bruce johnson

As Wiz said - American Straight Needle. Old, heavy, and no new parts available. The guy who taught me a lot about tools repaired and restored a lot of the old needle and awl machines in this area. His advice to me was to never buy a needle and awl until he was gone. He'd worked on his last one. He said when if I did buy one, get a Landis 3 and second choice a 16, Champion deep throat next, and run away from the Americans. Sam had a shop in Canada for a while. He had a pretty good story about a guy who moved up to that area. He tried to sew some saddle skirts on an "ol' wore out loose straight needle sloppier than the back end of a gummer Holstein cow". The skirts got chewed up and that guy vowed to hand sew the rest of his life, and according to accounts - did that in fact. You may have read about him doing this.

Jason, First off, just a tip. linking your pictures to outside sources like Imgur is a bit sketchy for some people to click on. Attaching them here on this site where they show up in the post will get more interest. I have had enough Palosanto edgers through here to say those are really suspect. I don't recall any being that rough on the bottom side. that looks unfinished, really unfinished. It looks like they did the first step, they stuck a handle on, and sent it on. Does the groove actually stop before the end of the edger? if so, it's like a flat chisel. Depending on what the top profile is, it could sure be scooping and not cutting a round over.

Yes, but only in the sense of the older hook and awl machines. They have an awl that prepunches the hole followed by an needle that carries the thread. They can pull a tighter stitch by nature and a cleaner looking bottom stitch. I know that is not your question but it is my answer. As far as the closed needle machines I don't think that one particular machine will shine above the others once you get to decent machines. The variables of thread size overall, one size smaller thread in bobbin vs same thread top and bottom, needle size, type of needle (straight vs slanted), stitch length, leather thickness and consistency, chrome tan will pull in tighter than veg tan, bottom feed dog, tension top and bottom, and probably more all affect the appearance of the bottom stitch more than the model and mechanics of the machine. We have three closed eye machines - Ferdco 1245, Ferdco 2000, Cobra 26, and have had others. I can make one look better than the others if the others aren't set up optimally. I can make them all look the same too with the changes above. What does improve the bottom stitch on all of the closed eye needle machines? Overstitching. Roll the bottom side stitch line with the appropriate size overstitcher. It sets the stitches, rounds the stitches between holes, and gets as close as you can get to the top side appearance. It is the 2 minute time difference that makes a big appearance difference. This example I did on the fly several years ago. I purposely put an old needle back in the machine to get some "blowout", probably 207 thread, 9 or 10 SPI, same size thread top and bottom. hard leather, heavy presser foot pressure. I think it looked pretty rugged right out of the machine. The right side looked the same as the left in the picture but was then rolled with an overstitcher. All it needs after that is the presser feet marks rubbed out to be pretty nice appearing stitching.

Thinner leather - grain side only. Skirting leather - heavier on grain side/lighter on flesh side. The fibers on the grain side are denser and slower to wick through. The flesh side is looser and wicks in faster. Butt and top of the back is denser, lower belly and neck is looser on grain side so that is a factor also. Just because a piece of leather sucks in the oil does not automatically mean it is dry. Likewise oil that sits and does not absorb right away does not mean the leather is well oiled already. Apply light coats and wait. I applied my oil to nearly every project with a fine napped paint roller and paint tray. Dip the roller in the oil, roll off the excess on the ramp, and apply. I did 3 to 4 belts side-by-side, spur straps arranged in a single layer, and most other small projects. If I needed to overlap for wider projects I just butted up the next roll to the last one, I didn't overlap and over oil that section. It will wick over to the dryer areas faster that it will wick away from an over applied area. After a few times you develop a feel for how often to wait and decide to reapply and how much oil to leave on the roller for thinner or thicker leather.

Chuck, Yeah, we take quite a bit! We usually take the longest to set up and at the end, the last ones out the door. I take a "show mix" - new and refurbished. It varies what sells from show to show and year to year at the same shows. About a 4 hour setup and 2-1/2 hour breakdown this last show and still the last to leave again. We have gotten a lot better. The logistics have grown from assorted plastic totes in a pickup camper shell to rolling totes and a 5x8 cargo trailer. With enough totes and hauling a machine home for someone it was like Jenga to pack sometimes. I use Milwaukee Packouts now. I upsized to a 6x12 tandem axle trailer before the Pendleton show a few months ago and we are up to 8 packouts, one rolling tote, and a tool chest base that is the checkout and show supplies stand. Prescott, AZ in 5 weeks and then Sheridan, WY in May. I do love my retirement!

I have never seen an 8 inch Landis for what that's worth. The only 8 inch I know of is Weaver's version.

Thanks for posting the link Chuck! We left this morning and just got home from the show. At the 20:00 or so mark it shows my booth. I was busy with a young customer. Personable, enthused, and polite. He had finished a carving class that morning. He had been told in the past he needed his stamping to be more intentional. I helped him pick out a new maul and a couple hand tools to step up his game. It seems like at about every show I found a good young person and we barter. I give them the tools and they make me something of their choice. I can’t wait to see what this young man comes up with!

We got one at the Sheridan show last May. My wife has used it some. I played with it and thought it has some real possibilities.

I would call them really early on Monday. The leather show in Las Vegas is this week and expect they will be loading a bunch Monday morning if they haven't already. LMC provides all the machines for classes plus a huge display at every show so they take a lot and they get there early.

Mike, Thanks for catching that! Yes, 3/64 inch edger and I went back corrected that. Merry Christmas to you and yours!

The whole topic of edgers came up in an email yesterday. I made the reply that edgers could be an hour long topic in a class (easily). I did a thumbnail reply in another thread about types of edgers. Besides type, the other common question with edgers is "What size?" Here is my take. There are no standards for the number sizing for edgers between makers. One makers #2 may be different than another maker's #2. Even among a single maker the measured size/number may vary between styles of edgers. Historically the Gomph, HF Osborne, and vintage CS Osborne edgers were all 1/16 inch of cut per size number. For example the #1 was 1/16" of cut, the #3 was 3/16 inch of cut. Somewhere along the line, the sizes changed and a #3 now from a maker might be 3 mm, 1/16 inch, or some other measurement. The key is to know the maker edger style and then the actual cut measurement. What size of cut edger do you need? Everybody has a preference but here is mine. For most work like flat goods, belts, etc. I want my edger to have a cut width around 1/3 the thickness of the leather for edging top and bottom. For a 12 ounce piece (3/16 inch) I grab a 1/16 inch edger. For an 8 ounce piece (8/64") then I go with something like 3/64 inch of cut. These widths do two things - 1) they don't get into my stitch line on edges and 2) they round off the square edges and leave about half the edge of the piece square. By the time you rub that edge it will compress and shape some and that 1/2 thickness remaining square rounds over more. I like that look and feel for most work. If you want a heavier rounded edge for some applications (saddle horn or skirts) then choose an edger around half the thickness of the leather.

I just answered your email and came here to see this. I can expand a bit on what I didn't cover in my reply there. Straight edgers - generally flat bottom and cut a flat profile. I mostly sell them to makers of English horse tack. Round edgers - several styles that cut a rounded profile, concave bottom surface, some have a convex shape to the top edge and some are flat on top. usually a longer life with they are a blade style edger and easiest to maintain. My favorites. Cowboy edgers? - may be referring to Western edgers aka bent-toe edger - fairly easy to maintain, curved profile from the side. As they sharpen back the cutting edge goes back further and further around that corner and the angle you hold them at lowers. Bisonette edgers - hole in a flat blade and can theoretically cut on a push or pull stroke. How often do most people need to pull? Pretty rare. Harder to maintain and sharpen without widening the cutting edge. My wife likes them a lot. I sort of do but never saw any huge advantage. Finest edger, fine edger, Gomph Common edger - these have a V shaped fork in the tip. rounded profile, fairly easy to maintain, can trim linings close to a stitch line, sharp tips and are sometimes called "finger stabber edgers". Common edgers - lots of versions and several edgers get lumped as common edgers. Some of the vintage unmarked ones from Osborne were referred to as common edgers. rounded profile, easy to maintain, easy to widen out sharpening unless you are careful. Gomph called their "fine edgers" as "common edgers". French edgers - flat profile, can be used for edging, skiving edges, and if they have the right profile will gouge channels too. You asked in your email about tight inside curves - the turnback edgers will do that - short lifespan and tricky to sharpen. A round edger with short toes and narrow sides will do inside curves too.

I sell refurbished ones from a few makers and styles, and new ones from CS Osborne https://brucejohnsonleather.com/products/punching-tools/bagslot-punches

Have only see one or two in pictures before. Not very common.

white tape

I’ve done both. Straps loosely rolled in a jumbo zip lock. Flat pieces left flat. I left enough air to keep the plastic off the leather surface. Initial case in the morning or evening, 12 hours to even out, then tool. If I didn’t finish then back in the bag. I didn’t see much difference in the refrigerator or not.

That is how they are supposed to look. They are designed mainly for floral carving and especially beveling tight stem work with close lines. You can bevel a line without mashing down the adjacent cutc. Also to bevel a crossing element without mashing and leaving a large halo on the part below lie a flower over a stem or leaf. I liked steep bevelers for lightly breaking over the outside of a cut line for beadlines too. just lightly break that square edge.

And here I just make them out of old screwdrivers...you guys are fancy!

This right here. I am not picking on you but if I have to do anything more than once, every pass is a chance for error. It doesn't matter what. Two coats of dye on an edge, multiple hits on a stamp, whatever. Two or three passes with something with no steering like a wing divider - I am not that consistent either. Saddle divider with a wide flat inside surface to follow an edge then yes. Now the crabby old guy perspective and not pointed at anyone, just how i learned and was taught. I get this question a lot and here is my answer. The only place I did not groove was stitching into crease lines on wallet interiors with #69 thread. The purpose of a stitch groove is to recess the thread to prevent thread wear and/or add comfort to user in contact areas. They make different styles of groovers and different size grooving tips. You can match the groove width and depth to the thread size. even the amount of pressure you use can control depth and width with some groovers. You don't have to dig a 3x3 ditch for #92 thread and a scratch line for #346 is just a target line for straight stitching and not functional. For the people who say that you weaken the leather, I hear that a lot. The "strength of leather is all in the grain". OK, take that little spindle of leather you grooved off and pull it apart between a two finger grip. If that is the strength you need to keep your work together you have bigger problems. There is essentially no added strength in that little hair of leather. If there was then there would be instructions on how to make projects with it (actually you can make decorative miniature bird nests with it). The strength of the leather is all in the density of the dermis, thickness, and what part of the hide it comes from. That little sliver of epidermis is inconsequential. I have stickers made up (see below) on all the sewing machines in the shop for my wife and anyone who comes over and borrows some machine time.

Keep a straight stitch line and remember to watch the groover next time. I would rub out the errant groove line as best I could and regroove it before I stitch.

The narrow bars just means that the bars are not as wide through the middle (waist) as other trees - theoretically for closer contact. We could get into a big discussion of whether that is true in real life, but that is another rabbit hole. The narrow bars should mean less contact surface and again - theoretically less weight bearing surface. The front and rear of the tree bear weight and the area overall is what controls pressure. A narrow waist on a tree is a minor factor fit. Bar angles, bar length, twist, rock in the bars, gullet/ handhole width, and relief at the bar edges are all bigger factors for fit than that narrow waist.

Super nice clean work - tooling, stitching, and finish are all top notch1

Mine had the oval hole. I raised it all the way up when I was sewing wear leathers on saddle blankets. otherwise - the teeth barely clearing the slot.

I had one. Sewed at least 30 new saddles on it, plus a ton of repair work. A couple miles of double latigo reins. production belts, wallets, everything. If it had 4 more inches of throat clearance it never would have left. If this one sews - $500 and I would not be asking, I would be robbing the ATM and gassing up the truck.

Check with a local steel yard if you have one close by. Sometimes you can get off cuts from the scrap.