8thsinner

Despite my desire for the last two weeks to start my next whip, for myself, A snake/bull hybrid...I have been avoiding the beginning for what ever reason. The chris barr whip has somewhat inspired me to start. Anyway, I have been prepping 40 odd strands today in roo, mainly with splitting using my completely low budget splitter and tested a few of the splits... As the lace was from pre-bought stuff, It's pretty decent but not perfect, and it's off cuts from the last whip I did, anyway...I took some of the splits tested them and some where pretty damned strong, so I played about and made myself a ring in braided four strands with loop and knot, measuring about 2.2-2.3mm wide diameter. And a little bracelet tie thing in the same. Well, cow would never be this strong I don't think, considering what I was working with. Not all splits were strong and the lace was actually very very wobbly through it's length due to stretchy spots and what not. But It's strong enough that even in a fraction over 2mm wide I cannot break the damned thing. The finest 4 plait I have done until now finished at around 3.4mm and that was a cowhide nubuck. Of course, I still have two fist fulls of splits scrap that will be binned...But I think I am going to aim in the future to make splits work for me so I can recycle as much as possible.

DO you feel like sharing a picture of said 48 plait? I would not mind seeing it as I am sure others would. I had an accident there two days ago with a whip performer, who was cutting newspaper in to smaller and smaller bits, He took a whack at my hand, but it was after the crack not at it...Can barely see the bruise now... I hope no one misunderstands my reasons for starting this thread either, I have been looking into his work for prospecting purposes, but quite frankly his prices are way above my budget Also, just wanted to add, I think it was in Grants book he said, Some of the best braiders in the world no one has ever heard of, thats because they spend so much time in the wilds practicing their art and have plenty enough time to unbraid and re-braid anything they make getting it more perfect every time. Not sure why this just came to mind but it did, so there you go.

Any more takers for the hunt? I don't wanna point out my own observations just yet, as with some of them I am not even sure they are there. I agree with you too bullwhips, But it's not just whip making. In my words, The search for perfection is better described as the search for no mistakes. It's most certainly the finest whip I have seen yet, But I had never heard of the guy before. Nor is his work widely advertised as far as I can tell. I find this a bit strange.

I am looking the opinions of really good plaiters here or the really really cynical. http://www.deadringer.com.au/album/album/72%20x%2036%20Plait/72plait.html Please take your time and digest all three pages of pictures and tell me if you can see a single mistake or list them.

It doesn't say it all for me, can you please explain this.

Thanks aggie, thats what I need, proof that no matter what size the lace it should be done. I was just hoping at this level it made little difference. Now I really do have to put something together suitable for the job.... I have already tried three variations of Beveler...grr

Yeah, cutting at an angle to me has always been called skiving not beveling, what you guys usually mean by skiving I mean only by splitting. Was late when I posted, usually I take it into consideration. Oops

If I don't have a dedicated skiver, is it still worth trying to skive lace thats rounding off about 2.5mm wide? maybe even as small as 2mm. The whip will only be 20mm dia at it's handle. I'll have to build me a skiver first, I don't feel confident in being able to do it by hand. I am thinking if I do, I will not be splitting anything and just going with the flow of the stretch most likely as I will probably break strands otherwise. It's gotta be too thin at that point right? It's the left over Spring field leather lace I will be using here if anyone is more familiar with it. If I am building a skiver, what angle would you recommend and which side, I was thinking just the backside at about 30 degrees.

I have my own ideas for these but I will share a few to get you started. Belt loops on the back are easy to do. Double D rings are a good way to adjust any removable belt system. Either use doubled light weight leather as removable belt or slightly thicker plain style. Zippers can be hand sewn, and probably the most reliable method to use, especially if the opening is wider than it is deep. If it's deeper than it is wider, a closure cord would be much easier to do. Snaps are the easiest but you would have to use quite a few to avoid the possibility the smallest coin falling out if upside down. Velcro again, it's a pain to sew but full closure... Hook and eyes, would probably not work. With patterns I can't really help you. But hope my thoughts help narrow it down.

I'll drink to that

I have to challenge the idea that diamond stones will never dish or wear. Try to re-profile a blade hardened to 64rc and you might too But unless your getting into extreme blades diamonds are a very good choice. But I have always been partial to Japanese wet stones. They are more expensive usually but worth it, cut fast and last ages.

I have recently been looking into star signs in the attempt to understand myself more, Now I don't know about daily forecasts however the actual birth sign does seem to fit me and my personality. I'm an Aries, Passionate fire element always on the move always starting never finisheing, but a perfectionist none the less. I believe I have over come any patience issues and bad tempers.

I am with bevan on this one, I use shellac myself on roo it holds pretty good, cow hide seems to hold it better. But I have started using ronsol - french polish instead of starting with shellac flakes, it saves me time, it's pure shellac based, but still pretty thick, I add between 30-50% mineralised methylated spirits to thin it down. I mix it into small tiny jam jars for each job depending on the test piece on how much to dilute it. On top of this I have added snow proof just to stop any alcohol soaking into it, shellac is pretty breathable in a way and this hasn't caused any problems as of yet. I apply with a thin artists paint brush, admittedly of low quality but the pressure required doesn't seem to make it lose bristles. and they are easy to remove before leaving 20 minutes to dry.

Great looking sheath, and I love the blade profile not to mention the mirror polished edge, what was that finished at? 4000?

I hadn't heard of Hyde before but it seems to me that they should be pretty solid blades with a good temper, The only thing I can think on is that either your sharpening tools are not up to such a high quality blade. I am currently looking for their rockwell ratings, if it happens to above 61 or 62 that would explain your problem. You will need extremely aggressive fast cutting mediums. Either japanese wet stones, or perhaps the micro films that go down to .5microns. Diamond mediums simply won't be able to handle a steel like that for very long. Another issue could be an inconsistency in the angle you are using. Oh, found it, they can temper blades up to 64 RC. That would hold a fantastic edge but also be one of the very hardest to sharpen, especially if your not used to such high grades. Perhaps you should invest in a small rock well tester kit just to make sure. That place looks perfect for making high end splitter blades.

I love it, the hooks are coming striahgt out of hell raiser to my minds eye, It's a bit light in colour for me but still it's awesome.

The use of a mixer I find kinda pointless, I have never had troubles with mine, I just keep stirring it with a fork during the heating stage. comes out smooth. But I also stir mine as I pour it into the new container. I use collected pasta sauce jars, the lid is nice and tight and stops it drying out well.

I tried using fiebings saddle soap on my last roo project, Now, perhaps I am biased towards home made stuff perhaps not, but I found saddle soap absolutely horrible, It dries up funny and sits on your hands and gets all sticky. Also the belly I used it with creaks a little when flexing it...I went back to using home made stuff with plain soap, water and lard... Just my opinion

Recently I did a brief review on precut lace from SLC, through my experience with making a whip, check that out too if your interested in recent projects, it's in the show off thread. I would be like bevan and bullwhips. prestretch every thing no matter what the project. This can be equally important in preparing and storing lace, as you have lace ready to go for any project. Heres the routine I will be using from here on, if hand cutting Cut wider than necessary Stretch Split Stretch Cut to width stretch I am not likely to be skiving for a while, but would add that and another stretch. under the second stretch method. basically because when you cut away anything your left with completely dry areas again... First stretch, I soak for no specific length of time in warm water until it feels right. Then tend to stretch a bottle under it, (turn the bottle not the lace) The bottle with warm water I think helps open the pores and dry it slightly quicker too, but it's always left over night anyway. Second stretch I feed it through the hands as tightly as possible feeling for difficult spots all the while. This is done completely soaked in braiding soap. second pass back through the hands going the other way removes the excess and helps push the soap into the pores to lubricate the fibres better. And lastly with most excess removed just pull as tight as possible back through the other way. If I find any drier spots I will work them a few times until it's all evenly greased. I do this from one bucket lined with a plastic bag to another. Over a clean surface (tarp or bin liner) With cow hides I used to cut width first. with the lace maker, then split. But it's probably better to split then cut to width and this is the way I would do it with roo, as the width is more important in uniform appearance in whips than a slight variation on the tenth's of a milimetre in thickness which rolling helps to hide better. I have been playing with an idea for making a stretching rack though that weights can be added to to create a uniform stretch throughout, but it's not likely to be made for a while yet. I wanna get a Dean Williams splitter and second gen strander. so I can get better whips done.

Thanks

As some of you have seen I just finished a new whip. I am here now to give my experiences of working with SLC Initially I emailed kevin directly first. Asked him about 10 questions and he responded quickly answering most of them, At least enough to satisfy me Kevin doesn't have any personal experience in braid work so some thing could not be answered. Where this was the case he promptly told me but related relevant info concerning the topic and his previous customers. Now, I will point out that my customer was the one who was ordering everything, So things got a little complicated, at one point as it was a rush order, I was on the phone with my customer, msn-ing my partner and emailing kevin all at the same time. In total I ordered 50 yards shiny Grape - purple 25 yards pink 100 yards black 50 yards natural kydex belt clip saddle soap feibings snow proof belt clip for kydex ron edwards book on how to make whips There was a lot of frustration working out details like shipping, like I said this was a rush order. In the end everything was posted out with USPS 5-7 days priority shipping. Never before have I recieved anything within this time frame with USPS. But it was on this one ocassion, Possibly because kevin added copies of his wild life and fish import/ export license. To complicate things more The stuff had to arrive at my partners business address, not the customers home address. This was a let down however, as who ever was in charge of posting on the day it was sent, didn't add this detail. It went to the customers address while she was out of the country. I am fairly sure who ever it was that did this got a warning for it. One more let down also proved not really a bother The book which arrived was in fact David Morgans how to make whips. Kevin was extremely let down by this fact himself. And was extremely generous and prompt at rectifying this issue. I must say this impressed me very much. Overall I have about 20 back and forward emails from kevin during this process, and he actually thanked me for being such a good customer. Summary I have ZERO issue recommending kevin as a supplier for international ROO or probably any other product on his site. He genuinely cares about getting the customer whats right for them, not more about money like so many people these days. I will be using him often. Product review Fiebings saddle soap. I will not be using this again as a braiding soap, the chemicals seem to be more aggressive than home made saddle soap, it took a little colour out during the prep stage of using lace. I have used it on several other things so far and would say it's good enough for coats, bags etc. Anything that has been finished. Snowproof Leather waterproofing as recommended by kevin works pretty well, I actually used it on top of the shellac finish I applied, the shellac gave me the gloss and the waterproof gave me additional mositure resistance more suited to a bar atmosphere where there was a risk of alcohol spills. Dries grippy, but not sticky and remains smooth and shiny in it's own right. Kydex This arrived much thicker than I thought it would be, but it made a pretty good job of wrapping the whip tightly, I had to use the oven method, 200degrees Centigrade, for about 60 seconds. It came out like rubber, hot but not too hot that socks could not be used as mittens. Hair dryer works but much more slowly. I don't have a heat gun. I ordered the 4'x2' sheet and asked for this to be cut smaller for transport. this was done perfectly neatly and not problematic in anyway. Belt Clip I never used it in the end, but was well coated but a little rough around the edges on points. Roo lace Black Thick, strong and lost little colour in soaping, lost about 10 percent in width during stretching phase. Zero splice points found Grape Thick and strong like the black, lost a little more in strecthy spots on width. and a little more colour but not too much two splice points Pink Lost a fair bit in stretch, perhaps 20=24 percent throughout in stretchy spots. One splice point Natural Lost a bit in width, more like the black but you can easily see some stretchy spots. It's looks kinda dirty in finish though, as the grain shows up much more distinctly. For this reason the overall whip finish was dirtier looking than I had hoped for. I would probably not use it again. Two splice points The Ron edwards book. Well it's because of this book that I am now challenging more complicated designs in handle work. Not as good for basic knots, I would still recommend grants book for this. Grant and edwards combined and theres probably not much you couldn't make in reality. It covers well some fall hitches, and cracker hitches for whips, shows some excellent examples of leather work and differences in handles and styles in general. Theres enough info to start making any whip in it's basic form, including some very good handy tips that will save you eons of frustration and learning curves. Very worth the 25 bucks it costs. Lessons for next time. Pre stretch the lace then cut to width, if I had a decent strander I would anyway. Or buy wider than wanted and do the same. There was very little stretch in thickness but the pink is thinner than the natural, which is thinner than the grape, but grape and black were quite thick. I would split these a little if I was using them again. I didn't bother to skive the strands as I have no tool for it and they were 2-2.8 mm or so overall. I didn't have the ability to take risk as I had only enough to do what I needed. Hope this review helps some people out.

I am mainly asking here if someone would like to volunteer a saya, specifically so that I can test out an idea of mine for decorating it. I would rather start with a tanto sized piece. If anyone is in agreement, heres how I would like it to work, I talk to you about concepts and ideas that I can incorporate into it, then get to work designing it, I send you the pics then from there we can settle posts and costs and what not. I am not asking for labouring fees on this job, it's a way for me to show off my portfoio. I have a katana which I might just end up doing but I would need over 250metres of lace to do what I want for a piece this size. But also more generally, any sword owners/practitioners, stick a response in and tell me if you would like a more decorative look available for it. Thanks 8th

I have to say that that is some very impressive cleaning up. If you wanted to do them for craft fairs I would take them to an antique shop if you can find the right specialist and see if you can get them dated and detailed. Market people are always asking things like that I think, like whats an items story... Great work.

I am looking for concept artistic ideas to incorporate into my next whip. It's a snake bull hybrid again, with a differing method of achieving the hybrid nature... I am looking for ideas on the handle alone. If you google around you can see multiple cases of names in whip handles, patterns of all sorts, skulls, ankhs on here, zig zags and spirals and what not. But I am looking for something completely unique. As usual I am setting myself a huge challenge by trying to incorporate ideas, but given the Japanese nature in me of achieving perfection, there is no better way to aim than high. I will not disregard any ideas, the only restriction is pretty much that it's a two tone pattern I am after...No ed hardy copes just yet I'm going to start the whip itself next week probably mid week and would like to have some ideas to test through whilst I am resting from blistering braiding... So throw me your best/hardest

I would like to know Jacko where you get your hides, I have never actually seen low grade hides for sale. But would be curious to get some, especially for testing designs purposes, I reckon I could also use it for braided bellies for whips, where thicker strands would be just as strong as fine grade hides in thinner laces.