Hidemechanic

Outstanding KK, I have a couple questions,(Scout got one) 1.what foot do you use to get next to the lettering? 2. I presume the lettering is on top and applied for your 3-D effect? 3. when you make your card pockets, is each leather piece that is visuble attached to a lighter piece of material inside the pocket?(less bulk) They lay quite well. In the past I went to using premade card pckets to reduce bulk. I think I need a different maching for that kind of work. Great job. That Irish boy had better be damn proud. GH

I have an old Herford like that, they were real good at fitting a lot of horse types. Are those flints ones you built? That's another craft I wish I had the patience for. I admire the heck out of the carving and googahs that go on some of the extravegant ones. Nice plain one gets exciting too.GH

I was gonna say the same thing, but Randy beat me to it. I'm working on a box to send my son, near Taji(2-25th,2-14 Cav, Strykers). Where you at? We call those a hook for a hook and awl stitcher as Randy mentioned. That's what I use too in an awl half handle. Keep your gator up and the sand out of your ears. GH

Lucky Dog. That is too nice for critters.GH

Rod and Denise, I would veture to say that there are no lines for prospective tree makers because there is little recognition, no glory, no romance for the craft as is with saddles. Once a tree is covered thoughts of the tree maker fade to the shadows. I don't recall any contests or divitions as in the Cowboy Artisens judging, or recognition for the top honours in the tree makers catagory. Too bad really. I'm probably too old to start new with something like that now, I'm sure the aprenticeship and start up would with new tools and equipment would be prohibitive for me, but it seems there should be a way to promote the craft so as to draw more attention to younger crafters to take interest in the trade. Especially now that there is an established interest in high end trees. We can hope, right?GH

Pella, from the research I have done with my limited library, the stirrup you are looking for is an unbound military stirrup that you can get from Weaver Leather. You could leave it bare or cover it with a hood or short tapadaro and be reasonably period correct. Do you have a picture of your out fit? I'd like to see it. Good luck and have a blast on your ride.GH

Rod, I agree with JR that crash and burns are beyond the perview of the tree maker to be responsible for tree damage. That's like saying there is some maufacture's defect because my Ford got totaled when it got wrapped around a tree. Too many saddles have been worked to death and the trees have held up well, infact most of those trees have out lived the saddlemaker's work. The damage I have seen from typical use; -Horse being loaded into a trailer with a saddle on, horn hit the top of the trailer. -Runaway horses through the woods. -Roll overs or fall backwards on a saddle. -Getting stopped when the saddle was on the ground. One runaway the horn and swell hit a number of low branches, the horn only recieved damage. " " " " " the bar cracked at the stuirrup slot. Frankly the others, roll overs and stomps the same damage occured for the most part. Stirrup slots. In some very old trees 80yrs+with the dovetailed cantle and swell were knocked lose and tore some rawhide but the saddles were still in service, just noticed that they had some give when you test for broken tree. Many of the broken bars I have seen were broken where you could see that the saddlemaker had scoared the rawhide when cutting stirrup slots. That part of the rawhide was almost always torn with a big crack in the bar very near it. So as for the weak spot of a saddle tree I would say is the stirrup slot or the narrowest part of the bars. As for testing. I have seen pics of a mfg. using an apparatis like an arbor press. With gauges to record #, presure was applied at the bars in the seat, I believe the ends of the bars were blocked up to bridge the center. Downward pressure in the middle of the swell. The bars were afixed to a base and forward tension was placed on the horn as though dallied up. Sorry I don't recall any numbers from the conclution of these tests. But going back to what JR was eluding to, rawhide trees have been made for at least a couple hundred years, in the past hundred there has been some inovation with the structural improvement of the western saddle tree and those that were built in a quality manor have held up quite well when used for the purpose for which the were made. I think the trees that need testing are the ones in which design and materials have been changed from the traditional. I look forward to hearing the coments of others. GH

Concerning a rawhide tree, what have your experiences been with the 'A' grades of trees that some mfgs offer and what do you feel are the advantages one over the other. 'A' grade; sewn with nylon lace, stapled cantle-gullet 'AA' grade; sewn with rawhide lace, stapled cantle-gullet 'AAA' grade;sewn with rawhide lace, hand tacked in cantle-gullet and laced at the swell-bar joint and cantle-bar joint Peronally , with staples being used in wood working more nowadays I'd like to hear why they would be a problem for saddle trees. Another thing I'd like to hear about is if you ever get a tree that you had to reset the tacks because they weren't set against the wood. Perhaps they pulled away during drying. I did have that happen and when I reset the tacks some of the heads popped off. Any experiences in that area?

Garry, don't just look here, check in the community where you live for leatherworkers. GH

Hey Beez, what if you were going to have a different color lace wouldn't you want to dye your lace edges, do the lacing then finish dying after lace is done? Or have you guys been talking about black and I missed it? GH

It's actually a common way of skinning smaller hides. I'll try not to be too graphic, but you hang them upside down, slice the inside of the leg from one side to the other after cutting around the hock area, then start skinning with the opening you just made. Goes from the hind end of the animal to the head end. It comes off inside out but that's where you start salting it to dry. You end up with a tube shaped hide. GH

rdb, It's all in who you man...GH

How rough is it? There are a few ways, you could order the thickness you need and good piece shouldn't be fuzzy. If you have a splitter you can pick a heavier piece and slit it down to the size you want and that should smooth the back if it's a good piece to start with. If no splitter, you can use a sander. If no sander, you could (again with a heavier piece) dampen the back and hand skive it carefully. If it isn't too fuzzy you could rub it with beeswax. I have a sole finisher that has a fat piece of hard wood I have grooved for burnishing, on the wider part I load with wax and press the back of whatever I want to smooth down. I'm sure there will be other suggestions. Hope there's something here that is helpfull.GH

We do have some members from your side of the pond, maybe they will jump in here with some suggestions for you, other resources. Like I say, the more you handle the stuff the more you figure out what you need. I understand that you are limited because of your situation, it's gotta be frustrating. I would check around to see if someone closer to you is doing leather work that could help you out. You might try going to Siegle of California web site and others, look at the pics and read descriptions. That should help you figure out better what to ask for when you do order from Brittland.Good luck with that, GH

Syd, I don't know what you are working on, but if you are talking about tooling you dont' want to use split. I don't have much use for splits anyway(maybe line a belt if the split is firm temper). If you want to do items in 'rough out' then use a regular hide but the rough side out. The rough side san be 'tooled' but you don't get near the detail as with tooling on the grain side. As WWine said you have to really look over a split hide to be sure it is strong enough for what you want to use it for because different splits can be less durable than others. Let us know what you are working onand we can give you more specific info. You need to be careful what info you hear from the people in the stores (refer to Johanna's pole on working at Tandy) some sales people may tell you things that they are repeating because they are there to sell but if you can find someone who works with the stuff they sell then they will be able to give you info based on experience in the craft. Nothing against sales folks but if you are new to the craft you want to talk to someone who knows what they are talking about before you spend money on something that may not be what you wanted. You are doing good coming here and researching , but you have to get your hands of the hide too, to get a feel for things. Keep at it, you'll get there. GH

StevenS, What's the chances this is horse butt?GH

Yeh, I started getting inventive with the tools I used to set them. I will use a center punch to start them them the mushrooming tool, have to watch the angle of force or you'll split them down one side and goes to heck on you. I have learned the word fineness applies to so many areas in our life.GH

I don't think anyone is casting dispersions on the bed liner trees. I've always liked the idea just someone got to it before I did(as usual) I personally think however that there just have not been any inclusive or conclusive testing to ultimately prove the actual charactoristics of the material. At this point, what we know about it is anecdotal at best. And, I agree I haven't worked on any saddles that have been run over by trucks. But I have worked on saddles that have been stomped by a horse , hit from the front by runaway horses through trees, rolled on by horses, and fallen on by a horse that fell over backwards. Sometimes that damage or lack of, may be related to the type of cantle and horn( and swell). Point being that to me we need to see more testing of limits on these saddles that relate more to the true abuse a saddle will recieve. Most any R/D of that sort would need to be with tree makers and saddle makers who can track the conditions under which these saddles are used. After a time, tare them down and docmet the effects. I also believe to make a true comarision we need to have the trees made to the same standard and compare rawhide over bed liner. Also there would need to be a comparision of different bed liners and a standard of application of them. If that ever happens it will be years before the stats are in. At this point I don't have a problem using bed liner trees for endurance and pleasure trees but I am not confident putting my name on a tree(bed liner) that will be used for heavy ranch work or arena work. That's just me. I recall one tree mfg. using an apparatus for testing different stress tolerences on trees that more closely represented the abuse a saddle tree may encounter, I might go for that in place of a long term test. I agree that the line-x is tough, I want to see the testing in saddle tree applications. I saw the testing with fiberglass trees and encased trees and though they pass with high marks in most areas the one I don't like is the flex test. Too rigid for me, and as I mentioned earlier they still have a stigma to overcome that I don't want to take on by myself. For the same reason I limit my intrest in using the bed liner trees for my saddles. Nothing personal toward anyone just my type of quality control. More sharing of ideas. GH

I'm thinking the main reason is, if you are right handed it gives you a better angle to punch your stitch holes, I guess you could call it urganomic or whatever. If you try it you may see that it is more comfortable to stitch from that angle from above rather than on a level.( I think it is easier on your elbow joint) If you're left handed you may want to reverse the angla of the clamp. Hope that helps.GH

I was trying to figure out something for a light box once, was walking through a local home improvement store and saw some small florecent strip lights on sale in a 4 pack. I walked down another isle with plastic containers and saw a storage container that was opaic. I attatched a few of the lights to the inside of the lid and put the bottom on the lid (up side down and viola, I have a light box. Nothin fancy bot it works. Think I might try it with the glass like you guys mentioned though.GH

Pics might help ,just to get a better idea of how far their 'tanningprocess went, I'll pass on the scratch-n-sniff. I don't think you are going to get rid of the smell anytime soon. If it is really strong that you don't want to use it, your best bet may be to coat it in spar varnish and stand it in a corner as you new African art piece. For something like that I don't know why they didn't brain instead of urine. Good luck, GH

Thanks David. Busted, you got a picture of that seat somewhere? GH

I'm with Jordan. I also will use a too that fits that area of the snap and tap it down, you don't want to mash the leather (may damage the grain side) but you want to try to compress it. Sometimes it works when you're already close. Good luck, GH

Well I'd still try to at least hang out with the saddlemaker you know and see what you can glean from him as he works.(you'll see the turms you hear come to life) Aside from that I would suggest you get ahold of a saddle or two that you can carefully tare down, see how things work. Apply your book learning to what you see and put the saddle back together. You gotta get your feet wet but starting from scratch with a brand new saddle could end up more costly and frustrating in the long run because of mistakes you will inevitable make. You know that saddle I posted the picture of? I probably built that thing three times. I didn't like the way something was going so I tore it off and did a new one. That happened with several pieces of the saddle. But I must say that was not the first saddle I had worked on. I did many repairs before that, each one becoming more involved than the next to the point that I was able to uderstand the 'makings' of a saddle. If you do use other saddles you need to learn the dif between the short cuts that commercial saddle co. use as opposed to how a custom saddle is done. Keep learning but try not to get so axious that you skip some important steps. I have no doubt that you have confidance in your abilities, and you may surpraise everyone with your first saddle. Good luck. GH

David, are all your seats for HD and or do they have a mount adapter that might accomadate a more generic fit? Know what I mean? I see the same post patern on all your seats. Thanks GH