Rivets popping off

[BFaehn]

In need oh help. I'm making somehangingbeltbuckle displays. The belt part slides over a piece of leather about 1 1/2 inches wide and holes the the other end pops into like a belt. The problem is when I put the rivets on and I test out putting a buckle on the rivets pop of and the leather tab pulls off. I've tried shorter/longer rivets and I've tried punching thr holes bigger. Any insight? I usually don't have an issue with my rivets except with these projects. . They are double capped rivets. This is the one I did previously.  I ended up using Chicago screws just to make sure they didn't pop off. These next ones are a large order and would rather not use those for all 28. 

[Tugadude]

Can you show a picture of the rivets after they came loose?  I mean separate from the project.  That might reveal the mode of failure.

[Gezzer]

Maybe contact the belt end down so not as much stress on the rivet ( it is just display right ? )

[Frodo]

Are you snapping the rivet on the post with just your finger or are you using a hammer and set tool?

 

 

[Handstitched]

You could try hitting the setter a little harder?

[JamesScott]

I always found hammer and anvil set rivets, always had issues. Only when I got a leather press, did the problems stop. I found the only way to do them well, was with a press. May not be your problem, but an option none-the-less

[toxo]

7 hours ago, BFaehn said:

In need oh help. I'm making somehangingbeltbuckle displays. The belt part slides over a piece of leather about 1 1/2 inches wide and holes the the other end pops into like a belt. The problem is when I put the rivets on and I test out putting a buckle on the rivets pop of and the leather tab pulls off. I've tried shorter/longer rivets and I've tried punching thr holes bigger. Any insight? I usually don't have an issue with my rivets except with these projects. . They are double capped rivets. This is the one I did previously.  I ended up using Chicago screws just to make sure they didn't pop off. These next ones are a large order and would rather not use those for all 28. 

 

I've found that finding the right size head/shaft/colour can be a bit of a challenge. I have thousands of the things and it always takes a while to get sorted. The most important bit is the shaft length. If it's too long it will just bend and the top cap will end up some distance away from the bottom cap. I've found shaft length just protruding above the leather surface is about right. Firmness of the leather can also play a part, soft leather will allow a slightly shorter shaft because the top cap will sink into the surface.

[Klara]

You could switch to copper rivets and burrs? Or, for less money but more time, sew the leather tabs to the base.

[Dwight]

I'm simply gonna go out on a limb . . . and say you need to learn how to set rivets.

I've used a hammer . . . a standard setting tool . . . (cheap one at that) . . . and a little steel plate . . . or the reverse setting tool (depending on the effect I wanted) and NEVER have any problems with the rivets I buy from Tandy.

NOW . . . I do like their all brass rivets better . . . truth be known . . . but the other ones work . . . never had a customer holler at me about his rivets popping off . . . been almost 25 years since I got involved in this.

May God bless,

Dwight

[chuck123wapati]

You aren't installing the leather tab properly. all the stress is on the head of the rivet which is incorrect. It doesnt matter how you set the rivet  it wont hold that way. Your leather tab/belt thingy needs to go through a slot in your back panel and be riveted on the backside so the stress is on the shank of the rivet not on the head of the rivet. 

BUT in your piece i can see from past experience this may make the tab stick straight out at the wrong angle unless you form it to lay flat. 

I would sew the tabs on the front side and forget rivets completely. By making the tabs long enough, and finished on both ends, to put the three holes in it also then sew each side up to the rivet point leaving the tongue free to slide into the buckle.

[Handstitched]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

never had a customer holler at me about his rivets popping off

 same here, I  just learnt to hit 'em harder, simple    

HS 

[Doc Reaper]

Almost all of the quick rivets are cheaply made Chinese garbage. Mostly made for aesthetics and are not made to be working fasteners, they never held for me for any length of time. I have decided to leave the quick rivets for hair boughs (they have no real weight, they’re for hair control). I have found tube rivets to do a wonderful job at holding hanging displays, or just use line 24 snaps instead 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Doc Reaper
I’m slow

[chuck123wapati]

9 minutes ago, Doc Reaper said:

Almost all of the quick rivets are cheaply made Chinese garbage. Mostly made for aesthetics and are not made to be working fasteners, they never held for me for any length of time. I have decided to leave the quick rivets for hair boughs (they have no real weight, they’re for hair control). I have found tube rivets to do a wonderful job at holding hanging displays, or just use line 24 snaps instead 

in this case if the rivet heads  don't give the leather will just pull off over the heads anyways sooner or later. Or they will get loose and the tab will spin on them and the buckles will drop. Rivets are  the wrong method of attaching IMO. But yea those rivets are pretty weak. 

 

55 minutes ago, Handstitched said:

 same here, I  just learnt to hit 'em harder, simple    

HS 

Hit em like you live!! fast and hard! old rough neck saying lol.

[chuck123wapati]

here is some good info on setting rivets and how they should be attached to the main piece, rivets are designed so the stress is on the post not the head if you install rivets with the stress on the head they will failrivets1.pdf. More info is in "the art of making leather cases,  vol1" By Al Stohlman.

Just now, chuck123wapati said:

here is some good info on setting rivets and how they should be attached to the main piece, rivets are designed so the stress is on the post not the head if you install rivets with the stress on the head they will failrivets1.pdf. More info is in "the art of making leather cases,  vol1" By Al Stohlman.

rivets1.pdf

[BFaehn]

I appreciate all your advice! Thank you so much. I will try some different things and may change my design up in the future. Thanks. 

[Handstitched]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:08 PM, chuck123wapati said:

Hit em like you live!! fast and hard! old rough neck saying lol.

 No complaints from me on that  friend    

HS 

[Tugadude]

On 3/21/2023 at 10:43 AM, chuck123wapati said:

here is some good info on setting rivets and how they should be attached to the main piece, rivets are designed so the stress is on the post not the head if you install rivets with the stress on the head they will failrivets1.pdf. More info is in "the art of making leather cases,  vol1" By Al Stohlman.

rivets1.pdf 1.03 MB · 7 downloads

That is a great resource and the reason I asked to see the rivets after the fact.  They might hold a clue, being too short or too long, for example.  Or bent, a result of having been too long to begin with.