jwwright

Huntet.................you're headed in the right direction.........a Wade is one type of slick fork. As for a Wade being out of the way for roping / as opposed to a swell fork ? Not in my opinion. It doesn't have anything to do with it. If the fork was getting in my way roping...........I'd know that I wasn't roping very good and needed more practice. Swell fork...........slick fork..........it's all about personal preference. I don't like a slick fork of any kind. I've had a couple (wades) over the years..........one of which I made. They rode just fine...............but I just couldn't get to liking how they looked. Too buckaroo for me, probably. JW.

Hi Joel............this is a personal preference decision. You have already made some of the major decisions............you mentioned you'd like a slick fork, with regular cantle binding, and round skirts. Now, it is just a matter of deciding what exact type of slick fork you'd prefer.............wade, 3B, etc.,,,,,,,,,,,,,cantle height...........decoration and so on. Any of the saddle makers frequenting this board would do a good job for you, and help you work out the details. JW

Huntet.................The names you mentioned are just names given to types of shapes of swells / forks. A Wade is one type of slick fork. A Will James, Assoc., Mod Assoc are all swell forks. Most tree makers make their own version of all the fork styles you mentioned, and many more. The quality of the tree has nothing to do with the "style" of fork.....................a good tree maker, such as Rod / Denise Nikkel, or Jon Watsabaugh, or any other handmade tree makers visiting here (I don't intend to slight anyone) can make a very high quality tree in just about any style a person wants. JW

JW, I'm glad you saw that line running uphill. It seems like I always struggle with that line. I don't know why I have so much trouble with it. As far as the dyed edges go I pretty much dye all my edges except when it is a contract saddle or the customer doesn't want it. I just like the look of it personally. I think it gives a nice finished look to a saddle. Chas Weldon told me here recently that he didn't like the "painted" look that it gave a saddle, but I guess it is just a difference of opinion. Tell me what you think. Ross...........I understand having a little trouble getting that line. I had a hard time with it for a while, and I still get one a little more uphill than I intended once in a while. For me, what is helpful is..............when I am fitting the seat, and have cuts around the swell done, I then put my rear housing jockeys on the saddle, and draw them down tight as they would be on the finished saddle. Then, I make sure I have the saddle sitting on the stand at the same angle as it would be on the average horse. I use the bottom edge of the rear housing jocks as a guide to getting a level paralell line to the front of the saddle, and make a couple light reference marks on the seat jockey. I have a couple of templates with seat jockey shapes that I like, and use them as reference for marking those lines. I'm sure there are better, easier ways to get it done......but this is what I came up with to help with consistantcy on that line. On the edge dying.............I think your saddles look good with it. I have dyed some on show saddles, and some ranch/performance saddles upon request. I did a couple with brown color that I liked. I think it's sure a personal preference thing, and I don't know that I have a preference on that...........but I do have a preference for nice saddles like this one you've shown us. JW

Most of the saddle I build are for ranch cowboys and professional trainers of cowhorses, cutters and ranch competition horses........many times a combination of all those............my background is likewise. In the course of training horses for a living for 30 years, I did do some arena calf roping when I was much younger. So, based on this information, take what I have to say for what it's worth. I agree with everything that Bruce pointed out. For trees, if you are considering a true handmade tree, I know that Rod Nikkel and Jon Watsabaugh are both building calf roping and team roper trees. For swell shape, the OY and TMs have been popular for many years. The Dee Picket (DP) swells are something that I like in a saddle like this also. Most prefer a lower gullet height on these as well..............7 1/4" or 7 1/2". JW

Real nice job Ross. I agree with aermotor about the width of the seat jockey under the swell.................I think it's because your line there runs uphill a little bit in comparison to the rest of your lines. A very nice saddle overall though. Do you edge dye as a matter of course on every saddle, or only do so upon customer request? JW

The McCall saddles have Timberline trees in them, these are production trees.........the same folks that build the McCalls also build the Timberline trees. I guess it depends upon how you want to define "handmade" and "production".. ........................Handmade to me means that the saddle was built by one saddle maker in one shop, no clicked out parts, no preformed fiberglass strainers, etc. By that definition, then McCall saddles are production saddles, but no doubt among the better production saddles. Standard bar configuration on the Timberline / McCalls is 90 degree / 4" handhole / 6 1/4" gullet. JW

Many Thanks All. She is a fine young woman, and she married a very good man. She has already accomplished much in her life. We are proud of her, and thankful that God gave us the privilege of raising her. Bondobob....................we got a bonus with this addition to our family. 3 grandkids! Our son in law had been raising 3 little ones on his own since his first wife abandoned the family a couple years ago. They don't live far away, so they spend quite a bit of time here with us. JW

This is what an old cowpuncher / saddle maker looks like dancing with his daughter on her wedding day. JW

Certainly is work to aspire to. Thanks, JW

You will need to take the rear housing jockeys and skirts off, and the fork cover as well. Of course the fenders/stirrup leathers also. Peeling the seat back , but not cutting off the cantle binding and completely removing the seat would work. Depending on how well the glue is stuck on the seat, sometimes peeling the seat back without pulling up ground seat leather can be a trick. After tear down you could then remove existing rigs front and back, and design your pattern for the plate rig and install. It's a fairly big over haul for someone to start out on, but everyone's got to jump in somewhere. JW

I agree. The articles that Pete wrote are filed away with my other reference material. I always try to read or watch all the videos, articles and books written by other saddle makers. I think that most saddle makers develop their own particular way of doing things as they go along, I know that I have, but it's always great to see how others are doing things, as sometimes you can see something that you can use to improve your own work. I have done a few ground seats using the 2 piece metal strainer method that Pete demonstrates. I do my build up pieces a little differently, but I like that method. JW

just bumping this thread back up.............there were a couple folks that posed questions for Steve that I don't think he saw. JW

That's a good looking rig Ty. From your previous postings, I gather that you build primarily for cowpunchers, as I do. I like your style. JW.

Janice, it sounds like all you need to do would be to install the stirrup leathers so that the grain side will be down going over the bars of the tree. I personally see no problem with that, and there are several well respected saddle makers that I know of that routinely install the stirrup leathers that way on new saddles. I have done so a number of times on new full rough out saddles , with no problems. One more suggestion.....................on those 1/2 stirrup leathers like this, I also sew a W shape stitch line there at the top of the fender where the stirrup leather joins.................in addition to the rivets. Hope this helps, JW.

CW..................good choice. A Will James is my favorite swell shape, and it's a good one to get your boy started with.......................a good Texas cowpuncher influence.

Good for you CW...............what kind of tree do you have on order? JW

Hi Pete..........there is a difference between a blind stitch, and a one piece welt. With a blind stitch, the seam in the swell cover is sewn together on the backside of the swell cover, with the cut in the swell cover, the seam butted together. With a one piece welt, you add a 15 oz. or so thickness of leather down the seam, as shown in your Stohlman books you referenced. If by chance, you fit the swell cover as shown in the Stohlman book for a one piece welt, and then did a blind stitch without the 15 oz. welt piece, your swell cover would be too tight, and that would be your problem. JW

Pete........how are you executing the seams on the swells..................blind stitch, one piece welts, or folded welts? the Stohlman books you referenced show the one piece and folded welts, but not the blind stitch as I recall. Knowing what method you are using will help give some direction. JW

Great stuff Steve. JW

Very nice Andy. JW

CW and Bob..........Thanks for your generous comments. JW

Thanks for the flowers guys. Billy, I sew that inside of the rigging ring on my machine, carefully. I've built about 8 saddles using this ring hardware on the plate rigs...........as opposed to the usual plate hardware. Still tweaking on that inside radius, and not quite completely happy with it's appearance yet. I, like most folks, spend alot of time on the seats. This one has a little less rise at the front than some. Thanks. Edward, I believe that there is a video clip on youtube, or somewhere I saw, that shows Chas Weldon doing some restoration work on one of Will James' old saddles. Probably could find it with a search. Thanks. Ross, your comments, coming from a cowboy saddle maker as yourself, mean alot . Thanks. Ben, in between the diamonds on the billets is a seeder dot. I use the same seeder in making the diamond pattern that is on the other stamped portions of this saddle, and I thought it fit. Thanks. Chuck, Thanks. Got enough rain down your way? It's sure been wet here, unusually so this far into summer.............but it's made grass. JW

I finished this one up a few days ago. It's a Will James fork 13" wide, 15 1/2" finished seat length, 3 1/2" cantle and #7 horn. I finally got around to building this one for myself to use...........at least untill I sell it out from under myself, as I seem to have a habit of doing. JW

Joel, I would suggest J Watt's dvd set next..............JW.