Hidemechanic

I've had the same experience with NW packers wanting to fine tune the bars for their pack strings. I see no reason thought that one couldn't send a sawbuck back to the tree maker to be be covered. As to covering the sawbuck in leather as in the first post, I have NW packers who count every oz. that goes on the horse(or mule). They pre pack everything then weigh it all. If the weight goes over their maximum for the animal carrying the load they start looking for ways to trim pounds and even ounces. We do have a variance in demographic. Pleasure packers that don't really carry heavy for very long. Hunters who only go out once or twice a year. Dude packers who also pack light because they aren't out on long trips. Then the serious packer who goes into the back country and the farther and or more rugged they go the more extra weight becomes an issue. My sawbucks do fit the Arab-1/4xs as well as larger backs. The first couple pix in this thread appear to be suited for smaller backs but that could just be my perception from those pix. They are clean looking sawbucks though as looks goes. Most of my guys though are more focused on function. I can't remember where to get those tripple rigging rings. Maybe it was Mast(back when) but I couldn't find them in Bork or Boise. The tripple ring keeps your cinchas close if you like that and work well with the double cinchas. Some packers like more width between the rings depending on their animal's conformation. I also picked up a design for my paniers from an oldtimer who redesignd them without the leather ends which reduces weight (and maintanance)as well and are stronger.Cheers,GH

For this particular example I have a hard time thinking it is for powder, sand for scribes maybe, but the inside is too rough (imo) for powder. Also, the spout would need to be shorter and bigger around or powder would tend to jam up. I would be more inclined to think this would be a ball pouch for long guns, though I build them of similar design I still have a problem with the length of the neck. So far I vote for the scribes.GH

Though I have nothing to back this up, but an opinion that I may have derived from other historical searches, it could well be that though they used this type of buckel method early on, thay may not have called it Ranger Style. A coyboy needing a belt probably just picked up whatever caught his eye, which may or may not have been ranger style. ( Not to diminish the reference to Texas Rangers). I think there are a lot of items from our past that we have put modern names to and later the assumption is made that the modern name might be where the way to start a search that leads nowhere. Sometimes searchers have to get more creative in their search peramiters in order to find what they are looking for(photos, drawings, journals,etc..). Sometimes too, the difficlty comes from finding that what we may call by one name may have a different name in another country or culture. Happy hunting.GH

AWSOME K !! Great entertaiment, I got tict when I clicked on Alice and the tunes went down, then Alice started playing and I was okay. Whew!! Great design, like your work. Looks like a bunch of you guys are co-oping spreading the word for your talents. The site rox man, GH

Cory, I use a round knife for most cuts and with the softer hides You definately have to roll the knife edge rather than push it.(as with roler knife) Keep your knife closer to your body, the more you reach the less control you have. A tip for utility knives. I resahrapen mine. I hate new blades because the machine cuts cause too much drag when cutting. An old mule skinner first taught me to strop the util. blade as you would your swivel knife. When I got my paper wheel sharpening outfit I went to it for sharpening my utility knife blades(use small visegrips to hold), haven't baught blades for I don't know how long. Cheers GH

David, seeing your work always makes me wish I had gotten into making seats, but when I got around to market research around here the custom bike market has dropped off(with everything else) besides around here they are a bunch of snobs(wanta B hard guys) I always like to see your work, clean lines, well thought out designs, tight consistant lace work... Are your back pockets wet yet from the arse kissing? Always appreciate good work. GH

Hennessy, in another post you mentioned a foam lined skirt. This peaked my intrest because I have been pondering just that idea with a saddle fit issue I am dealing with. I'm wondering if you or others have had success with an orthopedic approach for hard to fit horse? My issue is a Tenn. Walker, mid teens,high long wither, hollow shoulder, peaked spine and long broad backed.(7+- foals) The owner called me out to her place to look at her horses as she has had trouble fitting them. The mare has been the big problem. I tried several saddles and several trees and the one that fit the closest was (I hate to admit) a saddle that I pieced together(from spare parts)in a hurry once and never intened to be seen or used by a customer. I call it my Johnny Cash saddle( remeber the song 'One Piece ata Time'? "It's a '57-'58-'59-'60 Cadillac automobile"?) The tree is a semi-Q SFBowman. (HadFox if I recall) My issue at the moment is convincing the owner we aren't there yet. After reading another post I suggested she try a dressage saddle on the mare before going too much farther, but the owner can now ride the horse with my Johnny Cash saddle and wants to work with it to 'fine tune' it. It is still not a good fit,just better than what she has seen to date. I've never been crazy about using padding gimmicks to fix a fit problem and I have thought about using padding on the skirts to get a more orthopedic fit for the problem backs. But haven't done it yet to know what success it would have. I have built endurence and trail saddles with a foam lined skirts but the foam and the skirt followed the lines of the bars. In this case I would be padding up the high edge of the bars to fill where the area that is lacking on this mare ( her back muscles are far below the top of her spine) as well as fill for the shoulders. I'll probably have to get some pix to make sense of this for you. Question is, has anyone had success with using an orthopedic approach to fitting a problem back whether it be on the saddle or with the saddle pad? look forward to hearing your experiences.GH

Hennessy, this conversation led me to the opposite issue and I don't want to hijack STPENNER's thread so I'm going to post in General saddle discussion,Hennessy, Orthopedic fit question. I'm happy to have the rest of you jump in as well. Sorry for buttin in STPENNER,,GH

Ask the seller if you can send her a tracing of your horse's shoulders if she would send you a picture of the tracing held in place under the gullet of the Sleipner so you can get a better idea if the 'medium' tree would be a match for you. Or, as I believe, English saddles are a bit more standard that western when it comes to measurements, go to a local saddle store and check your tracing on various english saddles that are med. trees. It they seem to be similar you should be able to have better idea about the Sleipner. [tracing is; make a wire form of the area where the pommel sets over your horse's shoulders and transfer the wire to a piece of poster board by drawing the shape of the wire on the poster board, cut and use the bottom part as the form for checking saddle widths. This is not an abslute match but should get you in the ballpark for your situation] Good Luck GH

Okay, disclaimer well taken, I agree I would not suggest anyone do this, however there are horses and horse owners who know what their situation is and can make a determination as to what is safe. We all take calculated risks every day. I understand why some may off hand think this is a wreck waiting to happen, but I also know my animals and where I ride and my own abilities with my animals. This picture didn't bother me because when I think about it, I expect that this gal knew what she was doing. Now if we hear in the paper next week that a mom and her twin babies were in an accident while horseback riding, then I'll get on board about what idiots people can be. Now I think I'll go turn on the TV and listen to my new president tell me how he's going to make own lives better.YeeHah..GH

oyvindbl, Pix would help. I will admit that I am a snob of sorts, when it comes to certain saddles, especially Auzzies and Mexies. The Pakistani auzzies are junk in my opinion, so if that is what you have I would suggest you hang it from a rail or use it on your next bonn fire. Though the Pakies were made somewhat for the US market they were not made for US horses. If it is an authentic Auzzie, that is a different story. Does it have a maker mark? Mainly we need to know what the guy meant by 'wasn't strait'. This could mean the tree was twisted (tougher to fix) it could be broken(Could be fiberglassed), or just that the flocking(padding under saddle) needed reset or replaced. It's hard for us to tell you if it is worth the effort to restore the saddle until we get a better look and more details on that saddle. GH

My wife found this pic in a mag. The mom took old bags and cut leg holes in them so she didn't have to hire a baby sitter. When my wife was preg with our youngest we would ride and he would go right to sleep with the rocking of the horse's steps. Later after he was born and big enough(8wks premy) she made a sling for him and we still got to ride and he would stay asleep most of the ride. There weren't interuptions for feeding either as his food sourse was right there withing reach. The things we do to ride.GH

Thanks Tim, looking back I probably should have used smaller holes so things blend better and so you can't see through to the tree. I'll see if I can put something together on that pattern, if someone doesn't already have something they can put on here. Just takes practice, like all this stuff.GH

I agree with the others, however if I may suggest, on your detail work(molding) that you use something rounder and smoother so as to not leave lines in the middle of your work. Sometimes I use the wood handles of a tool like an edger or I have a wood handled tack hammer that the end is shaped for detailed creasing or molding. Helps make things look nice and smoothe all around.Great job. GH

Well my most recent experience reminded me that saddles are not breed specific and rarely is a 'breed specific' saddle going to fit all the backs of the breed it was meant for. I.E. you fit each horse according to it's needs. That is not to say that one saddle wont fit other horses, rather, it is not safe to assume that a saddle for one gated horse will fit another gated horse. It's a try it and see proposition. Bets wishes. GH

Can't give you early history about McPherson Saddlery, but I'm sure it's the same McPherson that owns or is owned by Montana Leather and Oregon Leather. That particular saddle looks like their mid line saddle. I'd check out that seat, from the pix it doesn't look like their better one but they are re-do-able(saddle tech term). Price is probably okay if the rest of the saddle checks out. If you aren't in a big hurry you might shop around, with the way horse prices have dropped, saddles aren't far behind. You should be able to upgrade without putting out too much. Good luck.GH

Bruce, Thought I'd revive this thread. I have a tree that looks like the cousin to your Celler. I can't help you with your Celler search but wanted to show you this one. I also have an old saddle that had no marks on it. Turn of the century swells, high cantle, full square skirts and 8 button loop seat, leather outside fenders. The thing that got me curious was in the location where a flank billit might be installed was a mark like someone started to punch a long ovel punch but just left the mark. Same on both sides. Later I decided to clean the saddle before pulling it appart. While I was brushing around the those marks letters appeared. "Gopher Brand" Ever heard of that one? I'll have to dig it out one day and get some pix of it. Fun old stuff. GH

I agree talk with Art, I don't remember enough specifics about modles. There are a lot of them(models) out there, some work well for leather and some don't. As Bree said some are good for light leather but two layers of 6oz. is not light in my mind. I have a Singer converted industrial(31-20) head and what you are taling about is about the limit for it. You also have to consider the type of leather you are using it on. Veg.tan, chrome tan, different types of chap hides,garment, latagos, and such, Some hides are firmer than others, some are 'spongy'), the quality of the leather is going to effect how easy or difficult they are to stitch on a given mechine. Best thing to do is take the kind of leather you plan to stitch when you look at a meching and try it out. Just a tip, if you do have a situation when your mechine wont handle what you are stitching, you can try removing the thread from the needle slowly punch the holes with the mechine(on a test piece) then go back with the needle threaded and see if the hook will pick up the loop to make a stitch. Usually if the project isn't too think you can have some success doing this by turning the mechine by hand. In most of these cases if you try to use the motor the stitch length wont be consistant and you'll wish you had done it by hand. Do you have a stitch horse or something to hold your work when you hand stitch? That usually makes hand stitching less tedious. I know a lot of saddle makers and holster makers that do all their stitching by hand. Maybe they have some tipe that will make hand stitching more enjoyable for you. Good luck. GH

Don't know this saddle, but even the ones from Aus. are usually built for narrower horses so I would try to get a front on shot to see if it is compatable with your horse. It looks like a better quality than the junk from Pakistan. It may be a good saddle.Check the padding under, it may need reflocking or maybe just fluft and reset( can get hard from getting wet with horse sweat) You do want to check the girth billits , they may need replacing. Same with stirrup leathers. The seat looks a little short to me but maybe that works for you. Hope this helps. GH

I guess it depends what you are going to do with it. It is something I would stay away from. Looks like a mex to me. The seats usually are not comfortable in those because it's built to get out the door but brake down fast. Check the tree for brakes and the underside for nails and screws, they don't stay together well. You need to know your stuff when buying off fleebay to get something that has the quality you are looking for as well as getting a saddle that will fit your horse. It's hard to get someone off there to let you send the saddle back if it isn't what you want. It's always best to buy a saddle you can get your hands on. That's my 2. Hope things work out for you.GH

To me it depends what the saddle is going to be used for, but rarely do I not do some kind of dally wrap if the horn is going to have something hang from it at all. The D wrap helps protect the horn cover, not just for roping, but of course you don't have to wrap the horn.GH

EJ, To tell the truth I forget where those came from but they are like monster Chicago screws. Courser thread and harder steel. It was smooth enough on the back after I cinched it down that chafing was no prob. GH

As to hat fit, or getting a hat to fit, it's like boots. You need some brake in time for the hat band to mold itself to the shape of your head. It's easier with felt hats because everything molds together better than straw. So with fElt hats(which I usually reshape anyway) I pick a day when I know I can ware the hat for awhile and I get it wet and ware it dry. Anybody see Tom Selic in Monte Walch? He walked out of the mercantile with his new brand hat and the first rain barrel he walked by, dunked the new hat in the water pulled it out and put his own shape to it. Put it on his head where he wanted it, got on his horse and rode off. Well that wasn't to far from truth. Usually I buy a felt hat in the fall anyway and rains aren't too uncommon so I've gone outside waring the new hat, let it get a good soaking(not soppy floppy wet, kind of like casing leather) then do whatever shaping I want and let it dry that way. The leather band and the felt take to the shape of your head and there you are. I've also been less dramatic and just used a spray bottle. Sometimes, in a hurry to bypass the brake in period, I use a tea pot on the stove , using the steam to shape the hat like the guys in the store, but at home you need to be real carefull not to get the felt too hot. It will shrink and get hard like cardboard. This doesn't do much for the hat band though. Straw hat brake in is pretty much,get out and work and get some good sweat going. Between you body heat and moisture the hat band will shape to your head. No shortcuts there. That's my techno tips for fitting your hat, that with the string used behind the head you have a pretty secure combination for keeping your hat on while everyone else is trying to controle their horse with one hand on their head, or scrabbling off the trail throughing their ranes to their partner as the hat sails off like a frizby. GH