Hidemechanic

Bizzy, welcome. If you scrol down the main page you'll see a topic on dieing. You do more reading around the site and you'll pick things up. As for your first pic, it looks like that was done on a mechine ( though in the old days it was done by hand with a couple tools, repeating one impression after another to form the final design). It's an embossing tool that has changeble drums(and roller) with different designes cast or engraved onto each drum. You run a piece of strap leather through the mechine and the drum embosses the design into the leather, then the finish is added later. The second pic also is likely done from an embosser but could be easily done with two tools, the arched scalloped tool and the pointed arrowhead shaped tool. Go on the web for leather working tools and you should find some cataloges that show the designs of stamping tools then things should start to make more sense. Best wishes, GH

Storm, Have you had a chance to get into that book? How's it working for you? I know Pete's stuff and most of it isn't my style(though he does a nice job), but I have learned other good things from him. Maybe the basics of drawing he presents would be useful as well. Let us know what you think. I am a frustrated patern drawer(fancy words) and willing to try something new. Thanks GH

As usual if I wait long enough everyone will say about everything I am thinking. I use a skife knife(sold by most everyone) that uses the single edge razor blade that used to be used for the old injector razors.You may go through a dozon blades or just a few but it will be more than one for bigger projects. I do have other skiving blades as well as my round knifes but I don't do all my skiving with only one blade. Different things determine how leather will skive.Thin, thick, inbetween, soft temper, firm temper, where it is cut from the hide, and how well it is tanned,veg tan, chrome tan, skirting hides, tooling hides, latago dry or waxy, harness, bridle, chap, on and on. Like Tom said you have to get the feel of how your leather wants to skive. As also mentioned, besides a seriously sharp blade there needs to be the proper amount of moisture in the leather to skive properly in most caces. Not wet wet, but 'on the dry' as we say.Similar to tooling. For skiving long tapers over large areas I have been known to use a duller blade with the skife knife so as to take off vary little(looks like saw dust) while smoothing things out. I also will change directions, not just start at the thickest edge to the thinest. Invarably I will get spots where the knife gouged a bit deep and changing directiion helps clean it up. Remember this mostly appies to heavier leather. Just don't get hung up on thinking (especially being new at it) that you should be able to do the job in as few strokes as possible. Sometimes that may apply but when you have a lot of material to remove on a piece that could be easily ruined by one misplaced stroke, you want to do what works. Maybe us saddle makers are spoiled because we do a lot of skiving on ground seats which gives us a lot to practice with out feeling like we are wasting leather. But that's the key as usual, practice practice practice. Try different things, even sanders or grinding wheels, and other types of bladed implaments. Best wishes, GH

This is a peave of mine, so take it for what it's worth(one guy's opinion), but I see too many projects that are not edged and burnished. For those jobs that do require it I have three different applications. 1- I have a soul finisher with a big hardwood drum with groves to fit different sized edges. 2- For my Dremmel I made a small leather drum with a grove too fit smaller edges. 3- The old fashoned way, a folded piece of canvas with beeswax. I use beeswax on all my edges. Only some times do I use edgekote. The trick is moisture when burnishing(and edging). Same principal as when tooling, the moisture has to be right for success. I know a saddle maker who used bar type saddle soap, but I never had good luck with it. Watch you speed on the motorized burnishers, the right amount of friction and moisture is the key. Whatever medium you use is more to keep the fuzzys down Happy trails, GH

How about making a patern? Cut out some card stock of the shape you want and go from there. Maybe you need something more specific, but the ones I made for weights on my table I used a piece of skirting for the bottom and chap hide for the to rest. (hard and soft) One is round, one hexigon and the other like a football(lets not go there). There are 4 pieces. Chap hide(soft)-top bottom and gusset. Skirting-(hard) bottom. Stitch your top to yout gusset inside out, grain to grain. Stitch the end of the gusset where it meets itself,also grain to grain and trim. Turn right side out and tap or work the seams to shape. For the bottom piece(chap hide) I used a 1/2" half round punch or equivelent and punch near the center of the bottom piece. You will do the same to the heavy bottom but you wont want them to line up when you put the two bottoms together. Next, run some glue around the outer edge of the soft bottom,(1/4") then the same for the inside edge of the bottom of the gusset, which will be folded over the edge of the bottom. You can pinch the gusset around both sides of the bottom edge as you can see in the pics that you will stitch them to the hard bottom this way.(folding just makes a more finished look) Now put the bottoms together making sure that the half round punches are not exactly lined up and the rounds facing away from each other. (You will later, after stiching together want to get a funnel spout through the outside opening and into the inside opening) I would glue the two bottoms together only around the edges, so they will stay in place while you stitch around the outside edge. You can fill with sand or shot from the bottom. Once the bag is as full as you want it you can use an awl or whatever to close the inside flap then close the outside flap and smack it down on a table or stone and you should have a bag that should not leak yet can later be filled or emptied. Or you could just take a large(whatever size you like) piece of soft leather fold it in half, inside out, and stitch around the edges leaving an opening just big enough to pull the bag right side out. I would plan the opening to have a couple flaps that extend past the bag. It would look like and work like the big balloons you blow up then stick the part you blew through, inside. Make sence? Good luck. GH

Most biker vest are basically a western style, or a denim jacket style with the sleeves removed. For chaps, I make them along the same lines as show chaps for horse folk. They fit better and cover more. The commecial biker chaps are too open in the front and that's not an area I care to be getting cold when I ride, of course I ride when there's still snow on the ground so I don't guess it makes much difference. I re-did a pair my brother had made for horse riding. They were a full zipped style but everything was made of the same hide. I tooled the belt tops and counters to make it look like they were buckle type. He wares them on his Gold Wing and horse or bike he gets lots of comments.GH

Judy, very nice work. Since the conversation is leaning toward 'tuning you up' for #4, I would like to add a couple things for your consideration. First about strings, I like to order(for utility saddles) a hot stuffed waxy latago in burgandy. It's deeper colored to start, but then I put the end of a string in a vice and rub mink oil into it. I hold with one hand and vigorously rub back and forth with the other hand in such a way to create some heat. This allows the mink oil to liquify and pernatrate plus it spreads the die to the edges and you get a uniform color. It also makes the strings more supple for pulling through when applying to the saddle. Second, lines and directionality was discussed as well as distration to the eye. We see the main lines of the saddle are determined by the bottom of the skirt, in this case the ware leather, then the seat, and jokey, as well as the rigging. It may just be the angle of the photo, but it appears the front rigging is a bit off angle to the front jokey line, and the rear jockey is running up hill toward the front jockey. These are things that may be more noticable to other saddles makers rather than most customers, but to me that's part of what helps me fine tune my eye when laying out and fitting. I ask myself if I am willing to leave something that another saddle maker would spot but usually a customer wouldn't. When it comes down to it, when dealing with angles or other estetics, most customers can tell when something isn't quite right even if they can't spot exactly what it is. But all customers do know when things are right when they see something they really like.Good job and good luck on the next one, they continue to be a learning process. GH

For those interested in the stitch horse plans that I mentioned in the other thread, send me a PM. GH I haven't found an easy way to add this with the plans so those who do get these plans will have to get the extra information from here. The top faces of the jaws are lined. About 2" strips,(Skirting)or whatever the size of the jaw face. I edge them and glue them on. They protect from wood marks. Next, I knock the edges off(rasp) the seat near the base of the jaws, so I don't feel the edge of the seat board.. Then pad and cover the seat area. Actually I know a saddle maker who used the back part of a saddle tree to make a seat for his stitch horse, never tried it so I don't know if it was comfortable or a novelty. Last, the stretcher board( between the front and rear legs) that is part of the lever assembly, on mine is a 1" dowel. The lever board is about 2 1/4" with a hole big enough to slide over the dowel, thus this board stands on end rather than lay flat and does not attach to the dowel as the other one did. The front and rear legs are drilled to accept the dowel which is glued and screwed.. This arangement allows for adjustment for projects that may need to be a bit tighter than the knotches will hold. Sliding the lever forward on the dowel will make for a tighter clamp. Good luck. GH

Since this has sort of turned into a hijack I'm going to do a new post so those interested in the RS plans can PM me.GH

Marlon, you just doing the top or are you going to cover the whole box and stitch the parts together? More tooling, ya know"bigger canvas"? I also vote no black (sorry Tom), if anything I'd go deep brown on the outside borders and around your name and let the floral and lettering stay lighter, show off your work. Looks great.GH

Wecome Frank. What are you hiddin behind those strings? Just ribbin, sweet job. Hurry back to God's country. GH

Frog, looks great. Way better than the one I did of that pat.GH

After I messed up a couple times I got to where I could anticapate the change and compencate by changing the angle a bit to avoid making fat ends.I do stop and recheck with my straight edge frequently in the curves. You do have to cheet once in awhile to controle it but any body that gets close enouth to see it is likely going get cow kicked. Kind of like the measure twice cut once but you stop and measure more than twice in this case. Besides, I was told long ago that the mark of a good craftsman was how well he covered his mistakes.GH

Felix, I like Jeramia Watt vids. ranch2arenadotcom is his web ad. they are spendy though,I'm sure others will suggest more. Good luck and welcome. GH

widopof, was the leather wet when mounted? Leather can act different with paint then with water. Maybe that is why the leather got 'bigger', or did not get tight. If dry when mounted you should be able to make it tight. Good luck, GH

FB, I should mention that the picure I added was not for rough stock chaps but just something to give you a starting point for patern making. You probably know but I will pass this along anyway that there are a few basic styles of chaps and alterations made to those basics that make them work for different uses. For instance the bat wig is basically cut down on the inside(some outside) for the rodeo chaps for two reasons. It allows the lower body of the chaps to fly around while the critter is bucking and hopefully give the cowboy a better ride. It also removes restriction so when the cowboy does hit the ground he can make a quick getaway without tripping over his chaps. With that in mind it should help while making adjustments in the patern. Same basic idea for chinks. Cowboys at branding time are always crouching and kneeling and their bats would get in the way so they had them shortened. There are a couple methods for the fringe. To mark your basic fringe line, I lay the patern on the hide and move it back away from the edge untill I get about where I want the fringe to start.Usually you can't use this for the entire fringe line in one shot. And I don't simply use dividers to mark a lone the same distance form the edge all around the hide(you could but not in one shot) as some styles look better if the fringe is longer at the bottom and shorter at the top or on the sides. Therefore I use the patern to help keep the contours of the fringe in line with the chap. ( maybe I want 4" on the side and 6" on the bottom I can use the patern to mantain the shape on the sides 4" in from the edge then do the same with the bottom 6" up from the edge, then I can use the curve of the patern corner to blend the side and bottom lines. As for hand cutting fringe, I put the chaps on (make sure they are hanging right)and look down the leg in front and toward the outseem and determine a plumb line to the ground and mark it, this line will be my referrence for the rest of my fringe. Getting the fringe right around that corner is the tricky part. I then lay the chap on the table and use at least a 3' strait edge, mark off a the width of fringe you want to cut but at this point we are not cutting and not marking all your fringe, you just want to see if your fringe is going to pan out with the first line you marked. Measure an equi distance from the top and bottom of your first line toward the outseem.Mark dots with your awl. You may only be able to measure about 5" at a time but you want to work your way up the outside of the chap body to see how the fringe will lay when cut. I use my strait edge to rub a light mark on the hide which will fade later. I think you get the point. The reason I go through this is because there are a few factors that can work against you when cutting fringe that can make things go arye. First, there are some cheep commecial chaps that have fringe cut at a very shallow angle and when the chaps are worn(put on) the fringe hangs funny and lays all over itself. They cure it by cutting fatter fringe so it is stiffer and to me fat fringe looks clunky. What we are trying to do is have the fringe hang nicely with a finer look. So the angle fringe is cut can effect how it looks. Not to mention, if you cut too shallow an angle your fringe at the bottom will be pointing behind you as though you are standing in a wind storm. The knife you use and how you use it will determine how each cut comes out. All knives can cause drag on the leather especially softer hides. Usually when the hide streches while cutting the fringe gets wider at the bottom. It is probably becoming more popular to use the rotary blade. In my own case I use my well stropped round knife, start the cut at the top of the fringe then roll the knife toward the outer edge of the hide.Measure for the next one and cut. The main reason I don't premeasure all the fringe is because each previous cut may not be perfectly on the mark or you may find that you have to make a slight adjustment of your angle to keep things running "strait" and you find yourself cutting off your premeasured lines. I'm sure others have had success with less labor and I am looking forward to hearing from them on this subject, but this is basically how I go about it. Of course we haven't mentioned the other details yet such as types of belts and strap attachments. But I'll quit for now. GH

Wolv, I had a mini-wake up call, actually in the middle of the night it came to me that if you shape your top piece over the pad until it's edge is even with the flat side of the pad ( which would lower your seam)you wouldn't have to worry about dealing with pucker(like you would if the side panel was higher in the contoured part of the pad)in the side panel as it meets the top. It doesn't look like you shouldn't have any trouble adjusting the tooled panel to fit that way. Also, I think if the seem were lower it would be less exposed to ware than if higher. Sorry I didn't think of it sooner, hope it helps. GH

FB, EltonJ did a real nice pair of rodeo chaps in show offs' get out your sunglasses thread. I posted a couple pair I think also in show offs under first, 'now and then'. Elton's pics give a real good idea of what you want to do to make a patern. Pretty simple to use butcher paper or the like and lay it up against your leg (have someone help you) you want to start with where your belt will be and have about 5" past your outseam to give you some to work with later when you draw the shape you want for the outer edge. Let's say on your right sidewith the paper in front against you, run your hand from about you first belt loop(3 1/3"or so)off your buckle center down toword your crotch. This will make somewhat of an elongated 's', which you should cut to give relief to the paper so it will bend around your leg. Make a level line that goes toward the back of your leg and finish cutting to the back. Keep tape handy to add where needed. One of your most common points of referrence will be you out seam. From the highest point of your inseam measure down about 8"-9" which will give you the bottom edge of your strap panel. This will make a gentle curve toward the knee from the inseam piont. Rodeo chaps may stay inside the knee a bit as they turn toward the bottom. Alot of these shapes are a matter of taste some are function. back to the belt at your side about even with the inseam, drop down a few inches then turn out slightly so you hav a line about 3" behind your outseam just about the knee you can add some flair if you like til you hit the floor.turn toward the toe of the boot around the instep and join the piece that came down the inseam. This will give you a general shape fpr making your oun chap patern. Chinks are about the same but the flair will be different depending on the style you like. Most chinks are at or just below the knee with the fringe below that. Up here in the NW they have dropped to about mid shin and fringe to about the top of the foot. I'm attaching an old pic that will give you some idea of what you are looking for. Another (better) idea is to borrow a pair and copy them. All the doodahs of course are extra info but this will get you started if I explained it well enough.Good luck GH

That's kind of where I was headed, most folks think they are getting something made just for them when they can watch you knock a buckle slot and rivits or snaps, of course they get to see your secret to wetting and bending the leather for the buckle. Some folks will pay for it and come back by later to pick it up. I'd rather lop off the tooling you've done on the end that wont be seen when worn, But that's just me. I know you're probably tiered of this job by now. Go getum, GH

I know there are others with opinions that will differ from mine,What's new? But I highly caution folks from using griders and sand papers on these fine tools.Those who do professional sharpening usually have very fine stones that will be the exception,I have seen and do own tools that have seen better days way before their time. Many of you have heard the term 'strop, strop strop'. I agree that when you get a new cutting tool it may need an inicial edge put on it and therefore need the use of high abracives. But ones you have a anagle and a good edge all you should need is a good strop. I started out using a lace that I pinned to the top of my cutting table but it too often would wiggle just enough to make it hard to a series of good passes. I later took a 4" board and glued a piece of skirting to it. Used my gouge to make a set of 'beeds' that fit the sizes of my edgers. I apply rouge to them and begin stropping. As Marlon said dragging way from the cutting edge(same as stropping a swivel knife) once I feel I have a sufficient stropped edge I use the lace on my cutting table to strop the reverse side of the edger lightly to polish off the bur that is created by the stropping on the other side. It has also been my experience that using a buffing wheel will round the clean edge you just put on your edger.Take care there. What I am calling our 'fine' tools are the tools we use for finish work, how ever I do own some near turn of the century knives that have a lot of miles left in them and look near new, and I have some twenty year old Gomph knives that have been ground to the nub from improper sharpening techniques. Again in my opinion and experience, think twice about using stones and abracive papers on your fine cutters. The biggest caution if you do use a motorized shapening system is to beware your speed which builds heat, and heat kills your edge. The pros who use stone wheels also turn at slower speeds than most grinder motors. Best to all, GH

RDB, they turned out great. Let me re-ask Art's question. For street fairs how do you determine sizes when you make up this many at a time? Do you just do whatever sizes and hope to have enough people in those sizes buy them. You don't mean you're going to 'cut them to length on street as in lop off the long end do you? GH

BB, I pretty much go with what Bruce said. I've never been into the quilted saddles so I can't help there either. Also agree that the seat re-do is not up to Porter standards. Good luck on your search. GH

Marlin, I have one of each. I only like the polished one, like Kevin, cause it's perdier. And it's easier to clean. If you felt you needed one polished I'd just start over and buy a polished one. I used to work in a mosolium polishing marble that was water stained. It's a bearcat to polish without the right equipment. Hay Darc, can I have that tree sittin on your slab??? HAAAA, fat chance right? GH

What is it you are making? Maybe you should be going to a chap leather which is supple to start with. Veg. tooling leather isn't really intended to be worn, though you can use whatever you choose. Not familiar with crocking. When I do want a softer veg. though, I use mink oil after neatsfoot and use a blo-dryer to help work it in. I do it with bags and boots. Frankly, for something I need water resistance for I start out with a waxy hot stuffed latago and save myself the trouble since the effect I want has been done for me. I just refresh the hide with warming mink oil as I mentioned when it needs it. GH

Wolv, I really think you have to work from the top down. The way you are going now I bet you will have a lot of puckers to deal with. The only way I can articulate it is that you have to fit your top to the conture of the top edges of the foam. You are dealing with compound curves, the pad curves down in a vertical direction while it makes it's turn at the corners in a horizontal direction. So as Davit said, you have to fit the side to the top in order to control the leather that you want to fit to the contours. I like your idea of the back panel with the Magna logo, that could help you fit things, but you still have to watch how things come together at those two points(top corners of the back panel. Your other issue will be tucking things under where the bottom of the front cusion curves up, which I don't think will be a big deal. Do what David suggested with the tape, and that should cive you the shape you need for the side piece. I still say you can do some wet forming with tooing leather, but do whatever you feel confidant with. Hang in there you'll get it. GH