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Welcome to the forum. This is exactly how I felt as well, when I discovered this forum.

You will need much longer than a week to learn enough about tanning to actually do it yourself, unless you get a person to actually guide you through the process.

@fredk I like the idea of the different numbers of holes. I will do the same. I think you have covered everything. I am using 5 oz leather, cut into 3 inch squares. Also using coconut oil instead of Sesame seed oil. I want to check if the rancid smell disappears or can be masked. So I am testing 4 oils - neatsfoot oil, mink oil, coconut oil and mineral oil. Planning to also check the effects of orange oil - I have the food grade variety and use it for all my cleaning. Very effective. Want to know its effects on leather as well. I will use it undiluted on one piece and if it does show damage in a week, since it is a solvent, I will use it undiluted, else will dilute it with mineral oil. I applied the oils with a kitchen paper towel. 1/4 tsp was just about right for the 3X3 inch pieces. The control pieces are all with my rolls of leather, in the house - temp controlled, humidity controlled, at least relatively. The ones in the car that I use regularly, I am keeping in an open box, exposed to light and darkness, heat and cold, car movement. And whatever else there is in the car! Outside, they are also kept in a box, on paper towels, exposed to the elements. In the garage, they are kept in a flat layer in an open box. I keep all my information on my computer in an Excel spreadsheet.

@TomE Thank you! That is a lot of information.

@chuck123wapati yes of course that is true. But then, that is why some chefs' food is much preferred over that of others. And of course tannins are not the only thing that affect the quality of leather! Not rocket science either to know that! It could be one of the things that affect quality though, along with other things. My question is just whether the quantity of tannins affects the quality of the leather or not. What @TomEstated above suggests that depth and extent of bonding may differ as well. So this might be a more complex answer than I expected! TomE's articles and the earlier one sent by @ArkieNewbie could provide that answer.

@TomE Could you please post them? I would love to read about it.

@Littlef Actually, I did not seal the leather before dyeing it with vinegaroon. I cleaned it with saddle soap like I usually do and no, repeated treatment with vinegaroon did not help. I tried that as well. I do apply neatsfoot oil oil after the dye, always. It does darken of course, but I cannot depend on it. These were always trials on scraps of leather, which I always do before I actually dye the piece I am working on, so I could adjust accordingly. @chuck123wapati I absolutely agree about it not being rocket science. I can read the process up but my question is about whether the quantity of tannins differs in good quality and average quality lather. @ArkieNewbie thank you for that. I will read the article. When working with leather, there is so much time to think that all sorts of questions come up!

To explain my question, A while ago I dyed a piece of leather with Vinegaroon. It only turned grey. Research suggested that the Vinegaroon was depleted. So I made a fresh batch and the leather turned black as expected. Fast forward a couple of months and again, another piece of leather turned grey. Fresh Vinegaroon and it still remained grey. Further research said that this happened because there were not sufficient tannins in the leather. Dipped the leather in strong tea, dried it and then used Vinegaroon, it turned black. However, because I used the tea, color transfer did happen. Now, I know to use a sealant if I need to use tea when dyeing with Vinegaroon. The question is, evidently the leather I used in the 2nd incident had lower tannins. Does that in any way reflect the quality of the leather? Do better quality leathers have more tannins or less or is it unrelated to the quality of leather? I have been wondering about it and thought I would put it up here.

Not quite sure why Iron sulphate in water is used. Plain white vinegar with any old iron added gives a gorgeous black color. It takes a few days, no more than 3-4 days, but the results are always wonderful. My first batch I used old, rusted iron nails and that worked fine. Now I use steel wool and that works well too. I have been using vinageroon for a while now and after a dip in vingaroon I just rinse my leather in running water and let it dry. That is really sufficient I find. It does not stink either - a very mild smell that disappears in a couple of days. I am always concerned about the pH going too high if I dip in a baking soda solution, no matter how dilute. Vinegar is anyway 5% acetic acid in water, so it just gets rinsed off with a quick wash and since water has a more or less neutral pH, it balances out the pH perfectly well. A little vinegar remaining would, in fact, maintain the ideal pH of between 4 and 5. The vinegar is also too dilute to damage the threads used, if rinsed off immediately after a dip. Some things really are simple, surprisingly so. But that is nice!

A bit late in this thread but here goes. @Doc Reaper I agree with you. A few weeks ago, I went to one of the Tandy classes to learn how to attach grommets. The person demonstrating insisted that the snaps they sold were the only ones available anywhere and anything else did not exist! " I don't know where you got those from! I have never seen them ANYWHERE" was his specific reply when I asked if he knew where I could get the more delicate snaps I use and that are better for smaller items like coin wallets. Most salespeople always give some information or just say they don't know. The ones I got from Tandy earlier are just lying to one side, unused. The ones I got from Amazon are better and they are surely made in China. Wonder where the ones from Tandy are made! If the salespeople are ready to listen and then convey what customers say to their management, it might make them aware about the defects in their products. This attitude.. Hmm. it really put me off. Luckily, the very exuberant manager is toned down now and very approachable. I don't go to that store now unless I know she is present. @Sefuller about the snaps, perhaps you could order a smaller number to check that they suit your purpose and are of good quality as well. I do that for everything now.

Back. Got everything ready with mineral oil, neatsfoot oil and mink oil; not sesame seed oil yet. Will do that soon. Also trying to determine what oils are used these days to process oil-tanned leather. I know it used to be fish oils and some probably use it still, while others use synthetic compounds, my research suggests. Spoke to people where I get my oil-tans from - Springfield leather - Angela has to contact the supplier for that specific information. Very helpful people at Springfield leather and it is Kevin from Springfield leather who confirmed that fish oils are used in oil-tanning treatment. Once I know more, I will decide if it is worth while adding oil tanned to my list of leathers to treat with the oils.

@fredk that's okay. This will be such a long term experiment, a few days delay will not make much of a difference. So take your time. it should not be a burden.

About the leather, I am using 5oz leather, so about 2mm. I am using relatively good leather. but not the best. I have made the pieces of 3 inch by 3 inch size. That should be sufficient, I think. I have experienced the same thing that you have, with dye. I plan to apply the oil and wipe away any excess after a set amount of time, maybe 5 minutes. I will label each piece and note the extent of absorption as well; I will not be able to quantify the extent of absorption though, except in the most general of terms. Let's see. We will surely have to modify some of the steps as we go on. I know bacon and pork are the same but a world of difference in the taste! I love bacon but not pork in any other form. And don't start on shops catering to one community over others. Why some think they are more important than others is beyond me and why others listen is an even bigger mystery. Hindus don't eat beef but we do not object to others eating it or it being sold in stores. We just don't buy it. Why can't other communities do the same? Leaving that topic aside, and back to leathers and oils. I will do the sets for mineral oil and neatsfoot oil today and then need to be away for a week or so, so incommunicado. Will continue, both in this thread and the experiment, when I return.

@Sheilajeanne I have no idea how bacon fat is different from pork fat - it is the same thing! Probably the smoking of bacon gives the fat that smoky fragrance as well. Neatsfoot oil smells unpleasant to me, but I like the use of it, so I use gloves when using it. If not, I feel the smell remains for hours, no matter how much I wash my hands. That is so true about processing fats. Everything is made, for the most, part, as it has been made for centuries, except for the packing and the exorbitant prices! I also plan to add mink oil to my list.

@fredk, no we don't need to mirror the experiments but they need to be similar and, like you said, probably will be. Animal fats like tallow, bear grease etc. I leave to others. At the most, I can do lanolin, which I do use in my leather conditioner anyway. @Sheilajeanne, won't bacon fat smell of bacon? So the leather will too. And an invitation to mice and rats?

@fredk Yes of course. A proper experiment. I don't mind your mentioning all the steps to take. It has been a while since I even stepped into a lab. Good to be reminded. I will measure and maintain proper documentation. Just a tad busy right now so will probably get everything set by Sunday. I have been investigating what is used to oil-tan leather - it is not really tanning as much as a treatment of chrome-tanned leather, where the leather is immersed in oils/fats. What I have discovered is that in earlier times they used to use fish oils but now use synthetic oils and complexes. I plan to call a leather store here to see if they can direct me to someone who can give me more information. Since oil-tanned leather is already well exposed to and impregnated with oils and waxes, our results will be skewed unless we know what is used, at least in the leather I use. So I will start with veg-tanned leather and do the oil-tanned leather if I get all the relevant information. @chuck123wapati welcome to the experiment. Tallow is something to which I do not have access, so that is a welcome addition, The surface on which the leather is kept will be a part of the documentation. I think, @fredk, once we have everything set, we could share procedures, so we all follow the same methods.

@fredk you hit the nail on the head. Incidentally, oxidation of oils produces peroxides as well as alcohols, aldehydes and ketones, among other things. Not what we expect to put on our leathers. Oils oxidize on contact with the oxygen in the air - they smell unpleasant, or not, based on the exact type of chemical produced. But just because there is no smell, it does not mean there is no oxidation happening; it just means that the products are of a type that do not have a strong smell; longer chain versus short chain fatty acids but that is going too technical.. It suggests that oils should be stored in air tight containers to prolong their lives. And maybe used lightly on leathers, except dry leathers which needs lubrication. Maybe some sort of anti-oxidant could be used as well. Need to look that up.

@fredk, good to hear about the leather in your car and other older cars. . It appears more and more likely that it is not the type of oil, per se, that damages leather. Engine oil, being non-organic, should last forever, like mineral oil. Organic oils are fine as long as they are not exposed to air over long periods. Even the olive oils that I hear were fine over 1000s of years, were in airtight containers. So air is the villain, it appears, specifically Oxygen. Wonder what the products of oxidative damage of oils are? Do they damage leathers? Lots of more research needed. @chuck123wapati yes it is. I wish more people would join in, with the oils and leathers they have and in their locale.

@Northmount, thank you. I will follow those directions on saving articles. I do hope we get more of them! @fredk About the hand-cream, I am increasingly starting to suspect that most oils do, not harm leather, per se, 'if judiciously used' - those are the operative words.. But then, there is oil tanned leather and how the oils in those leathers are affected by added oils. I am looking into that, a bit pressed for time though.

@fredk my area is rather warmer than yours. I'm in Georgia. I think you have a good plan. I should be able to do more or less the same. it's getting cooler here now. I plan to keep one set in the boot of my car; the 2nd in the garage which is always either very warm or very cold and dark, and the third set will be outside, exposed to the elements. My only concern is mold. I can take care of it if it appears but that will affect the outcome. I wonder if we even need to include thread. We know natural fibres break down naturally over time, regardless of treatment. @chuck123wapati there are, of course, plenty of variables that can affect the leathers. and we cannot include everything. But this is an effort to determine if the oils are, by themselves good, bad or neutral on the leathers. This very simple experiment will at least give an idea of whether the oils directly affect the leathers in any way.

I did not know we had a greater range. Hmm. I usually stick to veg tanned or oil-tanned. Both actually feel like leather. Oil-tanned is chrome tanned as well, with extensive oil or wax treatment and the results are pretty nice. Other chrome tanned, some do too but others are so plasticky, might as well use faux leather. I plan to only use leather which feels like leather. I doubt that any leather that is so coated with synthetic material that it feels plasticky needs much conditioning. Incidentally, I have some fractionated coconut oil - it is supposed to have less of an aroma than cold pressed. Could have fooled me! I applied a drop on my the back of my hand and it is already smelling strongly. Got it from Costco too. I wonder if the smell disappears after a while.

@Burkhardt, practical.

@Sheilajeanne I agree! About the description specially - idiots! And I like neatsfoot oil and use it, never mind what a lot of people say, I notice they are either company sites trying to push their own products or the know-it-alls - It takes all kinds. I'm always glad to hear good reports about it. It has been around and found useful for so long, how can it suddenly become 'not good'? Often, tried and tested are the best or at least as good. Wish it was a little less smelly though. I spoke to @Northmount about creating a repository and he suggests saving the files that people provide as pdf files. I am not sure how to do that here. Could anyone guide me on that or do it?

@fredk Yes that will be a proper way of doing this. I will be using coconut oil, food grade mineral oil, probably sesame seed oil and whatever else I have inside. I will need to check. I have veg tanned scraps, oil-tanned scraps and other chrome tanned scraps. I am trying to get some information on what oils and waxes are used to finish oil-tanned leather. The oils and waxes used in finishing oil-tanned leathers, might affect the results of additional oils. Do you know anything about it?

@chuck123wapati Haha. Can't comment on that. My dog chews her collars or tries to get them off to chew them, pulling until she somehow slips them off, then chews them. So no leather collars for her now. For some reason, she does not chew any of my leathers lying around, only her own collars. She knows it is hers, 'to do with as she wishes'. Smart!