neelsaddlery

Hello: From what I see from the photos that you have provided, you should look at a heavy weight machine made for sewing heavy leather. Definitely something with an oscillating hook, something that will handle heavy thread. The heavier the machine will sew, the heavier the thread it will use. We offer a machine called a Cowboy Model CB-4500 machine. This machine is made to sew up to 3/4 thick, with thread up to size 554. Comparable models would be the Cobra Class 4, as well as the Artisan Toro 4000. From what i see in the photos you would not want to use a lighter weight machine for this type of work. It looks like a machine like the 227 may be a bit too small, and as this machine does have a smaller bobbin, if you use a heavier thread, you will be constantly changing bobbins. It is better to have a machine that is more than capable of doing the task than to take one that you would be working to death to get the job done. The cylinder arm on the 441 machine is about 3 inches in diamater. Not sure if you plan on sticking the work inside the arm of the machine, but if you do, please make a note of the larger arm diameter on the machine. I see also some of the handles on the pads seem to be pretty thick. These could easily be sewn on a heavier machine, with larger needles, and with a thick thread. Anyhow, just wanted to throw in my two cents worth. If you have any additional questions on machines to do your job, please contact me by phone at (330) 692-1418. Kindest Regards, Ryan O. Neel Neel's Saddlery and Harness Cowboy Sewing Machines

Toledo sells a lot of the Cowboy brand sewing machines, as well as a large selection of used machinery and they are also dealers for most of the major brands such as Adler and Consew and many others. They are one of our biggest dealers for Cowboy Sewing Machines.

You might want to go to a place called Bogle Greenwell machinery in Dallas, TX. He carries a very good line of machinery from quite a few different sellers. Ask for Rae Bogle. Tell him Ryan Neel sent you. Phone number is (972) 262-8652. Good customer service too. For the money, in my mind, you would be better off to go with a longer arm machine. The difference in price is about $200.00 from a short arm to a long arm, but if you ever decide to sell it, you'll get at least 40 percent more for the longer arm. It will appeal to a much wider audience. You can also check some of our machines at our website, which is www.cowboysew.com

If you want to go with a motorized machine, you might want to take a good look at the Cowboy Model 7441. It is an excellent machine that will sew heavy leathers and also sew at a very slow and controllable pace. Check out our website and contact information below. Hope this is of some help to you.

The 7-33 machines now are not bringing what they used to bring, mainly because Singer has totally abandoned them with regard to offering any spare parts. I seen many 7 class heads go for sale at the Weaver auction for under $200.00 We sell a new clone of the Singer 7 class for around $1800.00 new with stand, motor, table, and machine head. But, if you have a good clean machine, it is worth keeping it. There are not many machines that will sew as heavy as the 7-33 machine will.

Hello: I think it would be hard to find a buyer for a 97-10 if it were in the $2500.00-$3500.00 price range. I have seen a lot of these machines go at the Weaver auction for $1000.00 or less. The 97-10 can be converted to use the 794 needle system. But after the conversion it will only sew 5/8" thick. My advice is to sell the machine for what you can get out of it, and then call the sellers of the 441 class machines. We all have sold a pile of these 441 clones over the years, and the customer service you'll get from Cowboy, Cobra, or Artisan is top notch. Basically, the only decision to make involves who is offering the best deal at the time, with the most extras. Hope this is of some help to you. If you have any additional questions, please let me know.

The Boss is a good machine for the hobby minded person. If you have a choice, go with the cast iron casting, as these do seem to have a bit better quality with regard to parts. We used to sell the Boss sewing machines, and it was explained to us at the time of the switch that the aluminum casting and zinc extruded parts were incorporated into the design to reduce machine time and costs. Not that this is a bad thing, but I seem to hear from a lot of folks that the cast iron machines were the ones to have. Just my 2 cents worth.

Particle: Do you plan to sew heavier with the machine? Will you ever go over 3/8" thick with it. If so, then you may need to look into a bigger machine. The prices on these machines are now lower than ever. If you need used, there are also some good deals on used equipment if you know where to look.

Hello: One other thing to look for is if the machine has a replaceable horn on the end. Some of the 29 series models did not have a replaceable horn. The horn was simply cast as a part of the main casting body. If the horn is replaceable, it will be a polished metal color. If it is not replaceable, then it will be just the color of the casting. By horn, I mean the end of the cylinder arm where the bobbin goes in. Because these machines are getting so old, the ones that have the replaceable horn are the better choice, as you can replace these when they wear out, and they eventually will. The ones that did not have the replaceable horn can get awful sloppy in the shuttle area due to years of use. Hope this is of some help to you.

I think it will be hard to find a dealer who wants to take these 204 machines in on trade. One thing to consider is that there are now clone machines of the 204 being offered from China for much less than the Adler selling price new. The quality of these clones is excellent. We sell a flatbed clone of this machine for $3300.00 new. There are also other dealers who have them as well. If you plan to buy it just for trading it in, it might now be worth it. My advice would be to save up for the machine you really want first. There are great deals to be had on the the 441 clones (cylinder arm) now.

Hello: I think a common everyday good ol' fashioned pancake style air compressor would work just fine. Sears and harbor freight both have them.

Hello again all: It seems my post about our new pricing structure as well as improvements to our CB-4500 machines have sparked interest and attention from quite a few people. I am am grateful for all of your support and inquires, and for this I thank you. Steve brought up some very good points in his posting about the different levels of machine quality in the overseas factories. It is true that the quality can very quite widely. Steve made some comments indicating the possibility that competitors may have switched manufacturing facilities in attempt to buy lesser grade machines for lower prices and hence sell them for lower pricing points in the market. While I cannot speak for "the others," Cowboy Sewing Machines has always made a steadfast committment to uphold the highest standards of quality in the business. THERE HAVE BEEN NO CHANGES IN OUR FACTORY OF ORIGIN, AND ALL COWBOY SEWING MACHINES ARE MANUFACTURED IN OUR OWN FACTORIES WHICH ANSWER DIRECTLY AND ONLY TO US. That I am aware of, we are the only company in the USA which owns a direct stake in the manufacturing facilites which build our machines. I am deeply and directly involved in all stages of the production process. If you will take the time to visit our website, you will see that Cowboy Sewing Machines is registered as a joint-venture enterprise between Neel's Saddlery and Harness (my company) and our overseas partner. I am listed as the head engineer and technical designer for the company. I oversee all aspects of quality control. design, and production. You can be rest assured that when you buy a Cowboy from me, you will receive the best machine that your money can buy. The best quality parts, the best machining, the best casting, the best painting, and the best final assembly and sew off in the business. We also have made many technological improvements to our machines which we feel make it the best choice for the buy looking to get not only an affordable machine, but the what we feel is the best machine that is available in the market today. Many of you may know Ed Santoro, who posts quite frequently here on the leatherworker.net and also is the founder of Walden Bags. Ed manufactures some of the finest bags and briefcases in the business. Ed chose Cowboy Sewing Machines and Neel's Saddlery for most of the sewing machines that he runs in his shop. Ed has been very impressed with our level of customer service, and Ed and I have become close friends over our years of doing business together. Let's face it, in today's economy and in today's highly competitive market, you need to make certain that you not only are getting the best price, but also the best service possible. From those of you that have bought from me in the past, you know that my level of customer service is among the best in the industry. I also strive to be as available to my customers as I possibly can. If you need assistance after 5:00 pm, you can call me. If you need help on weekends and holidays, you can call me. Most folks that have bought machines from me know that I am there for their questions most any time, day and night -- even when I am on vacation, you know you can reach me!!!! Bad news travels fast, especially in the this small niche market. If I didn't do my level best and be as honest with my customers as possible with regard to what our machines will do and what they won't do, then my name would be mud!!!! In any event, I just wanted to provide some clarification as to where Cowboy was in all this, and I hope this was of some use to you. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to call or e-mail me any time. I can be reached toll free at 1-866-507-8926, or by e-mail at neelre@comcast.net Thank you

Forgot to mention that if anybody cannot see the attachment very well, please PM me and I will send you a clearer copy by e-mail.

Boy, there's a lot of love on this thread!!!!!

Hello all: Just wanted to post some information about our new and improved Cowboy Model CB-4500. We are now offering a promotional package on our 16.5 inch arm machine that we are confident is the best in the country. Technological improvements to the CB-4500 include: 1. Our new 44 pound Mega Flywheel. The largest in its class. Adds a tremendous amount of torque and punching power to the CB-4500, enabling it to punch through the heaviest of leather with ease. 2. Our exclusive titanium nitride coated shuttle hook. Our new titanium nitride coated hook will add years to the life of this most costly replacement part. The titanium nitride coating greatly improves wear resistance and overall performance with regard to the shuttle. 3. The highest presser foot lift in its class. The new CB-4500 now offers the highest presser foot lift in its class. A true 1 1/16" lift!!!!! We guarantee the machine to sew 3/4" thicknesses of the toughest leather with ease. 7/8" thick leather items are not out of reach for this machine either!!!! 4. Solid stainless steel presser feet and needle plates. Each Cowboy Model 3500 and 4500 is equipped with solid stainless steel needle plates and presser feet. We are the only manufacturer to offer these. No need to worry about chrome or zinc coatings that may peel, wear, or flake off. No need to worry about any type of rust or corrosion. Every plate and foot is polished to a bright mirror finish. 5. Every Cowboy Model 4500 is equipped with our cast iron thread wax/lube pot at no extra charge. 6. Improved speed reducer design. Our cast iron ball bearing speed reducers feature larger diameter pulleys and an improved bracket-slide design that is much larger than those offered on the market at present. No more worries about welds breaking or the bracket bending with this design. 7. PRICE, PRICE, PRICE!!!! We will not be undersold!!!! The price on our CB-4500 is the lowest in the country for the 16.5 inch 441 class machines. Our factory has authorized an incentive pricing package that is the best in the USA, period!!!! 8. WARRANTY, SERVICE, AND CUSTOMER SUPPORT. All Cowboy machines are backed by our Lifetime Limited Warranty, and unlimited use of our technical support hotline for machine operation and sewing tips. Service before, during, and after the sale is our top priority!!!! The above lists a few of the improvements we have made to the CB-4500. I will post more information as time goes on. We are in the process of developing some limited edition "high gloss black" versions of the CB-4500 with gold lettering and decal sets for those who like the "retro" look. Same great machine, just a different color!!!! We also will be posting some information about our new medium weight chap and light tack leather stitcher which we call the CB-628. This machine is a "beefed up" version of our Cowboy CB-618 machine. The machine will feature a fully automatic lubrication system as well as an increased presser foot lift. The presser foot lift on the machine is a full 5/8". Our next shipment of CB-4500 machines and the new CB-628 machines is due in the next two weeks. If you have been thinking about purchasing a heavy duty harness stitcher or chap machine, now is the time!!!! Prices are now at an all-time low, and we are not sure how long it will be until the Cowboy factory comes to its senses and tells us to quit giving these machines away!!!! Call us toll free at 1-866-507-8926 for additional information and pricing.

greggw: There are a couple of interesting facts that I would like to point out about your post: 1. You have been reading the leatherworker.net forums for over two years now and never have registered? That sounds a bit strange to me. Most people that read the forums on the leatherworker.net website are active members and also post regularly. 2. Interesting also that you chose to join the leatherworker.net website officially at 11:36 p.m. on the same day that Johanna put this post up about Artisan sewing machines. There have been some controversial posts about Artisan sewing machines in the past two years. Why not chime in then? 3. Also interesting that you mention you are from the Los Angeles area in California. This would be a convenient truth if anybody were ever to source the IP address of the computer that made this post. Could it come from the same region of the country as well? Folks, I have said it before and I will say it again. I think the leatherworker.net forum is too good of a website to trash up with a lot of propaganda about who is the better or more righteous person or company. Steve (Cobra) has his own merits, Artisan has their own merits, Cowboy has their own merits, and so do all of the other contributing dealers such as Campbell-Randall and any others whom I may have forgotten. And, I am sure if you look long enough and hard enough, you'll see folks who dislike us all!!!!! We all have advantages and disadvantages to each product we sell. It is up to the customer to decide which dealer is offering a product that is right for them. I grow tired of the leatherworker.net forums being used as a place where folks perform character assassination and attempt to undermine the credibility of each other. PLEASE NOTE: I don't want anybody to think that I am in support of any party here. That is not the case. I just think we should all try to get along without trashing up the website while we sort out our differences and alignments. Let's play nice people!!!!!

Bonded thread has a special coating applied to the outside of the thread that makes it more resistant to fraying. Bonded nylon is a better choice for sewing leather items in general as opposed to thread that does not have this coating.

A few tips for people: 1. Keep your machines oiled. Oil is very cheap insurance and can save you from hundred of dollars in repair bills. If you have an oil pumper machine, then change the oil at least once a year, and do not use motor oil. Use a clear oil specially made for sewing machines. The oil should be light in weight. Heavier oil makes the pump on an auto-lubed machine work too hard. 2. If you have a heavy duty stitcher, (like a cowboy Model 4500 or 3500), then I would use a heavier oil on the external parts of the machine and also inside the covers. I like the heavier oil because it sticks to parts better and does not run off like a lighter oil. And, since these machines do not have auto-lube, and a lot of people forget to oil their stitchers anyhow, a heavier oil can prvide some measure of protection long after a lightweight oil runs off. But for the business end of the machine (like needle bars, hook, shuttle race, presser foot bars, etc) stitck with the clear oil. Most of the clear oil is non staining. If you get any on the leather, then you might have a chance of getting it off. 3. Pay close attention to how you thread the machine, and if the machine should misbehave, the thread path is one of the first things you should check!!!! I cannot tell you how many times I have seen thread fall out of an eye, or fall out of the tension discs, and then people panic and look past the obvious. Cover all of the basics first before looking deeper into a problem. 4. If the machine should ever lock up or get a thread clog in the hook area -- DO NOT FORCE THE HANDWHEEL OVER TO CLEAR THE CLOG!!!!!! I cannot tell you how many times people have did this, and then invariably knock their machines out of time. Cut out the clog, take out the hook, clean it, and then re-assemble it. Re-timing a machine is a lot more hassle than cleaning out a clog. 5. Use the right size needle with the right size thread. 6. When sewing heavy leather -- KEEP THE SPEED SLOW!!!!!! 7. For heavy leather, I like to use bonded nylon thread. The nylon I have used over the years is much less likely to fray than any type of polyester I have seen. Poly can be used for a lot of different things as well, but when you are plowing through the tough stuff, I like nylon because at least in my experience, it does not fray as bad as the poly I have used. For needle and awl machines, this is not the case, but for heavy duty straight needle stitchers, I like nylon better. I know some of these points have been covered above, but I also tried to touch on a few new topics. Hope this is of some help to folks.

For machine stitching with thread this heavy you are going to need to look at least a medium weight machine. It will most likely cost more than $300.00, even used. We have a machine we offer called the Cowboy Model 797 that will use up to a size 138 thread, but the machine is $795.00 new. It comes with a servo motor, stand, table, and machine head, but that is still more than $300.00!!!! If you want to use thread heavier than a size 138, then you'll need to look into a heavy harness stitcher. The price of these machins will be a great deal more, but when you need it, then you just have to have it. We have a bit of a compromise machine that we call the Model 5. It will sew with thread in the range of 138-346, and it is priced at $1195.00 complete. Yes, it is more than $300.00, but still a lot less than other heavy duty machines. Hope this might be of some use to you.

Hello: If you are using a portable Consew, then this machine is not in the same class as the 618, 1541, etc. Machines such as the Cowboy Model 618, Model 797 and others are full blown industrial machines with large powerful motors and are capable of sewing a quite a bit heavier than the portable Consew type machines (that is -- if it is the same type of portable Consew that I am thinking of -- like the Salirite). You mentioned that you are using a relatively thin leather with a size 92 thread. This should be OK for your portable Consew to sew. If you go heavier, and with thicker thread, then it might be a good idea to go with a bigger machne like a 618 or 797 class machine. Hope this is of some help to you.

The 7-34 was a heavy duty flatbed walking foot machine made by Singer. I think they made them from the early 1900's up until about the 1950's or somewhere thereabouts. These machines had what Singer called a "vibrating" presser foot. The walking foot on this machine was not geared to the drive mechanism of the machine, but was instead a sort of "slave" walking foot. As the material was fed, it would press against the walking foot, and then the walking foot would spring back for the next feed cycle. The 7-34 machines were part of a group of machines that many call the "7 class" machines. These would include the 7-34, 7-33, and many others. Singer made a lot of variations on the 7 class machines over the years. The 7 class machines were used to stitch heavy material such as harness, logging slings, tow straps, buffing wheels, and the like. We actually offer a brand new "clone" of the 7-34. We call it the Model 4. Just goes to show you that these machines are still being used today!!!! Hope this is of some help to you.

Looks really nice. Godd setup. Good machine!!!!

If you have the stitch length dial set at 0 and the needle bar does not move at all when sewing forward or backward, then this tells me that the reverse mechanism in the machine should be adjusted correctly. In other words, at 0 there should be no movement of material in sewing forward or reverse. If the bar was moving forward or backward with the dial set at 0, then the stitch dial to stitch length relationship would need to be adjusted. Now for the big problem, you say that the forward stitch does not match the reverse stitch. So we need to find out why. Try this..... Try running the machine without thread in it, and just poke holes in the material. Check the spacing between the holes in forward and reverse. If the spacing is different, then you have a problem with the calibration of the forward and reverse stitch, and this tells us that the thread/material/needle and other things have nothing to do with the problem. It would strictly be a feed calibration problem at this point. If the holes are spaced different with no thread in the machine, then we need to look into why this is the case, and that unfortunately is not an easy fix. There is a cam inside of the machine that can be adjusted to control the forward and backward movement of the needle bar and inside presser foot. This may need some adjusting. Another possibilty to look at is the alternation of the inside and outside feet as the machine sews. Is the outside foot lifting up emough to allow the material to pass underneath it? Most likely this system should be working properly, but it is a possible longshot and I listed it because of this reason. Additionally, there is a cam inside the machine that controls the front to back motion of the feed dog, and this may need adjustment. How about the spacing of the feed dog in the slot as well? I have seen some drop feed machines where the feed dog was spaced too far forward in the slot, and this would make the thread hang on it when feeding in reverse. On a compound feed machine, if you mess with the feed dog spacing, you'll need to adjust the spacing of the needle bar so that the needle comes down into the middle of the hole in the feed dog. The last possibilty (and the hardest to fix) is to examine the geometry of the internal parts the regulate the feed action. This would take a very experienced mechanic, and somebody that knows these machines extremely well. This is the worst case scenario, and it would take someone with a great deal of skill to diagnose this scenario. Lots of things to think about here. One thing I can tell you is that the specing of the forward stitch should match that of the reverse stitch. Is this the cause of the problem? I can't say for sure. But, you miught want to get that fixed first and see if that does anything to correct the problem. Hope this is of some help to you.

If you are trying to buy the machine on a budget, and don't have the extra cash for a servo motor or speed reducer, then you can do the following: 1. If the motor is a 1725 RPM motor, then get the smallest pulley you can find to put on it. The smallest pulleys that we find for most Amco style clutch motors are in the range of 2" to 2 1/8" in diameter. If the pulley on the motor is larger than this, then the machine will go too fast. 2. On the clutch motor, adjust the lever tension to the highest possible setting. This will not only allow the brake on the clutch motor to work more effectively, but will also make it a bit harder to push down on the pedal. This hopefully will stop the urge for you to slam the pedal to the floor, making the motor take off at top speed. 3. You can also wrap a bungee cord around the lever on the clutch motor to increase pedal resistance. This again will make it less likely that you'll stomp the pedal to the floor. 4. Try placing a block of wood under the treadle pedal. This will allow the pedal to go down only so far, which again can help control the speed a bit. These suggestions should be used only if you don't want to pony up the extra money for a speed reducer or servo motor. The servo motors will run around the $140.00-$160.00 price range, and the speed reducers can run around $125.00 or so. This is over half of what you will pay for the machine. If you add the $600.00 purchase price to the $300.00 motor and reducer combo, then you are looking at close to $900.00. We sell brand new complete walking foot machines with servo motors installed for this price!!! If you need to add a reducer and servo motor to it, then it is not worth the $600.00 price tag. Look elsewhere for a better deal.

You may want to to call Toledo Industrial Sewing at (419) 380-8540. They sell rolled leather belts for all types of Singer machines.