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@Wepster Thank you! I have been looking for a citrus oil which smells only of oranges. I get mine as food-grade since I use it as a household cleaner as well and want it safe for my pets. But in spite of getting it from different sellers, it always has a slight smell of L-Limonene - piney-turpentiney, as described in the MSDS. I will try this seller. Limonene does not contain turpentine either. It is pure orange oil and the part with the orange fragrance is D - Limonene. Many companies sell it separated from L-Limonene but I suspect the separation is not always perfect. @deboardp, I go on Amazon to get food grade D-Limonene. As I mentioned, sometimes it has a slight turpentine smell but the orange fragrance is present. i plan to try the one @Wepster suggested next. It is technical grade, so not for a household cleaner for me, but certainly for my leathers. About oil-tanned leathers, they are easy to line. I use them a lot and am happy with the results. Just made a host of keychains for gifts, many with layered oil-tanned leathers and they do glue well. There is no oil on the surfaces to prevent that.

@ScottWolf I'm sure your leather conditioner is perfectly fine and works well. But that does not mean other ingredients or other recipes don't. They do.

@Wepster, @deboardp citrus oil - solvent - I suspect they mean Limonene. D-limonene smells of oranges which is pleasant; L-Limonene has a piney-turpentine smell, which is not. D-Limonene as a solvent is great as an addition to leather conditioners - it is an anti-fungal as well. Not sure of the percentage needed though. If you buy plain Limonene, you get the unseparated mix, which smells of pine and turpentine. So if you want the citrus fragrance, you need to buy the D-Limonene. Often though, it is not sufficiently separated and still has some turpentine smell. @deboardp if vegans don't like what you use, it is their loss, isn't it? How much can you really change your conditioner recipes to suit people's idiosyncrasies? The change might result in a product that is not as effective and that will be another issue. A question: Is there a need for tallow as well as lanolin in a conditioner? Is one of these not sufficient, along with beeswax for a bit of stiffness and an oil of choice for penetration into the leather and texture of the conditioner? Just wondering. @deboardp After the earlier comments on applying conditioners to damp leather, I tried it on some dry leather that I have. I dampened the leather with a spray bottle and then rubbed in the conditioner. It slowly turned white. I left it overnight and the next day, the leather was soft and pliable and shiny - whiteness gone. Delighted with the result but I don't think I will repeat - too much elbow grease needed. But the method works. About hot-stuffing, From what I have read, oil tanned leather is specifically chrome tanned leather that is hot stuffed. That does not mean veg tanned leather is not or cannot be hot stuffed - just not given a specific name. Latigo is hot-stuffed and chrome and veg tanned! There are others too and since the process makes the leather more pliable, I guess if we look at the processes of making the more pliable veg-tanned leather, they might include hot stuffing as well.

@@dikman I'll take your word for it. I've still to receive the tallow I've ordered. I guess beeswax is included for its water repellent properties then. I'm trying to find inert lipids to apply on my leathers - beeswax is one such, as are carnauba wax and lanolin. "Organic" in layman's terms too!

Beeswax is used most often because it is a good water repellent. Besides, it does not soften very easily in the heat. Lanolin, tallow, etc. all go soft or liquify when it is hot and could be messy but when mixed in with beeswax, that does not happen. Just conjecture on my part though.

@chuck123wapati exactly, as well! So many variables in the equation.

@deboardp, exactly!

@fredk, true. A good leather conditioner therefore does not really require a host of ingredients. A couple will do the job, since most are multi-functional.

Checked my leather pieces. No mold or smell on any of them either.

Firstly no offense meant to anyone here. Carl Friedrik? He sells ready made leather items and leather creams, doesn't he? I take all that such people say with a pinch of salt. Besides, "loss of color"? Quite the contrary, in fact. Mineral oil is known to restore color and it is used 50% with beeswax to do just that and to restore a shine. There is not one item out there which is praised to the skies by someone for its efficacy in conditioning leather and which is also not soundly disparaged by someone else as worthless. Whom do we believe? Ego the need for our experiment. From what I see out there, so many seems to disparage everything except what they themselves sell or themselves use and are convinced is good. Not seen any real proof yet. Maybe 10 or more years from now, those of us who are alive or those who carry on will be able to make definitive statements about the items we are testing. All the oils and waxes only act as occlusives or lubricants. Mineral oil acts as a lubricant too. Nothing gets 'absorbed'. Just lubricates. We need to see the entire picture to know what is finally good together on leather. At what stage do we add waxes, when to use oils or both or neither. As @chuck123wapati said a few comments ago, the extent of hydration of leather will be about that of the surroundings. So when the humidity is about 50%, which is ideal, if our leather is not already dehydrated and dry, if we use lubricants and then occlusives, it would work well, is it not? If the leather is dry or even if it is not, we could dampen the leather and rub in waxes, forming emulsions as you said @deboardp, which when the water dries, leaves the leather soft. A good occlusive like mineral oil can be pre-added or applied later. Resolene or Mop & Glo or any similar finish would then protect the leather.. Earlier, it was just people in localized areas sharing their experiences. Now it is world-wide and we can get so much more information. In this case, at least for me, it has simplified everything, once I separated the chaff from the grain. Hydration? always water, world over. Lubricants? Different, depending on what is available easily. Occlusives? The same. Finishes. Ditto. All finally giving the same result - soft, healthy, beautiful leather!

Has anyone used Faraday fabric for RFID blocking? I was wondering how it worked.

@deboardp That is why people wax eloquent about olive oil being discovered from thousands(?) of years ago, not gone rancid. Of course not, they were in air tight bottles! I also wonder at the personal hygiene of the people centuries ago. No running water, toilet paper or equivalents being used, no air conditioners in the heat... where did BO end and smelly leather begin or vice versa? Would the ladies even notice, since they would be in the same boat? Must have been a smelly world -Just saying...

@thekid77 if embossed leather is what you are looking for, The Leather Guy has some good ones as well. They have some good deals too. But this is leather which is embossed, not faux leather.

@Annemiek222 You need to leave the iron in the vinegar for a couple of days before it will dye well. I, at least, need to leave it in for a minimum of 3 days. That is when I get the best color. But others get it sooner. Either way, the iron needs to be in the vinegar for a sufficient amount of time. Did you wash the steel wool with a light soap solution first and rinse thoroughly? . I'm not sure if there is anything on them to keep them from rusting but that could prevent the vinegar getting to the actual iron and delay the forming of Vinegaroon. If not, just take them out again, clean well and put it back in. I have done it and everything was fine. Right now, I would suggest you let the leather dry and see what happens. I doubt you have damaged the leather. Leather is pretty hardy that way. Once all the dyeing is done, you can condition it to preserve it. I would just not put it into baking soda. An alkaline pH is not good for leather. People have been making Vinegaroon for hundreds of years. It is a simple procedure and some trial and error occasionally. Just relax about it. There is always a solution and if all else fails, there is always dye.

@Annemiek222 , ordinary household vinegar is 5% strength. It has a pH of 2.5; iron Acetate which forms when we add iron, the pH would be about 3. Once the leather is dyed, a rinse in plain water should be sufficient to rinse off the vinegaroon and bring up the pH to about 4.5-5 since, water has a neutral pH of around 7. A baking soda wash could raise the pH too much and end up actually making it basic instead of acidic and that could actually damage the leather more. Making Vinegaroon is a simple matter - old iron pieces in whatever form - old nails, steel wool, whatever - soaked in household vinegar over 2-3 days. I keep mine completely covered and never has it exploded - not sufficient gases to do so. Mine turns brown and sludgy but it does not affect the dyeing - I dip, rinse in running water and allow to dry. Works fine for me. If your leather turns grey it is either because your vinegaroon is depleted or, as @Gosut says, the leather needs more tannins. If the latter, a tea soak should work. Only thing is, after the treatment, the leather should be well rinsed in water to remove all of the liquids, else this can cause color transfer. Plain leather, without a tea dip will not transfer or leak black liquid because the tannins getting dyed are bound to the leather, but when we dip leathers in a tea solution and then the vinegaroon, the tannins in the tea liquid that are free on the leather and not actually absorbed, will also react with the vinegaroon, so you will have a wet piece of leather dripping a black dyed liquid. It needs to be rinsed off. If allowed to dry and the leather gets wet later, it can cause transfer. I have experienced this. So, a plain tap water rinse is sufficient. If the leather turns grey because the vinegaroon s depleted, and there are still pieces of iron in the solution, try adding more vinegar. Else try adding a few pieces of iron. It does take a few days. I have never had it be ready in less than a day but others have, so it might work for you. It is all a matter of trial and error. Rather like cooking. Like adding a bit of salt here or a smidgen of pepper there. It is a very simple reaction after all. Did you try to dye your leather pieces again after the vinegaroon was kept aside for 2-3 days? It will probably be of a greater strength by then and dye your leather better.

@Klara Damascus knives stay very sharp for longer too. I had heard that and when I came across one in a flea market, I bought it - a chef's knife (at least, I think it is) that I got for a song - I thought that it would probably be fake but it is not. I had it sharpened when I bought it and those characteristic, wavy lines stay all through; that does not happen with fakes. I use it for everything (other than leatherwork) and it is still as sharp as ever. I got it a while ago and by this time, most knives usually show some amount of dulling with household use where I always forget to strop it. That in itself I think, would be a good reason to buy a Damascus knife for leather cutting but I guess a Damascus round knife will be prohibitively expensive. However, most of the Damascus knives we see around are not made in the traditional way, it appears. I looked up the processes and many say they stack and weld different metals but not much folding and stretching is done during forging, so the characteristic pattern is not created. That is why many of them etch the pattern and mention this as well. The original way, makes those patterns naturally which is why they are irregular and such knife makers cannot guarantee a specific pattern. That stretching and folding makes the metal strong and flexible which will be useful in swords but not in chef's knives or even, indeed, round knives. But the multiple types of metal probably contributes to the hardness and enduring sharpness of the edges. So even adopting only part of the process, these knife makers probably provide good knives, for their specific uses, at a more reasonable price. Win-win all around, I should think. @DieselTechif you do get a damascus round knife from crosswindsforge.com, could you put it up here? Would love to know how it works out. I would love some input from people who make knives and are in the know about all these techniques. I might be wrong because the places I looked at might not give the correct information either. Maybe I should not hijack this thread and start a new one instead. I'm sorry @DieselTech.

Thank you for those kind words. Maybe I will start looking for something like that.

@chuck123wapati, I certainly did, didn't I? You overestimate my abilities though. I just started leatherwork a year ago and am a long way yet from having the expertise to restore furniture or make new ones. Restoring boots and jackets and other such items, yes I can do but furniture is a completely different ball game.

@Klara 'Hypothetical' is absolutely correct.! Essentially the bedspread is supposed to use up at least one of the hides that I bought in a moment of misplaced enthusiasm. Clean, complete hides for less than $20 each.. how could I walk past them? (it was the afternoon of the last day of an estate sale on a rainy week-end.. so not very many people visiting, ergo the price drop.) Now, I'm stuck with 3 of them, and while restoring leathers is something I love to do, after restoration, what? I have several similar restored items that I don't know what to do with. The hides, I don't want to just keep them aside and forget about them. So, having just come from a frenzied few months of gift making, I thought I would do something with these hides. I will need a lining on the bedspread because the hide I am thinking of using has a large oil spot on the flesh side. Not visible on the grain side but I would like it covered. The more I think of it, the more labor intensive the whole thing seems. But if I don't decide on a deadline, I could complete it in a couple of years or so.

Yes. I have a pair of tongs that I keep only for my Vinegaroon to avoid that. It does not stain our fingers so sometimes we do not even notice we have it on our fingers. Is baking soda really needed after Vinegaroon? Leather needs an acidic pH of ~5 anyway and since the Vinegar we get is only 5% , it does not really drop the pH very much. A water rinse suffices, I should think. Water has a neutral pH of about 7, so it will bring up the pH of the vinegar treated leather from 2.5-3 to about 4.5-5, which is what leather pH should be. Raising the pH with baking soda might cause more damage than just rinsing the vinegar.

For brown, why not just oil it and leave it out for a while? Leather becomes so dark, there is no need for any dye. You don't even need direct sunlight for it.

@chuck123wapati yes I can imagine. But when it's cold enough to warrant using it, think the warmth will make the weight acceptable, I suppose.

@chuck123wapati Yes. I met a woman who said that too. I did not ask her much more about it though. I should have. Do you line those on the flesh side? is the flesh side soft enough to use as is? My issue right now is using those hides. A bedspread will use a whole one. I'm thinking that even if they don't become soft enough to drape softly, they can be a bit stiff - like comforters are, for example. Which should be fine, since I don't plan to use it as a blanket. Let's see. Still a lot of work to do on them.

I'm up past midnight, a rare thing these days. So thought of wishing everyone here. From both of us, A Very Happy New Year!

@bruce johnson you're right. I have no idea how drapey the hides will be. Still have a way to go with the conditioning and restoration. They are very soft but might not drape well. If they ae not very drapey, I will have to probably find a different use for them. Let's see. Meanwhile. I know hair-on hides are used as blankets and rugs. Do you use them as is? I mean, as one gets them from the leather store? How does one keep them clean?