Bugstruck

Bob sent me two flavors of needles and the 134-35 needles he has in S point worked well in the 78-3. I didn't know he had that size or that they are nearly identical to the 135-16 but I do now. I should have thought that one through myself, didn't. Not many have that needle type on the shelf in my experience. I imagine possibly a few suppliers up here do, short list no doubt. Short list in the entire country actually. It is as if he has a friend in shipping somewhere, his shipments are always (wasn't I just talking to him?) fast. Nothing else I order out of that part of the country arrives faster unless you next day it and it's shipped out as you order. Works for me.

You just had to remind me Of that, didn't you? Sure IS different.

Exudes quality and just great looking combination of materials. Care to share what leather you used on the bindings and straps? Like that. The pads on the bottom have me scratching my head as to how you got them attached that cleanly. Least seen but impressive workmanship.

I have a clear sense you don't need this but some others reading may? I'll just remind the basic things I'm slowly getting better at recalling when I have a stitch issue on any machine, before I jump too far into the weeds. Been there, done that, think most of us have and I'll do it again at some point. 1. Adequate foot pressure. 2. Good consistent pull on the top thread right to the needle. Released but more importantly under tension. Just a clean path check for any anomalies. 3. Check same on the bobbin though rarely problematic if the tension is even close. I have experienced it though and in one instance it only showed itself when sewing. You could not feel it but you could see it. Generally these bobbin issues just impact the consistency of the stitch appearance (like you are playing with the tension as you sew), so not a big deal to resolve. 4. Take-up spring adjustment. Most recommendations are they are seating about the time the needle starts to penetrate the material. The 78-3 I just got holds tension to within about .05 mm of needle bar bottom motion but that does not impact the loop on that machine. I don't recommend that setting but I'm not changing it for no reason and I've learned these machines have their own personalities, so to speak. In general I think the take-up spring disengagement point is a little over-stressed sometimes but it certainly does matter. 5. Good, correct size, proper type for the sewn material, needle and well seated and oriented. There are some machines and/or thread combinations that will improve loop position a little with the needle a few degrees off true but that's rare and not where I'd start. Probably forgetting a few things but that's the short list of what I do before I dig deeper. If you have to go into the weeds, and this is rarely a problem, but hook to needle clearance is a quick one to eliminate and not where people generally think to start. Use your largest needle.

I am with the others, really like it. Someone will likely know max thread wt. If it is passing the thread on one side of the stitch and not the other, that's hard to say but I assume it's catching the loop cleanly on both sides? If not, that is often just a missed stitch but if the hook is sometimes piercing thread on one side of the throw that will jam it up as I'm guessing you know. Pinned machine, just bought my first one, straight stitcher though. Needle bar height adjustment fixed that one FWIW. Might be worth a look but a different animal you have there. Zigzags don't have much tolerance for calibration error on the wide settings in my experience and one side is usually the problem side and usually timing. Then again, could just be the thread weight as you noted. Great find!

Well, you guys are more industrious than I am but I like the ideas. Fortunately the one I found is in good condition and it's in time. Would be a hard machine to toss away if it needed adjustment though. I don't know if those pins could be drifted out or not but don't intend to try. I don't imagine drilling them out is a real option, would still have to drill and tap the shuttle driver, etc. Come to think of it I don't think you could get that shaft out without removing the pins or cutting it??? I've read here before about controllable clutch motors, never observed one until this machine. The singer external clutch works quite well. Old Westinghouse motor is smooth and reasonably quiet. So that's a keeper. I may reposition it one day. You have to pull the belt to tip it back. Eventually I may remember that and get over it Old dog, new trick.

Photos of the rebuild label and the pinned shuttle shaft. Hope this works, first photo insert attempt.

You nailed that procedure on freeing a tight needle bar. Picked a 78-3 up last weekend and spent a good hour getting the needle bar somewhat freed-up. Usually once you get them moving they free up well, not this one. Enough to raise the bar with some real effort and get the stitch in compliance. I've never seen one take that much heat and effort and I've never seen on still that tight after freeing it. My machine was rebuilt or remanufactured at some point. At work currently so not looking at it but I want to say the label was Union out of Philadelphia who did that. The MA in the label telephone # tells me maybe 1960's? Machine is a 1940. The question I have: Do your 78's you have is the shuttle driving shaft pinned at both ends? Mine is. Was wondering it that was factory or done later. I need to see what needles Bob has, this thing came with an assortment of wrong needles and fortunately one 135x16 pack in size 20 DIA point. So labeled anyhow and looked correct. 2mm shank diameter and 39 mm to the top of the eye which I think is the spec on that needle system. They work, now. I can tell you that hook was at the very top of scarf when I started and I only moved the needle bar up maybe 1mm/ possibly a tweak more. Was sewing fine in some assorted materials after that adjustment but when I looked at it initially I thought that bar needed to go up 2mm or better and I was sure it wouldn't catch a stitch, it did. I never pulled the needle plate after I adjusted it to see exactly where it lands now (yeah I know, major shortcutting due to time constraints and normally I'd have that plate off for that procedure but I'm decent enough at seeing measurements, live it daily). I'll check one evening out of curiosity. My guess is it's still lower than I'd like but it's laying good stitches without fail now. Close enough. These old Singers are pleasurable to operate. No tensions release as freely in my experience and once you get them right, they tend to stay there unless perhaps you ask entirely too much of them. This one is very smooth operating and free spinning, like that. Holds material well with surprisingly light foot pressure when the needle is up. Feed mechanism is rather impressive for no bottom feed. Two other likes. This will be a wallet (2-4 ounce) interior machine among a few other fabric tasks. It will run two layers or 5-6 vegtan but that's pushing it just a little harder than I think it prefers. Ran two layers of chrome tan in that same weight and that wasn't taxing it at all. A little to soon to grade it against the stable but I'm thinking it gets high marks, if for no other reason than it fills a void I had.

Actually Tearghost threaded it right and the video is technically incorrect. Either way would work fine and nothing a very minor top tension tweak would not cure between those two paths. I route my top threads differently sometimes depending what I am doing. Fully intentionally with the results I want. Don't do it often and not where I'd baseline a machine or recommend a newbie start though. Once one has a good grip on tensions you can play around a little and sometimes a combo the machine likes is found. My 4500 for example doesn't get the 360 degree lower tension wrap on 138 or 92. Needs it on 207 and up. If I drop that wrap to 180 I often don't have to adjust upper tension much. Bobbin tension maybe, that needs some snugging when the thread gets light. 207 and up I leave it alone. Most of my machines don't need bobbin adjustment across the thread weights they handle but those that are wider spectrum sometimes do and sometimes the sewn material asks for a loose or tight stitch upper adjustment alone can't achieve without unbalancing the stitch. Rare but occurs. Usually at the extremes of material. Great find on that video. one of the best threading videos I have seen. You did better than I did. I told him his correct path looked wrong right out of the gate and had to correct that comment. Glad he got it sorted out.

Gregg, I don't know if that Castrol high temp comment was intended to be as funny as it is but know this..... had me grinning. And I still don't know if you were serious or not. Doesn't even matter No telling what equipment you are running up there.

Exactly what I thought when looking at that top stitch and I still am guessing as nearly everyone is saying, that is likely high. When I looked at how loose the bottom stitch was it got me thinking he probably has very, very low bobbin tension, regardless. I've messed mine up with that flat-line top stitch once or twice but not with that loose a bottom. A miss-directed bobbin won't get my bottoms that loose. Lint/dirt behind the bobbin spring? Curious to find out but I think he's fighting it on both sides. Hey Tearghost, you probably know who I'm responding to but if not, you have an AAA-team member on machinery on your issue now. I'd take advantage of Dikman if you are still fighting it. I'll to back to the bleachers and spectate for a while.

Tearghost, From what I just observed I now believe your upper tread path below that chrome bar is correct, so disregard my prior comment. Stay with that path.

Tearghost, Floydd is correct that does look tight but it may or may not be. A very rough test is (once you know the thread paths are good) pull the thread out of the needle and pull on it, straight down with the presser foot lowered (that engages the primary tension discs). Should feel tension-wise about what it would take to pull a fully loaded coffee mug across a reasonably smooth wood table top (not formica). Get it there, re-thread and try that as a start point for upper tension. It is impossible for us to observe and know your tensions. It is a feel thing or a load gauge thing if you are as technical as some. Feel works good enough. Bobbing tension should feel much less. Maybe like an empty coffee mug on formica.

Thought that for a moment too. I does look like he's already down a thread size on the bottom. Guessing 138 and 92 but can't tell, maybe 92 and 69. I zoomed that fist photo and the needle looks adequate size to the thread but worth a check. He's not fraying or busting thread at least. Time will tell it and you guys will get him there.

Looks like you have little or no bobbin tension but read on, that may not be all going on here. Make sure the bobbin is spinning the correct direction (I think clockwise on yours as viewed from this side you insert the bobbin- when you pull thread) and is engaging beneath the bobbin tension spring fully. I don't know your machine but I believe your upper thread path may be incorrect. Check this first in your manual or go up to superior sewing, they may have one to download. That take-up spring is reverse operating to my rotary hook machines. Forgetting that, I don't think the thread should come off the take-up spring (on the lower tension assembly) and dive under that chrome bar to the left before it hits the guide (above the take-up spring). I think it should go from the spring through the small guide above the spring and to the take-up lever (upper arm with hole). Once you have the upper and lower thread paths sorted out and checked, if it is still doing the same thing, tighten the bobbin tension in small increments, maybe 1/4 turn and see if that helps. Some other with better knowledge will likely come to assist and advise if I am giving any incorrect information -or- add to what I'm saying.

Bob at Toledo has decent thread at very fair prices and you know what you have and can dial the needle to it.

Well we are both guessing the thread weight. If that is a 92 weight which is the most common upholestry thread, then a larger needle may be the solution? Guterman makes good thread but determining some of their thread weights can be a challenge. Good effort researching, getting into the machine, making adjustments. That will pay dividends going forward. Once you get a decent understanding as to how a machine works, you are on the path to determining what makes them happy and faster working through any issue on that machine. A lot of that knowledge transfers too, and I am always learning something new. So even if you aren't done dialing this one in you are well on your way. Stay with it.

Feed lever in neutral position for needle to hook position checks. Forgot that.

Forgot to mention you probably have maybe two timing marks on the needle bar, and should check that. My guess is the lower mark should be at the bottom of the needle bar bushing when the hook is centered on the needle. But I'd start at the correct height on the needle bar in the full down position (may be the upper mark on the needle bar if you have two). Once that is dialed in then see if the hook is centered when the lower mark is aligning with the bushing. If you do that the needle eye should be very close (distance below the hook - hook being above) to what I mentioned in the last post. If not, then the timing is off which is an easy adjustment Someone here has worked on your machine and may be able to advise better. I'm offering up generic instruction in a hurry from work and not even thinking it all the way through. I'll try an re-read this tonight and clean it up.

The catch you are referring to is the hook. There is a chance that the needle to hook clearance is off but there are other things I'd check first as that usually isn't where the problem lies unless someone else was in there messing with it. You really need an adjusters/repair/service manual. They all call them something a little different. First think to check is the needle. Did you put a new 90 needle in there and still have the same issue? Lay the 90 needle beside the 100 needle. Is everything the same length and do the eyes line up? Next, where the eye of the needle is when the hook is centered on it? If that is needle is not in the right position it may be temperamental. The hook should be above the eye (varies by machine) but about 3/32" or 2mm. Make sure the needle is well seated when you do that check. I'd use the 100 needle that is working. Eventually you may be back to the hook to needle clearance but it isn't where I'd start. I'd let that rest until you perform these other checks. I'm glossing over the timing calibration between the top and bottom shafts but here's a post that covers that. Definitely check that.

Not sure the weight of that thread but I would guess 69/Tex 70 if it works with a 100/16 needle. The smaller eye on that 90 needle is restricting the thread movenent and keeping the loop from fully forming/developing as was noted. Thread and needles are best matched using a chart like this. http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html If you web search "leatherworker and consew 226 needle" you should get better info than using the search engine here. It will bring you right back here in most instances. There is a better search string method but you don't need.

Up way too late but it the machine is sewing okay with the 100 and up needle (if I have that right) but fails only with the 90 needle, with the same 46 thread, something is distorting the loop the hook is trying to catch with the smaller needle (stating the obvious). I assume heavier thread and larger needles are working but not sure you mentioned what thread you are using with the 100 needle. With a 100, what weight thread are you using? That photo looks like 46 or less. Don't know anything about the 226 and don't understand "bobbinless" and at that 46 weight I don't think you mean pre-wound but perhaps.

Mutt, Know what? We are fortunate to have all these equipment guys. Bob and Gregg top my list because I've done business with both. Alexander puts up some good info too. He gave me an idea on lighter thread tensions, wasn't his intention on that video but I learned something different. After them, the tier of support here, in behind their type, is no joke either. May sound like pandering, not. These boys just kick it and save us a ton of grief if we dare pay attention which I am getting better at. Each of them has an area of focus where they excel and yet, they have more overlap than some might think. Started out not even knowing this site existed. Learned some things the the tough way. I'll check out that video. I'll get to Philli one day to blow some dust off something I think is in the far corner. And I'll give Bob an at a boy for putting up with me and keeping me straight. Most importantly perhaps, I give Ferg credit for charging forward when many wouldn't. Man I love that. You young guys with posts exponential to mine and those contributions? Thanks! It all makes a real difference and I appreciate it.

Good write up. Great machine too. I have one of Bob's near the same. Regarding needles/points I have several but 90% of the time I still reach for the packs from Toledo. S points I think. So I had to experiment, little tendancy of mine but I ended up right where he pointed me. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. Good decision today and tomorrow IMO. Enjoy away.

Reading this reminds me of the struggle where I work which is in Architectural Millwork. We generate a lot of by-product. I'm an old hat but I didn't spend my whole life in millwork. Mostly on the General Contracting side where, when a job is done, the excess materials have to be dealt with and you soon learn that the Subs are responsible for their overages and you are responsible for your materials, once the last dumpster is pulled. As a young guy I soon convinced the bosses that warehousing this seemingly valuable material was costing them more than they'd ever save. So we implemented those practices early on. Millwork however, worst bunch of pack rats around and talk about volumetric by-product. Took 12 years (old habits die hard) and young blood to get that message through but they eventually got it. We do donate some but even that isn't what it's cracked up to be. For example, the very few schools left in our industry don't have the space either. We aren't large enough to efficiently convert it to energy, not in Maryland anyhow, where we'd probably need a stack scrubber and permit to keep the government happy. Regs are tight in little Cali. Point being it is hard to find good re-use of waste by-product in all industries and it's harder to eliminate it. What I know for a fact is, keeping it is not a solution. I do think that leather stands a better chance of good re-purposing or use than most processed wood by-products though and I've purchased some. Almost comically and at super high risk of re-diverging, our industry is reclaimed and re-purposed materials nuts. Nobody I know, nobody, honestly looks at the embodied energy and other factors in that material though. We make decent coin complying with those sourcing specifications, run more total reclaimed material through here than anyone in the region (meaning we are the bad guys actually), and everyone with infinitely more plaques on the wall than I have feels like they helped the planet, some of them wrote the rules. They may have reduced apparent landfill loading (not actual though) and the other costs are rather taller. Doesn't mean the intent isn't good or worthy. One day we may actually figure it out. We do it different than most, substitute our own products as often is possible, don't have the fancy certifications anymore (been there, done that- walked away from that circus), but have the genuine product and keep the embodied energy as low as it can be via direct local sourcing. We don't move it around the globe much and if we do, it didn't move around the globe getting here, sometimes through two, three or four extraneous hands, nor do we over-process it. Think kilns and/or charring, then latest reclaimed wood craze. So we are faster and that is what wins the day, not trying to sell anyone that we have a better process, ironically. We don't even mention it, well except here, today and among ourselves. We take a less than stellar well-intentioned idea, and make it as good as it can currently be and a little closer to what it should be. Not because we are great people or environmental stewards (obviously) but because it is the most efficient and cost effective way. And we still don't have it figured out such that it's better environmentally than cutting down a well managed regional forest tree. I do support forestry management, done well. If you reuse your neighbors old door or leather jacket, whatever, I'm all for it. Anyone reclaiming and repurposing materials should be honest about it but you won't find a lot of that in our industry, or elsewhere for that matter. We all get up every day and try, just like everyone else in this post. Hope the original poster finds a good home for his stuff and the end user is within a few states. But we shall not fret, the night is still young, and it's Friday! Enjoy the weekend, all!!