jwwright

Congrats! on numero uno.........JW

Weazer..........................I understand where you are coming from as a saddle buyer. There is a lot of confusion out there among the potential saddle buying public, and I will address here what I think is one of the main contributors to that confusion...................and the source of much concern among true shop made, hand made saddle makers on this price subject. What you and many other potential saddle buyers may not realize is this: There are a substantial number of what I will call "saddle production contractors / factories" somewhat scattered about the country, but with a high concentration of them in Texas, and specifically North East Texas. They produce saddles for many different "name brand" saddle businesses.........including quite a few who have in their name "so and so custom" and "handmade". You can walk in to some of these (saddle production contractors) shops, and see many different "maker" stamps that they put on saddles, depending upon which "maker" ordered the saddle. Some of the "so and so custom handmade" saddle businesses that place contracts with these "contractors" don't even have a shop of any kind of their own, nor have ever made a saddle. There are also quite a few saddle businesses with "so and so custom handmade" type names, that do have a shop of their own, but they employ others (mostly good folks of hispanic nature) to build the saddles. As I , and others see it, here is the problem with the above . There exists some of these "so and so handmade saddlery" proprietors who lead folks to believe that they have a shop, and either they or their employees build the saddles , when in fact they do not. They have no saddle production shop, and simply take orders, place them with a "production / contractor" , have their maker stamp put on them, deliver the saddle and collect the funds. There are also other proprietors who have a shop, employ the good hispanic folks to make them, but lead folks to believe that they are a small handmade saddle shop, where they themselves actually build saddles. There is quite a bit of deception going on sometimes, either by what they do or don't say. Some of the good hispanic folks working in the various types of shops I've mentioned are very talented, hard working people, but are taken advantage of and paid next to nothing, so the saddle business proprietor can sell an apparently low priced saddle and make a good profit for themselves. I had the proprietor of one such business tell me that he paid the folks building saddles around $7 -8 per hour........but, he had made an exception just that week and was paying one saddle maker $10 per hour (the most he said he had ever paid anyone), because this feller could build one complete saddle per day. That conversation was about 3 years ago, and I don't suppose much has changed. Secifically Weazer, I have personal knowledge of a few of the saddle businesses that you mentioned. I will only comment on one..........Bill Howe (246 ranch saddlery) is a true handmade saddle maker, and builds a very well made saddle. I have not visited with him in a couple years, but it is my understanding that he is retired, and currently building about one saddle per month because he enjoys it, and to supplement his retirement. I truly hope that your saddle buying journey has lead to a decision that will provide you with a saddle that enjoy for a long time. JW

Thanks All for the comments. Bruce, I do like full length tie straps boths sides. Been riding them that way myself for many years, and it's my standard on orders, unless I'm told otherwise. Ross, I had a request to do that. I'm doing a little more of the double stitched billets on cowpuncher rigs. One of those personal preference deals, and I let the customer decide. I personally kind of like the way it goes along with double stitched skirts and riggins. JW

Thanks for the kind words. Butch...............this particular saddle has a welted fork cover, and I have done quite a few with either rawhide or roo braid. I build them like the customer wants them, and quite a few folks see the braided swells and like the look. I have not had a durability problem with either option. For a saddle that is sure nuff going to be used by a cowpuncher, it's going to take some abuse. More with some guys. Trailering saddled horses, tossing a saddle on the steel flatbed of a truck, etc. For those, I prefer either welts, or rawhide braid. Dennis............those stirrup leathers are twisted and wrapped. I do that on all saddles, unless the customer specifies differently, and some don't want it. It's the same method as what Andy was showing you in your other thread. I usually use latigo to wrap with, and I take the tail of the wrap, after the wraps are on, and pull it tight down under the wraps. Frankly, I have found that after the leather is dry and twist is set, the wraps don't really need to even be there. JW

I have not posted much of anything for a couple months, but I have been busy in the shop. This is one I finished last week. Thanks, JW

Something that was suggested to me was to run a stitch marker on the back side, as well as the front.........and, I "start" each hole with my awl on the back side about 1/3 depth, before I make the hole coming from the front side. That helps me quite a bit. Although I can't say mine are as perfect as the photo you posted, they usually come out pretty nice. You could always put a "hidden stitch" binding on...........I have done those quite a bit. JW

Hi Mike............kewl saddle. We have one in our little collection from the same era, made at Broken Horn. I believe that a good silversmith could change out the letters on the cantle plate. I am fairly sure that this silver is sterling electroplate, and could be cleaned up with any good silver polish. I hope your daughter enjoys the saddle. JW

Very nice stuff Luke. JW

Joe.........Herman Oak has been the gold standard within the industry for a long time, and probably more custom makers are using HO than any other, at least for those building ranch rigs. However, I sure don't mean to imply that it is the only good choice, or even the best. Of the various skirting leathers I've used, Herman Oak has been the most consistant, and that is what I continue to use. In the past few months, I have visited with other saddle maker friends who are using skirting from Thoroughbred, Sadesa, and Chahin. All were very pleased with these leathers for cutability, moldability and especially for yeild from the hides. JW

Very Kewl.

Hi Bruce...................please educate me regarding the two lines of stitching.......as you said, one to hold the plugs, the other to hold the lining. I sew one line of stitching, and it goes through both the plugs and the lining. I use contact cement to put the plugs in, and rubber cement to glue the lining down, so when the day comes that it needs to be re-lined, the repair man should be able to remove the lining without tearing out the plugs. Thanks, JW.

Mark, I make some step in leggins.........I guess they would be called a shotgun / batwing hybrid. I lace them shut from right below the knee up. Below that I use a couple straps with clip snaps, so they can be secured when working on the ground, or riding a colt on a windy day. They can be fitted for a good fit around the thigh this way, and still be able to get them on / off with boots & hooks on. I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but hope it is helpful. JW

There are some other threads covering this topic under the supplies section. Looking through there might be helpful to you. Most of us use stainless steel nails......smooth, twisted, and/or ring shank. These can be purchased from Sheridan Leather Outfitters in one pound or great quantities. Blue tacks are available quite a few places including Weaver's, and Panhandle Leather. Hope this helps, JW.

I have a handmade tree for sale. It was made by Randy Alexander. Randy is the owner of Timberline Saddle Tree, and this is what Randy calls his Premium tree. It was not made in the production Timberline shop, but according to Randy, built and rawhided by Randy. The specs are: Seat length: 16" Gullet: 7 1/2" high, 6 1/4" wide, 4" handhole width. Cantle: 4 1/2" high, round, 12" wide, 1 1/4" Dish Wood Post Horn : 3" tall, 4" cap Price is $350..........................email me at: bluestem82 at aol dot com . Thanks, JW

Bruce did remind me of another place I use ring shanks..............strainer tins.

Nice work with great lines as usual Steve. I really like the buckstitched roll on the fork cover. JW

CW...........I use all the above. Blue Tacks, Stainless Nails, and Stainless Ring Shank nails. I primarily use some ring shanks around the edges of the finished ground seat, and a few in the cantle of the finished ground seat. I use blue tacks most other places like the swell cover, and skirt lugs. I use regular smooth stainless nails primarily in tight places like along the bottom edge of the cantle back where it meets the bars. I also use these when fitting parts, because they won't stain wet leather. Hope this helps. JW

Very kewl............When I was that young man's age, I never roped good enough to have a can like that. Sounds like he does. If yer gonna be fancy, better be a wolf! JW

Alan, that is a very unusal saddle for Bob Marrs. I have never seen a charro style saddle made by him. I am sure that you will figure a way to re rig it properly, but...................it might be interesting to know how Bob rigged it originally. I have not seen him for a couple years, but as far as I know he is still building some saddles at his house near Amarillo. JW

I have 4 new trees for sale. These are all made by Bowden Saddle Tree Co. one each of the following: 16" Will James , 16" BW Roper , 16" BW Roper (full QH bars) , 15 1/2" BW Roper. These are all good trees, and new. PM or email if interested. Thanks, JW

Denise........if I understand correctly, you were asking about material only costs. For materials only which includes, tree, skirting, latigo, woolskin, thread, hardware, glue, standard galv. bound wood stirrups, ..... I spend $1200 to $900. The difference is variable tree cost. JW

I guess I missed this earlier................I like it! nice work. JW

Of the "factory" trees I've built on, the Bowdens have been the best in my opinion. I have not built on Sonny Felkins Quality Mfg factory trees, so I can't compare with those. Bowden tree company has been in business a long time, and Lord knows how many thousands of saddles are in use every day with those trees in them. The customers who have saddles that I built on Bowden trees like them, and use them very hard.....they are professional horsemen/women and full time ranch cowboys. I personally had 2 saddles with Bowden trees in them that I used cowboying out of daily for several years and got along with real well. That said, there certainly is a difference between them and good true handmade trees, such as those I use from Jon Watsabaugh, and a big difference in price as well. A person just needs to decide whether the difference is justified for their individual situation. JW

Weazer, I don't know anything about the person you mentioned.

Weazer...........I don't know of any true handmade saddle makers that have a base price in the range you mentioned. There very well may be some, but none I am familiar with. For a new saddle in that price, you are looking at production saddles.....but that might work for you. However, while I do know of several production/ semi custom operations that build on Timberline trees.......again, none in the price range you listed. I guess my best advice would be, for the money you wish to spend, is a good used saddle. JW