Diagnosing an issue w/ Singer 29-4

[Teradee]

Hi all!

I just became the proud owner of a 29-4.  As I was oiling and beginning the cleaning process, I threaded it up and tried to sew with it.  

Anyway, every time I move the wheel and the needle is about to pierce the leather, it sounds like the internals are bumping together and the needle “bounces”, but never touches the leather.  

It’s gotta be something inside the machine, but I can normally push things around and at least get the machine to move past the point where it’s binding.  
 

anyone have this issue with the 29-4?

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

A Singer patcher should operate smoothly as you rotate the balance wheel. Try to isolate the location of the bind and clanking. There should never be any binding or clanking of parts. I would recommend removing the revolving head assembly to see if the problem is somewhere inside there. Also, replace the needle with a new System 135x16, or 135x17, or a system 29x3 or x4 needle. I once bought a 29-4 patcher that had a household needle in it. Those needles are too short to reach the shuttle.

[Constabulary]

Keep in mind that the 29-4 are more than 100 yrs old and parts can be worn or even worn off. Not sure if I got you right but I´d check it you have some sideways play on the top shaft. If there is play and you have a load change on the inner cam (the one on the top shaft you see through the window on the rear) you may hear a clacking sound (most likely its the cam pulley banging slightly against the casting). First thing I would try is oiling all the cams and rollers and the shaft bushings with an heavier oil like motor oil f.i..

[Teradee]

Thanks @Wizcrafts and @Constabulary!  

I will try your suggestions right away!  
 

(by the way, I wasn’t sure I could use a heavier oil in these machines…I was always warned to only us sewing machine oil.  That said, when I opened the window in the rear and look at the cam and where it connects to the shaft that rotates the shuttle, it’s coated in a very thick grease of some kind.  And when I tighten the large screw below that window, it just spins and spins.  That might be a culprit as well I’m guessing. )

[Constabulary]

Slow running machines with a "rather simple" mechanical system can use heavier oil IMO. It will not kill the machine. I would not use heavier oil on domestic sewing machines but patchers with their big cams, rollers racks and pinions are tough! Some folks even put grease on the cams and it will not hurt but will be messy with the years. Sticky grease can make the machines run a bit more silent and sometimes compensates wear on parts.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Constabulary

[kgg]

13 hours ago, Teradee said:

I was always warned to only us sewing machine oil.

I am probably an odd one as I only use synthetic oil in all my machines, new or old. An example is a Singer 29k-71 (1998) that I did own that also had a helper domestic motor installed before being originally sold by Landis. I did do a short video on how it sounded and the ease at which the machine could be hand cranked.

https://odysee.com/@SingerSewing:0/singer:a

kgg

 

[Quade]

Which oil to you use?  I was thinking sewing machine oil is designed to be easily washed out. I always accumulate a little on my needle between sewing session.  The pump pumps it up into the front of the machine. 

[Teradee]

Update:  I noticed with the shuttle out, the binding doesn’t occur.  With the shuttle in, it gets “stuck” at one point in the cycle and binds.  
 

Do I need a new shuttle?  (It looks fine…no sharp or rough edges, etc).  Or is this something else perhaps?

[MikeRock]

I had mine jump one tooth on the rack and it caught a bit.  Did NOT let needle pick up bobbin thread.  I think it was Wiz that helped me out, or Bob Kovar.

A Happy and Healthy New Year to all.

God bless

[CowboyBob]

13 hours ago, Teradee said:

Update:  I noticed with the shuttle out, the binding doesn’t occur.  With the shuttle in, it gets “stuck” at one point in the cycle and binds.  
 

Do I need a new shuttle?  (It looks fine…no sharp or rough edges, etc).  Or is this something else perhaps?

Did you put some oil in the 2 holes to the right of the shuttle underneath the needle plate? And on the shuttle driver shaft? And how much play clockwise & counter-clockwise is there in the shuttle driver?

[Teradee]

Yes, I oiled those points and there is a little play back-and-forth with the shaft.  It definitely feels a little sloppy. Is there a way to tighten up the shaft or the function of that mechanism?
 

By the way, thanks again for all the help and advice everyone! This forum is incredibly helpful to people like myself who are just getting started in this work!

[Constabulary]

3 hours ago, Teradee said:

Is there a way to tighten up the shaft or the function of that mechanism?

You mean the top shaft?  Then no cause you have a pinned cam on either side of the shaft. If it causes mechanical issues (but I do not think so) I would add a very thin washer but removing one of the cams (in worst case) can cause more issues cause the pins are tapered and sometimes they are super tight.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Constabulary

[CowboyBob]

On 12/31/2022 at 6:00 PM, Teradee said:

Thanks @Wizcrafts and @Constabulary!  

I will try your suggestions right away!  
 

(by the way, I wasn’t sure I could use a heavier oil in these machines…I was always warned to only us sewing machine oil.  That said, when I opened the window in the rear and look at the cam and where it connects to the shaft that rotates the shuttle, it’s coated in a very thick grease of some kind.  And when I tighten the large screw below that window, it just spins and spins.  That might be a culprit as well I’m guessing. )

That screw should tighten up,if not someone must of ran it loose yrs ago & it ruined the threads.Also NEVER use grease esp on a roller,it will build up in front of the roller & cause it to stop turning when the grease dries up,it won't lube the inside of the bearing of the roller either.Sewing machine oil is best,motor oil attracts lint.

[CowboyBob]

4 hours ago, Constabulary said:

You mean the top shaft?  Then no cause you have a pinned cam on either side of the shaft. If it causes mechanical issues (but I do not think so) I would add a very thin washer but removing one of the cams (in worst case) can cause more issues cause the pins are tapered and sometimes they are super tight.

I think he's talking about the shuttle carrier shaft & the gears.There's a busing in the carriwer shat but it's no longer available.I've seen machines so wornout that they bind because the backside of the rack eats into the casting & makes the gears real loose.There's nothing you can do except braze the backside of the rack gears to get them closer & then grind off for a tight fit.

[Teradee]

I think I will post a short video and show you the parts im referring to, and how it all performs.  There's not much to these, but for some reason I'm not seeing where its binding.  

More to come!