Need advice for hole punching - can't tell if I have poor tools or just my inexperience

[jcwoman]

Hi all!  I have to make a dozen or so (every few months) straps for dog "collars"  (special purpose items that are similar to collars) and muzzles.  My biggest struggle so far is getting the holes for the buckle prongs lined up correctly.  I need 2mm holes, so a watchband pricking tool is too small and belt punch dies are too big.  Here is what I'm using/have tried so far:

1.  Hand rotary punch tool.  Works fine, but kills my hands after about 8 or 10 punches.  I'm also not sure how to sharpen the punch as needed.  I would like to consider this my backup or "for emergency use only" tool.

2.  I bought this desktop tool:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C4WWKN6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details     It's not a bad tool, but I strongly suspect the punches that came with it are cheap.  I'm trying to sharpen them with a drill and sandpaper but they only seem to hold the sharpness for 3 or 4 punches.  I stuck some Osborne punches in my Amazon wishlist because I read that they are high quality punches.  Should I go ahead and buy a couple?  I realize I'll need to sharpen them, too, but hope they'll hold the edge longer.

Sort of a tangent, but I suspect that the way I'm clearing the punch is also ruining the edge.  As I said, I'm using a 2mm punch.  I do punch it into wax frequently to keep it "lubricated", but I still deal with clogs every 4th or 5th punch.  I found that the easiest way to clear the punch bit was to gently hammer a #17 wire brad (finish nail) into the end of it, which pushes the plug leather out the - exhaust hole - whatever it's called, haha!  But sometimes the plug is so jammed that I have to wiggle the brad around and basically dig a layer out the tip, and I think this might be dulling the punch edge.  Is there a better way to clear such tiny punches?

Last question for now:  even if I find an easier way to clear the punches and keep them sharp, is it normal to have to clear the plug out every 4 or 5 punches?  The way they're designed - and I admit to being completely naive - it seems like the plug should just travel up the punch to the exhaust hole and fall out on it's own as you use it.  But instead it just jams up in there before it reaches the hole. 

Oh, I guess I should add that I'm working with 3/4 or 6/7 weight veg-tan straps.  Should be easy, yes?

Edited July 6, 2022 by jcwoman
added an afterthought for clarity

[toxo]

57 minutes ago, jcwoman said:

Hi all!  I have to make a dozen or so (every few months) straps for dog "collars"  (special purpose items that are similar to collars) and muzzles.  My biggest struggle so far is getting the holes for the buckle prongs lined up correctly.  I need 2mm holes, so a watchband pricking tool is too small and belt punch dies are too big.  Here is what I'm using/have tried so far:

1.  Hand rotary punch tool.  Works fine, but kills my hands after about 8 or 10 punches.  I'm also not sure how to sharpen the punch as needed.  I would like to consider this my backup or "for emergency use only" tool.

2.  I bought this desktop tool:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C4WWKN6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details     It's not a bad tool, but I strongly suspect the punches that came with it are cheap.  I'm trying to sharpen them with a drill and sandpaper but they only seem to hold the sharpness for 3 or 4 punches.  I stuck some Osborne punches in my Amazon wishlist because I read that they are high quality punches.  Should I go ahead and buy a couple?  I realize I'll need to sharpen them, too, but hope they'll hold the edge longer.

Sort of a tangent, but I suspect that the way I'm clearing the punch is also ruining the edge.  As I said, I'm using a 2mm punch.  I do punch it into wax frequently to keep it "lubricated", but I still deal with clogs every 4th or 5th punch.  I found that the easiest way to clear the punch bit was to gently hammer a #17 wire brad (finish nail) into the end of it, which pushes the plug leather out the - exhaust hole - whatever it's called, haha!  But sometimes the plug is so jammed that I have to wiggle the brad around and basically dig a layer out the tip, and I think this might be dulling the punch edge.  Is there a better way to clear such tiny punches?

Last question for now:  even if I find an easier way to clear the punches and keep them sharp, is it normal to have to clear the plug out every 4 or 5 punches?  The way they're designed - and I admit to being completely naive - it seems like the plug should just travel up the punch to the exhaust hole and fall out on it's own as you use it.  But instead it just jams up in there before it reaches the hole. 

Oh, I guess I should add that I'm working with 3/4 or 6/7 weight veg-tan straps.  Should be easy, yes?

I find these shapes very useful. I just put a strong magnet under the ram on my arbor press (similar to your press) and any of the shapes will stick to it and just pull down on the handle.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yuhtech-52Pcs-Leather-Hollow-Cutter/dp/B07YBZVQQ4/ref=pd_sbs_sccl_3_2/259-3317810-1066024?pd_rd_w=MigSu&content-id=amzn1.sym.0b2f9572-34c5-41a4-9aef-ddde079c4608&pf_rd_p=0b2f9572-34c5-41a4-9aef-ddde079c4608&pf_rd_r=CHB5VDMKRSCT23GFX5HV&pd_rd_wg=0TT3P&pd_rd_r=148c932e-7ba2-4eff-aead-aa3588658e17&pd_rd_i=B07YBZVQQ4&psc=1

[Dwight]

If you remove the square "arm" that travels up and down . . . you can then take it to a drill press . . . and drill a hole in it about an inch and a half deep . . . the size of the diameter of the punch handles . . . and by putting a piece of saran wrap (or 2 or 3) over it . . . it will stick in the hole.  Put the leather under it . . . pull down the arm . . .  presto a hole.

DON'T waste time messing around with cleaning it out . . . you punch the leather . . .it'll clean itself out . . . they are designed to do that . . . and they will do that.

ALSO . . . make sure there is another piece of ugly old leather under the piece you are punching.  THAT is where you are probably dulling your punch.

I've got punches I have never sharpened . . . have used since 2000 . . . they still punch pretty round holes . . . and I just hit em once or twice with my mallet . . . belts / sheaths / slings . . . and I've even done a couple of dog collars.

May God bless,

Dwight

[jcwoman]

I'm not following the Saran wrap thing.  The desktop punch tool has punches that I can swap out using a keyless chuck.  I can buy better quality punches and use them with it. 

I know the punches are designed to clean themselves out, but I'm finding that they just get impacted instead.  Possibly because the punches that came with the tool are cheap Chinese junk, which is why I'm thinking of buying Osborne's. 

Oh, also the tool came with a soft plate (I think nylon or some other soft plastic) that I punch into.  So it should NOT be dulling the punches, but again....  they may be cheap junk. 

[dikman]

I had a couple of punches where the punched out wads were jamming so I opened out and smoothed the back end of the punch a bit with a carbide bit in a Dremel. I'm not sure if you can do that with a 2mm punch as it's pretty small?

[Dwight]

3 hours ago, jcwoman said:

I'm not following the Saran wrap thing.  The desktop punch tool has punches that I can swap out using a keyless chuck.  I can buy better quality punches and use them with it. 

I know the punches are designed to clean themselves out, but I'm finding that they just get impacted instead.  Possibly because the punches that came with the tool are cheap Chinese junk, which is why I'm thinking of buying Osborne's. 

Oh, also the tool came with a soft plate (I think nylon or some other soft plastic) that I punch into.  So it should NOT be dulling the punches, but again....  they may be cheap junk. 

Try these . . . they are fairly inexpensive . . . work like a champ . . . 

The saran wrap is for the punch . . . if you drill the hole.  It would keep the punch from slipping out . . . But I didn't see where you could put something up in that shaft . . . and if this Tandy shaft would go up there . . . or in your keyless chuck . . . you'll love what you get here.

And I know folks use nylon . . . other plastics . . . etc . . . but a piece of leather under the one you are punching is much better for your punch faces.

Have fun . . . may God bless,

Dwight

https://tandyleather.com/products/mini-leather-punch-set

[TomE]

I like the Osborne rotary and spring punches.  The spring punch tubes are longer with a more gradual taper which is useful for punching through thick leather.  Both types of punch tubes are removable and can be "sharpened" on a buffing wheel.  They shouldn't be sharpened like a cutting blade, just polished to remove machining marks and trued up if the contact surface is uneven.  The copper anvil on these punches can also be trued up with a file when it becomes grooved.  The so-called punch sharpeners that bevel the inside of the punch tube will cause the leather plugs to be compressed in the tube, making them harder to eject.  If a new punch is jamming I punch through oil tanned leather or a lightweight slippery plastic until inside of the tube becomes smoother.

[fredk]

If the punch is sharp, all good advice above, but the plugs still get stuck, I use a pipe* lighter to heat the end of the punch up. The leather cooks and shrivels and can then just be tapped out

* pipe lighter, like a cigarette/cigar lighter but the flame comes out at an angle to the side and they are a bit more like a mini blow lamp

[Hardrada]

6 hours ago, fredk said:

If the punch is sharp, all good advice above, but the plugs still get stuck, I use a pipe* lighter to heat the end of the punch up. The leather cooks and shrivels and can then just be tapped out

* pipe lighter, like a cigarette/cigar lighter but the flame comes out at an angle to the side and they are a bit more like a mini blow lamp

I wouldn't light my pipe with one of those! They look like hand torches! They should probably be OK to heat up brass stamps, though.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Hardrada

[Hardrada]

@jcwoman: check out Tandy's Crafttool punches. They have sizes all the way down to 1/64" and even "needle" punches. They might not be KS Blade top notch quality, but they're still good quality. They don't clog and clean themselves out automatically. That's all I use, along with a template to: first mark the holes by pressing the punch with my hand as it sits in the template's hole over the strap, and then removing the template and lining up the punch over the mark made previously and whack it with a poly mallet. Oval punches can be tricky, but round ones are a zinch with this method and tools.
 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Hardrada

[Tequila]

I really like these punches, very well made and stay sharp 

Here’s a link for the 2mm on Amazon Gedore Punch

[fredk]

1 hour ago, Hardrada said:

I wouldn't light my pipe with one of those! They look like hand torches! They should probably be OK to heat up brass stamps, though.

They do well lighting my pipe, especially outside if its windy. I reckoned it was so good I've bought more for my tool boxes

[TomE]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

They do well lighting my pipe, especially outside if its windy. I reckoned it was so good I've bought more for my tool boxes

Zippo makes a refillable butane insert for their lighters with one or two burners.  I use it to thaw gate latches in the winter.  Throws a lot of heat and doesn't quit in cold weather.  Now I'm thinking it might be an alternative to the alcohol lamp I use for creasing and burnishing.

[MtlBiker]

14 hours ago, jcwoman said:

Possibly because the punches that came with the tool are cheap Chinese junk, which is why I'm thinking of buying Osborne's. 

Just FWIW, I've been VERY disappointed with the last few Osborne tools I've purchased.  No way near their reputed quality and it's been suggested here that in the last few years their stuff has been real crappy.  I've had to return a round knife, edge creasers and lastly one of their cobbler's hammers.  Crap.  Not even close to their quality of a few years ago.  I won't be buying Osborne products again.

 

[Hardrada]

8 hours ago, fredk said:

They do well lighting my pipe, especially outside if its windy. I reckoned it was so good I've bought more for my tool boxes

I'm amazed you haven't charred the briar. I don't even like to use the Bics with their current flamethrower-sized flame for that purpose because of immediately charred rims.

I use a Kiribi. Angled soft flame that's also very handy to burn the ends of thread.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Hardrada

[chuck123wapati]

6 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Just FWIW, I've been VERY disappointed with the last few Osborne tools I've purchased.  No way near their reputed quality and it's been suggested here that in the last few years their stuff has been real crappy.  I've had to return a round knife, edge creasers and lastly one of their cobbler's hammers.  Crap.  Not even close to their quality of a few years ago.  I won't be buying Osborne products again.

 

Most of the tools i buy are old/used , i buy from eBay as well as garage sales auctions etc. or i make my own.  there is a guy on here that sells old tools also. i think he has a blog page here.

[Sheilajeanne]

18 hours ago, Dwight said:

And I know folks use nylon . . . other plastics . . . etc . . . but a piece of leather under the one you are punching is much better for your punch faces.

 

I was using a poundo board under my punches, and chisels, and found they became dull quite quickly. I now use a really thick piece of belly leather, and have had no more problems!

[RockyAussie]

On 7/7/2022 at 5:40 AM, jcwoman said:

Hi all!  I have to make a dozen or so (every few months) straps for dog "collars"  (special purpose items that are similar to collars) and muzzles.  My biggest struggle so far is getting the holes for the buckle prongs lined up correctly.  I need 2mm holes, so a watchband pricking tool is too small and belt punch dies are too big.  Here is what I'm using/have tried so far:

1.  Hand rotary punch tool.  Works fine, but kills my hands after about 8 or 10 punches.  I'm also not sure how to sharpen the punch as needed.  I would like to consider this my backup or "for emergency use only" tool.

2.  I bought this desktop tool:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C4WWKN6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details     It's not a bad tool, but I strongly suspect the punches that came with it are cheap.  I'm trying to sharpen them with a drill and sandpaper but they only seem to hold the sharpness for 3 or 4 punches.  I stuck some Osborne punches in my Amazon wishlist because I read that they are high quality punches.  Should I go ahead and buy a couple?  I realize I'll need to sharpen them, too, but hope they'll hold the edge longer.

Sort of a tangent, but I suspect that the way I'm clearing the punch is also ruining the edge.  As I said, I'm using a 2mm punch.  I do punch it into wax frequently to keep it "lubricated", but I still deal with clogs every 4th or 5th punch.  I found that the easiest way to clear the punch bit was to gently hammer a #17 wire brad (finish nail) into the end of it, which pushes the plug leather out the - exhaust hole - whatever it's called, haha!  But sometimes the plug is so jammed that I have to wiggle the brad around and basically dig a layer out the tip, and I think this might be dulling the punch edge.  Is there a better way to clear such tiny punches?

Last question for now:  even if I find an easier way to clear the punches and keep them sharp, is it normal to have to clear the plug out every 4 or 5 punches?  The way they're designed - and I admit to being completely naive - it seems like the plug should just travel up the punch to the exhaust hole and fall out on it's own as you use it.  But instead it just jams up in there before it reaches the hole. 

Oh, I guess I should add that I'm working with 3/4 or 6/7 weight veg-tan straps.  Should be easy, yes?

I know where your at on this and with a 2mm punch on the thicker stuff you are pushing it big time. The best I can offer is doing it by hand is always going to give you a lot of trouble getting it going in straight every time. Soon as you don't your punch will fold in. There are a couple of methods I use that may help, 1. put the punch into a battery drill and spin it as you push in slow. This allows the leather to heat a little and will jam up less. Still wax the punch occasionally. 2. Even better get a small drill press and do the same thing but the drill press will keep you going in straighter and also allow you to set up guides to move your holes along at a perfect distance. With this set up shown below I put in a peg that I use to put in each hole as I move along the distance I set.

This set up at the moment is for going down the edge of stubby coolers but the idea will work for what ever width you want depending on where you position the peg in the first place.

Last thing....it is easier if you have a clicker press even if it is just a 4 or 5 ton hand model. You just get the knives made up and a jig to hold the knife where you want.

 

[bruce johnson]

Here's a few short punch observations and experiences.

The steep angle cheap drive punches will drive you nuts in anything but thin leather. The bevel binds and more so the thicker the leather. 

Osborne cutting and punching tools didn't come sharp a hundred years ago and still don't. They were tools for the professional worker and just like most of the users now, everybody had an opinion how they should be sharpened -what taper, what angle, and how fine the edge needed to be. It was left up to the user to do the final edge to suit themselves. 

You can chuck a round punch into a variable speed drill and turn it slowly against your favorite abrasive or do it by hand to sharpen to whatever arbitrary angle somebody likes. Most of the new punches need some tune up. If you leave the edge dull, you hit harder and holes are not as clean usually. I punch into low density polyethylene (LDPE) on a shoeing anvil. My personal drive and strap end punches are sharp enough to use by hand if I want. I have also put probably 100,000+ holes in leather using screw in punch tubes in a minipunch or maxi punch handle chucked into a drill press and turned on. Even in wet skirting leather they don't stick if they are spinning.  Sharpen the tube every so often with fine wet-dry and go on. The punchings will fly out of the tube in random directions so wear eye protection if you choose this. 

I've had punches that do exactly what you say - 4-5 punchings and they hang up. They pack tight and stop clearing. It can be something like corrsion or a rough spot in the tube catching them or the tube not having allowance to clear. I give them a chance- I wind some coarse steel wool onto a slow spinning drill bit and make a steel wool QTip. I run that in and out of the tube a few times from the top end to clean the inside of the tube and punch some Paraffin. If it still sticks, I throw the tube or punch away, life's too short to mess with it any more. 

I like the cone shaped punch sharpeners and also used a tapered diamond file for smaller punch tubes. I sharpen and make my bevel from the outside and I am going to make a bur that will fold in when I buff the end of the punch. A few light twists and that inside burr is removed.

[fredk]

I came across these punches; the working end is much more parallel, even more than the photo shows. I have them in 0.5mm, 0.8mm, 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm. Most excellent for making hole in thick-ish leather that is not 4 times wider on one side than the other

[Doc Reaper]

I have used many hole punches down through the years, straight black ones purchased at hobby stores, silver handled with interchangeable cutting heads, steel punches are great. 
 

I have scraps of leather specifically for hole punching, I sharpened em once the day I purchased them.

sharpen the outside of the punch ONLY! Sharpening from the inside makes the hole larger on the inside of the shaft and the cut pieces travel up a thinning tunnel which will cause minor problems (jams) 

the angle at which the punch makes a big difference also. Shallow angles last longer (usually factory ground is best)

if the angle is too long it will dull horribly quick and may even cause the sharpened edge to roll (high tin amounts will also do this - even on round knives)

im seeing a lot of businesses mix in cheaper metals - like tin, and it is done to help their bottom line

TOOL MANUFACTURERS TAKE NOTE - WE WILL PAY THE XTRA DOLLAR, RETURN TO OLD SCHOOL METHODS WHEN MAKING TOOLS

china will keep making cheap because folks wanna save a damned penny

[Frodo]

I learned a trick from watching Tony {dieselpunkro]  Videos

lay a piece of see through paper tape over your pattern or * leather

rub wax on the tape and the punch poop does sticks very little

 

* will not hurt your leather

[jcwoman]

Thanks, everyone, lots to take in!  Some of this advice I have already found in general Google searches.  I should add that some things like trying to sharpen or polish the inside of the punch just ain't happening here.  As I mentioned, the only thing I can get into the 2mm punch is a wire brad.... or think unbent paper clip (which is too soft, but just about the same diameter as the wire brads).

I'll take a look at the Tandy punches and make sure they're not Osborne's. 

I love RockyAussie's idea of using a drill press to make straight lines, but can you advise if it would work with 1/2" wide leather strips?  I feel that I'm in a tricky spot:  bigger than watch bands, but smaller than everything else, so very few people are doing the same work that I am.  Makes it tricky!!

13 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

I wind some coarse steel wool onto a slow spinning drill bit and make a steel wool QTip. I run that in and out of the tube a few times from the top end to clean the inside of the tube

I really want to do this, but the punch size I'm using is too small. 

[Frodo]

Amazon.com: 6 Pcs Leather Hole Punch (1.5mm-4mm) Hollow Punch Set，Leather Punch Tool， Leather Working Tools for Leather Watch Band, Leather, Gasket Belt, Fabric, Canvas Paper Plastics. : Tools & Home Improvement

[RockyAussie]

10 hours ago, jcwoman said:

I love RockyAussie's idea of using a drill press to make straight lines, but can you advise if it would work with 1/2" wide leather strips?  I feel that I'm in a tricky spot:  bigger than watch bands, but smaller than everything else, so very few people are doing the same work that I am.  Makes it tricky!!

It will work fine but I may be tempted to put a fence on both sides of the strap to keep it firmly in place. Many of my punches I polish the edge but for ones in the drill press I just leave them sanded as it sort of helps like a sawing effect which is a better finish on the back side. A side benefit of doing the holes this way is that you can leave the punch spin long enough in place to give a nice burnish look to the hole at the same time. Works real well with webbing holes as well.