Chisel Size for Pocket Projects?

[Tugadude]

It has already been established that the statement about pricking irons was wrong.  Some are not made for piercing all the way through, but some are.

[Burkhardt]

50 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

It has already been established that the statement about pricking irons was wrong.  Some are not made for piercing all the way through, but some are.

And you're talking to who?

[Klara]

What I find interesting about chisels, pricking irons and awls is the price differences: The way I see it, people who want to punch the holes all the way through are looking for the "perfect" chisels/irons which are expensive. 

Whereas for only marking stitches, any cheap chisel will do but you need an awl and practice. A decent awl can be had for about $ 10 (plus sharpening equipment which you'll need sooner or later anyway), an excellent one (Barry King) was under $ 100 when I looked last. Which is still better than buying several sets (I don't always use the same stitch length) of expensive stitching chisels.

So for me it's a no-brainer: Cheap chisels + cheap awl + lots of practice = good results for little money. 

[Heartless]

7 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

Not sure where getting your info but these show they're diagonal and are definitely meant to pound all the way through as is the ones below that aren't diamond shaped.

look at the hole those make - diamond shaped - they most definitely ARE diamond chisels.

[Tugadude]

4 hours ago, Klara said:

What I find interesting about chisels, pricking irons and awls is the price differences: The way I see it, people who want to punch the holes all the way through are looking for the "perfect" chisels/irons which are expensive. 

Whereas for only marking stitches, any cheap chisel will do but you need an awl and practice. A decent awl can be had for about $ 10 (plus sharpening equipment which you'll need sooner or later anyway), an excellent one (Barry King) was under $ 100 when I looked last. Which is still better than buying several sets (I don't always use the same stitch length) of expensive stitching chisels.

So for me it's a no-brainer: Cheap chisels + cheap awl + lots of practice = good results for little money. 

The same could be said about most anything.  A Timex quartz watch is $20 and a Rolex many thousands.  The Timex tells time better, has a stopwatch, an alarm, dual time zones, etc., etc.  The Rolex also is going to cost thousands to maintain over the years.  And yet people flock to buy them to the point some models have lead times that reach into years.  

If someone has the means, why shouldn't they buy whatever they want?  The smaller makers do a lot of the work by hand, hence the higher cost.  Sadly, some Chinese companies are beginning to copy their designs and selling them at a fraction of the cost.  Are they as good?  In some ways yes, in some ways maybe not.  But they are cheap and serviceable.

If cheap and serviceable is your jam, go for it!  If you don't mind paying more for what you perceive as "worth it", then go for it!

[Tugadude]

6 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

And you're talking to who?

I was talking to everyone.  I was referring to the following, which is not completely accurate as I clearly showed.  I don't mean any offense, but when people try to eliminate confusion and then make a statement that isn't true, then it isn't helping anyone.

The subject of chisels, irons, pricking, stitching, etc. can be very confusing but doesn't need to be.  That's why I asked that a "sticky" topic be placed in the area where sewing leather is discussed.  I even invited Nigel Armitage, a well-known leatherworking expert to comment.  

The bottom line is there ARE companies who provide stitching chisels with slanted, flat teeth which are explicitly designed to penetrate fully through leather.  And there are others who provide similar irons and caution against doing anything but marking leather with them.  

Anyways, please take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended.  I'm not calling you or anyone out just because.  

What is frustrating is the misinformation that is spread on this and other forums by people who are "anti-chisel" and have never given them a chance.  They are welcome to think whatever they want, but fairness is important.

The fact is there are leather companies using chisels selling a lot of product and they have happy customers.  Sounds good to me.

9 hours ago, Burkhardt said:

the diagonal blade ones are pricking irons and are not meant to go all the way thru the leather, they are just for marking where stitching goes, you then use an awl to finish the holes while stitching.

The diamond point chisels are meant to go all the way thru the leather, and as such do not require an awl to complete the hole when they are used correctly.

i hope that helps clear up some of the confusion regarding the different types of chisels you see available

 

[DaveP]

34 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

The bottom line is there ARE companies who provide stitching chisels with slanted, flat teeth which are explicitly designed to penetrate fully through leather.  And there are others who provide similar irons and caution against doing anything but marking leather with them.  

Absolutely! The Kevin Lee irons are a perfect example of flat slanted teeth/ tines. If you enlarge the picture I posted above you will see they are sharpened. They are absolutely made for going through several layers of leather. I also use an awl to open up the hole a little for ease of saddle stitching. I use a diamond awl. 

[chuck123wapati]

20 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

I was talking to everyone.  I was referring to the following, which is not completely accurate as I clearly showed.  I don't mean any offense, but when people try to eliminate confusion and then make a statement that isn't true, then it isn't helping anyone.

The subject of chisels, irons, pricking, stitching, etc. can be very confusing but doesn't need to be.  That's why I asked that a "sticky" topic be placed in the area where sewing leather is discussed.  I even invited Nigel Armitage, a well-known leatherworking expert to comment.  

The bottom line is there ARE companies who provide stitching chisels with slanted, flat teeth which are explicitly designed to penetrate fully through leather.  And there are others who provide similar irons and caution against doing anything but marking leather with them.  

Anyways, please take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended.  I'm not calling you or anyone out just because.  

What is frustrating is the misinformation that is spread on this and other forums by people who are "anti-chisel" and have never given them a chance.  They are welcome to think whatever they want, but fairness is important.

The fact is there are leather companies using chisels selling a lot of product and they have happy customers.  Sounds good to me.

 

I don't think anyone is anti chisel, at least i didn't get that from any comments, how ever some realize they have their limits just like any tool. I'll be willing to bet almost everyone uses them in some form. Here's the deal for me i have chisels and i use them on every project if possible. With that being said some times the teeth just aren't long enough to go all the way through so guess what i need an awl. So i have learned that if my project is to thick i simply mark the outside layer then use an awl to push through the other two layers it saves well over an hour of chiseling through three layers separately then trying to line everything up then having to clean the holes anyway with an awl. its simple and fast, mark, use your awl and then sew. secondly i glue my edges so any chisel holes usually have some amount of glue up and need an awl run through it. Thirdly try doing a mitered edge on a round box with chisels. Simply some things just cant be done with chisels.

On misinformation its easy to do without being intentional. We all see what we do everyday and how we do it. Sure something can be made exclusively with chisels if its flat and thin enough but that's not all i see in my world.  I see weird shaped and thick stuff to often to just say buy these and your all set.  But i guess I'm different I don't want to, really I just cant its no fun to me, make cookie cutter projects and blindly follow Tandy patterns ( NOT THAT ITS A BAD THING)I like to learn and discover and explore and above all push myself. i haven't mastered awl sewing but I'm trying.  We just have to remember how big the leather world really is from watch straps to Saddles and there isn't just one way of doing things or one tool that will do it all..

[Tugadude]

Chuck, there are some who turn their noses up at stitching chisels, perhaps not in this thread, but in others I've read.  So that's what I am addressing with that comment.  

All tools have limitations and I have never said an awl is unnecessary, not by a long shot.  I have several and when I need them, I use them.  And they work great.  

I went back and read what I posted in this thread and I don't see any reason for someone to be offended.  If I'm wrong, I sincerely apologize as that wasn't my intent.  

 

[Tugadude]

The original poster was discussing chisels size as it relates to some specific project, a small EDC organizer.  For that project, chisels make perfect sense.  They will provide a quick solution and help to maintain straight lines with consistent stitches.  

After that, a person's taste will dictate what they prefer when it comes to spacing, thread size, color, etc.  We all have a particular appearance that speaks to us.  And they aren't all the same.