. It seems like the different tanneries each have their own process for making strap leather. Some may be nothing more than wet split, and others use compression. Some tanneries have strap sides which are firmer than "molding" sides. Probably has to do with how they process and compress it. I used to use Caldwell Moser for molding over picture frames because it was softer and molded easier than a similar weight I was getting of HO. I probably was getting sent strap sides of HO and the CM wasn't any more than split. I have mostly used golden oak. I have used some russet. It has to do with how they color up. I talked to a couple guys who use the darker skirtings, and they say it takes more water and casing time compared to some other tannages.