BondoBobCustomSaddles

Well, I have read all the posts till now, and funny thing, I resemble with all of them! Guess that as time goes on, and you get "long in the tooth", you get a chance to experiance all the frustrations/joy of being a leatherworker. Glad to see that I'm not the only one that enjoys this life. This was a fun post. Bondo Bob

Try putting Proleptic in your brouser. The web sight will take you to a sight that has the most fantastic sale going on you will ever see. Everything your little heart desires. Bondo Bob

Hi Capgun, Ok so you have a machine that is probably as old as mine. I found that I was having the same problems as you describe, and this is what I have done. 1) the needle and thread size is critical. I like to use either 347 thread with a 200 needle, or 277 thread with a 160 size needle. They work really well for me on those items that I use the stitcher for, (mostly tack repair and items that I make for the race track, my saddles are almost 100% hand stitched) . 2) Some might disagree, but; this works for me, the trick is that the thread as it fits down through the groove in the needle prior to entering the leather must be just tight enough in that groove, so that when the needle comes back out of the leather, the thread is held in place by the leather, causing it to "loop" to the scarf side of the needle and allow the shuttle hook to pick it up cleanly. Also, 3) In our vintage of machine, the take up arm had a spring compressed against it between the pivot bolt head and the arm to create friction keep it up once the crank was starting down on your next stitch. This does not work very well and allows that arm to drop down too soon and the loose thread to get tangled with the needle and bobbin thread prematurely. I looked on the web sight for Tippman and saw that they upgraded to a positive torsion spring that really holds the take up arm up during needle entry and helps keep tension on the top thread and bobbin threads where they belong during the stitch. This is what worked for me. 4) and like someone else said, proper tension for both the upper and lower threads is critical and can't be over-emphasized. During the summer months I do a lot of reair and fabrication for the race track up here in Michigan, I go through about 4 or 5 spools or thread durring the race meet here. I would never make it if my machine wasn't working properly. Hope that helps, Bondo Bob

Hi Dave, I am not going to say much here, 'cause every time I try to add my thoughts, there seems to be an expert out there that knows it all! Bottom line, I agree with you. I agree with your comments 100% spot on. I am now retired, but; in my real life I was an Advanced Seat System Engineer, working for the automotive world, and I too, embrace new technology that is founded in sound fundamentals. I am always looking for a better way, but; I make sure I don't stray too far from the "old fashioned way". It always seems to work best for me and my customers. Bondo Bob

Keith, Glad to see "the joint was jumpin"! Only problem I had was that I had trouble finding a space to park in. Guess that was good for you. Anyway, glad to see it was a success. Bondo Bob

Thank's Ross! At the end of the day, the most important thing is that the customer get's a good quality product that exceeds his/her needs. To that end , I try to learn from others and the makers that have preceeded me, and do what it is that the customer requires. I hope that each and every piece that I do, ends up being passed down in the family with pride. I try to keep track of my saddles and where they are. To date, I only know of 2 that have changed hands out of the original owners' family. To me that is the real test of ones' efforts. By the way, those 2 now have owners that come to me for additional work. Bondo Bob

Ok, I guess that I may have unintentionally, stepped on a few toes, when I said that using a tin strainer was a short cut. Mostly what I said was not taken the way I meant it. Perhaps what I should have said is , that the dozen or so saddles that have come to me in my shop to be re-done because they were deamed uncomfortable by their owners, were, saddles with metal strainers. When I took them apart to rebuild them, it was evident that the maker was taking shortcuts to get the job done and the end result suffered from it, not just in the seat but also in many of the various different areas that, taking time to skive and fit properly result in a good saddle. I did not mean, that anyone that uses a tin strainer is making junk! When you talk about the likes of the many saddlemakers that are both known and unknown out there that take the time to build top saddles, they do not do that by cutting corners. If you are going to use a seat tin, and take the time to fully shape and contour it properly, you are not taking a short cut, it takes time and effort to achieve proper shape. On the other hand, the ones that I have removed and placed full leather ground seats in, were originally like sitting on a 8" wide board. These tins were simply tacked in place the way they came from the maker. That is a shortcut and does create an inferior product. I am sure that the guys you are mentioning by name, would never simply do that . As someone else said here, "If the seat is well done, it's well done...period". I agree with that, whole heartedly. As for me, I will continue to use the leather method, because it gives me the opportunity to shape and skive as I go, and finally, whenever possible, I have the owner come to the shop and sit the seat before I go on. That gives me a chance to do a final skive to be sure it is pleasing to the owner. That ain't no short cut, but; it does make sure that the results are perfect. That should be the results you are looking to acvhieve , if you aspire to have your name mentioned in the same breath as those that have gone before us. Sorry if I hurt anbody's feelings! Bondo Bob

Russell, Not sure if it helps, but; I am 5'8" and getting shorter all the thme. My cutting bench is 35" from the floor to the top. Because I like to cut a side while it is completely laid out, and also seem to have a bunch of extra "stuff" on the table at the same time, my table is larger than most, I think. It is 5' wide by 10' long. It started out life larger, but; I couldn't fit it in my shop and have room for anything else so I cut it down. I like to be able to lay over it to reach to the top of a hide some times, and it allows me to do that. As for my tooling table, it is adjustable up and down with a crank and screw jacks in the legs, and a laminated hard wood top, (it was a toolmakers bench that I picked up at an acution), so I just sit on the back of my stitching horse, and adjust it to a comfortable height fo me. After a while you find a spot that just works right for you. Bondo Bob

Brent, As usual, your work is a fine example of how function and beauty can blend together into a piece that the owner will be proud of and will turn into a family heirloom. I too am a fan of W/C leather. Good stuff! Very nice work! Bondo Bob

Keith, I understand the busy thing, as you know. I am really swamped with the track stuff, and since the meet is coming to an end at the end of the month, I am taxed trying to get ahead of it. I blew through that hide I picked up the other day and am 1/2 way through the one I picked up yesterday! I won't be able to make the class. I will try to make my regular stop by after the track to say hi and get whatever I need for supplies though. See you Friday. Bonso Bob

Once again I agree with Denise. The search fo knowlege is a never ending task if pursued in earnest. As for fitting Arabs, not knowing which Arabs have one less vertabrae, and which don't, it seems to me that the safe bet is to error on the side of caushion. A 1" shorter set of bars will not hurt those that are "longer backed", and will certainly make it fit better on those that have the misterious one less. I have run into the ill fitting issue with an Arab before, and that shorter set of bars got the job done, so from experiance, I will continue to treat them as if they all have one less. That is what has worked for me. Thanks to all that have posted on this issue. Like I said before, more knowlege is good. Bondo Bob

Thanks for taking the time to investigate the statement. More knowlege is always good. I made the statement from what I read out of Stohlmans Encyclopedia of Saddle Making, page 21 Volume 1, I quote, "Arabian bars are generally shorter because the Arabian horse has one less vertebrae", the information goes on to discuss how many thoractic vertabrae and center of motion and so on. I am not a vet, nor have I done any studies on equine cadavers. I simply have used these books as a basis for how and why I make my saddles the way I do, and I can say with experiance that in twenty years or so, they have never lead me wrong. I have made several saddles for people with Arabs, and the results have always been excellent, so I will continue to do what has always worked for me and my customers. As always, I value the opinions of others that give their advice and help in an effort to improve and widen the knowlege base. Bondo Bob

Ditto what the other guys are saying, I use 2 1/2" as my standard also, for all the reasons posted above, plus on pleasure and show saddles a lot on my customers seem to think that weight is a factor, so I use less leather where ever I can without degrading the durability of the piece. I go to 3" when they are to be used "hard" on ranch saddles. Calf ropers and the like. As far as lacing vs: blevins buckles. I use blevins as a standard, but; will lace if asked for by the customer. My personal saddle is laced. Bondo Bob Custom Saddles

David, nice job! I see what you are talking about, and the fact that you can see it is a real plus. Looking at you first piece tells me that you aren't afraid to tackle all the hard stuff, and are ready to put in the time to get it done correctly. That is good. You will get the hang of all the tricks as you go and it will get easier, most of the time. Like some one said here, don't be afraid to stop and start over, if you are going in the wrong direction with a part. It pays off in the end. Also, The tip about the way your cut your jockeys is a good one. I will add, be sure to dampen them and "draw spike the living he__ out of them". That will get them down tight the way you want them. As for the cantle binding, take time there to make sure that everything is just so. Where your seat leather, cantle back leather and filler come together, take the time to skive them to a nice neat, and rounded edge. I strive to get mine to about 5/8" combined thickness after they are glued, and then stitch them for added support before I start the binding piece. It will help you mold the binding as you put it on. All in all, it is a very nice job and much better that many I have seen after thdy have made several. Remember pay attention to the details and the rest will take care of itself.

Every thing that Rod and Denise have said here is correct. To simply add, more often than not, people don't know that Arabs have one less vertabrea (lord only know why) than other horses, so it is not just that some arabs have a short back, all 100% arabs do, they are also wide in the withers, and flat on the top line. Be sure to keep this in mind when you are looking to fit your horse. Bondo Bob

In all the years that I have been stitching cantle bindings, I have been lucky enough not to stick myself, (not to say that I have haven't stuck my self other ways!), but: I decided to try your helper tool when it came up here before, and it really works well. I made mine with a piece of hickory handle and added a thong to keep it on my wrist. That way after the needle is through, I can drop it and concentrate on the stitch. The key is that it is a real help getting the stitches the same angle and making the over all apearence uniform and straight from stitch to stitch. I hate to see nicely made saddles where the maker took a short cut to stitching the cantle. It just kills the look of a good saddle. Bondo Bob

Several Years ago I bought a couple of large hides from Weaver (just enough to do one leg each). I believe they still have them for sale, (checked in the catalog and yes they do). I used them to make a special order set of chinks for a cutter. He still has them today displays them in his saddle shop when not in use, and they have "aged" beautifully. They took on a kind of rust patina, they are very light in weight, which he wanted cause he cuts mostly in the summer months around here and says he can wear them all day. Usually they take them off as soon as they are done with a run. He said that he gets lots of comments about them and where he got them, and has sent me a lot of work because of them. It's really nice material to work with, durable, has a nice feel and over time takes on a real nice patina. I certainly recommend it if you have a real pickyunish customer looking for something different. For those who want to see them, the are at Jacobs Boots and Saddles in Bellville Mi. I'd send pics, but; I don't have any and am not sure when I will be by that way again. Hope that helps. Bondo Bob

There is also instructions for a pair of "old style" braided suspenders like the old Vaqueros and Gouchos used, that are really neat. They are in the "Braided Rawhide and Leather Bible". They do not need elastic, and are different that today's styles, really unique. I have been going to make a set for my self for a while now, just need to get the time. Bondo Bob

Just a tip, I never use anthing but; an awl. I have made my own out of a lot of different materials and also used several of the store bought ones. The real trick for me, is to make sure that it is sharp!!! I hone it on a diamond stone, then an Arkansas stone, and finally I buff it with jewlers rouge. Sounds like a lot of extra work, but; once you get the hang of it, it dosn't take but, a few minutes and the results is more than worth it. For smaller items like watch bands I use awls that I made out of stainless wire, about 10 ga. in dia. Nothing like good tools! Bondo Bob

OK Thunder! On a side note, I have raced most every thing that can be pitted against something else, however; ( and I am surprised no body chimed in on this) if I was getting dumped that much, I think I would be looking for something else to race I did a pavement slide once @ over 80mph many years ago, it happened and was over so quick that the slide itself didn't hurt, but; afterward was a real awakening!! Bondo Bob

Well, I use both Weldwood and Barge (original). I like both. It just depends on what I am doing as to what I use. There is one other adheasive that I use in special applications. Durring the racing season here in Mi. I make a lot of billets and stirrup leathers, for the excersize guys at the track. They like the split type with the nylon reinforcement in the middle. For that use, because it is very convenient and quick I use 3M super 77 spray to stick the layers together till I sew them together. As for getting the glue off of your hands, I use some old fashioned laquer thinner on a rag. I know there are people out there that will say all kinds of eco things, but; I was in the automotive paint business since the 60's and used it all my life and it has not been detrimental to my health, and besides, I'm old enough to use the grandfather clause. Bondo Bob

Bruce, all the comments are spot on. You have obviously too much time on your hands! I have a 24' X 30" area carved out of my barn that I am going to set up, some day when I am not too busy trying to keep ahead of all the folks that wait till the last minute to get stuff repaired/made. Currently I have my shop in the basement in a 12'X20' room. A little cramped and lends to why it is so hard to keep it clean (always a good excuse ). Actually I am waiting for my wife to complain enough about the smell of chemicals as I do glueing and staining, and such, to force me out there. Bottom line I am envious of your shop. You have done a really nice job. Hope to live long enough to do the same! Bondo Bob

1 Horse, Denise, and the others are making a lot of valid points, and their experience in the area is from very different points of view. I will add this, I once made a saddle for a woman, that fit her horse correctly. It was a 1/2 arab 1/2 standardbred. The result was a very mutton withered, downhill standing, horse with a short back. It actually looked like a halflinger, kinda. Well, at first I told her that after she tried a dozen different saddles on her, none fit, and her saddle shop was getting tired of seeing her come into the shop to return saddles, my first suggestion was to get a different horse that she could use and enjoy regularly without the expense of a new custom built saddle. That did not work and she had me make her a saddle to fit her horse anyway! ( I will never do that again!) I told her at the time that the saddle that I made for here horse would likely not fit most other horses and that once she did sell that horse she should sell that saddle with the horse also. Sure enough, a couple of years later, she called me to see if I wanted buy the saddle back. Of course I didn't. She eventually donated it to a horse shelter for the tax write off. Fortunately, some time later some folks that had a similar fit problem, happened by shear luck, to end up with the saddle and it now has a happy home. Bottom line here is, the first advice was the best. Get a horse to use that has more standard conformation and save yourself a lot of trouble, aggravation, and expense. It would probably be cheaper in the long run to retire your "half" to the pasture and some loving care and have a second horse to use. I know about wanting your horses to be happy, I have 2 out there that I can't use any more because of medical problems they have developed over the years, but; they have earned a happy home and that is where they will stay. By the way, the cutting horse with bad hips may not be able to cut anymore, but; she is the best babysitter for my grand children you could ever imagine! There is life after riding. Bondo Bob

I agree fully with Marlon. If you are going to "hand stitch", then do it, and do it right. The old timers did it that way and that is the reslults everyone is trying to emulate. On the other hand, if you don't care about the results, do it any way you like, but; don't expect to find an easy to make it look like the old fashiond way, there just ain't a substitute for good old fashioned quality. Bondo Bob

Nice job considering you did it without the "proper tools". That's akin to working on a car with a pair of pliers and a hammer! The book will make life a lot easier, and your product much more pleasing to your eyes. Call your store and ask for them to send you the book and put it on your charge. That is the real place to start. You will be glad you did. Bondo Bob