Burnt edges anyone tried this yet?

[ThomG]

I'm just starting to learn about leather working, however I've been using a laser cutter for about 13 years now, so using it for leather is a no brainer. I see people talking about burned edges, char, smoke on the surface of the leather, etc. I have always cleaned whatever I laser cut, acrylic, wood, etc. with that mechanics orange hand cleaner with pumice. I have tried it on several leather pieces that I cut, and it cleaned the edges and the surface and doesn't appear* to hurt the leather, other than removing a little bit of the gloss on the surface.

*I have no clue about leather working (like I said I'm starting to learn), so I'm looking for input from people who know more and have either already tried this cleaner and know it's an issue or haven't tried it and can identify if it's damaging or safe.

I posted about this in another chat but figured a post specifically about it would get it more visibility.

[chuck123wapati]

I don't see the need for pumice as you said it damages the surface of the leather as for the soap itself I have no idea, I would try saddle soap first.

[ThomG]

The pumice is mixed into the cleaner already, it's not an additional step or process. The grit helps remove the char and smoke. I didn't say it damages it, I said it remove a little of the gloss and if anyone knows if it causing damage, has experience with it or a way to test if it's causing an issue is the point of the post. I'm not looking to guess, speculate, or "just do it the same old way it's always been done."

[chuck123wapati]

49 minutes ago, ThomG said:

The pumice is mixed into the cleaner already, it's not an additional step or process. The grit helps remove the char and smoke. I didn't say it damages it, I said it remove a little of the gloss and if anyone knows if it causing damage, has experience with it or a way to test if it's causing an issue is the point of the post. I'm not looking to guess, speculate, or "just do it the same old way it's always been done."

here's a tip from an old leather worker who does it the "same old way".. Buy a pumice stone and you can abrade, or in your words, "take the gloss off", the skin side of your leather so glue will adhere to it. 

pumice /pŭm′ĭs/

noun

1. A light, porous, glassy lava, used in solid form as an abrasive and in powdered form as a polish and an abrasive.

yea I know I have used the stuff, I've turned my share of wrenches. Pumice comes from volcanoes and is very aggressive on skin, leather is skin. The pumice will damage it. if you don't believe me go wash your car with it. Its not a guess its a fact google pumice then use some common sense and ask yourself if you think it will damage leather.

 

 

 

[fredk]

I know of the hand cleaner you write of, or at least a local version. It doesn't have pumice in it though but something else as grit. Although the grit can be felt on the hands its not serious enough to damage leather, unless you use a lot of it and really scrub it in.  

I've used the hand cleaner to clean the insides of mugs of tea stains. Its less rougher than a pot scrubber

[ThomG]

fredk - thank you for the input, considering it doesn't hurt skin, that was my guess after not seeing any issues, but wanted to check considering I don't see anyone using it.

 

chuck123wapati

That's funny you should mention it, I use a pumice stone on car clear coats to get rid of drips and runs. It' works very well because it doesn't conform to shape of the drip, which sand paper does. Soak it for about 10 minutes then use a lot of water, it does require quite a bit of elbow grease, but that's why it can be used to polish, as noted in your post. Many custom painters prefer to use what's basically a miniature wood plan instead because it's quicker and less work. I also use them on my hands and feet to remove dead skin, so while it does come from a volcano, it's not exactly like pouring lava on something. the gloss being removed is very different than roughing up the surface to create a physical tooth to get the glue to penetrate. I have no doubt if i just scrub with a rock on leather it would do damage, but that's not remotely what I've asked about.

[chuck123wapati]

55 minutes ago, ThomG said:

fredk - thank you for the input, considering it doesn't hurt skin, that was my guess after not seeing any issues, but wanted to check considering I don't see anyone using it.

 

chuck123wapati

That's funny you should mention it, I use a pumice stone on car clear coats to get rid of drips and runs. It' works very well because it doesn't conform to shape of the drip, which sand paper does. Soak it for about 10 minutes then use a lot of water, it does require quite a bit of elbow grease, but that's why it can be used to polish, as noted in your post. Many custom painters prefer to use what's basically a miniature wood plan instead because it's quicker and less work. I also use them on my hands and feet to remove dead skin, so while it does come from a volcano, it's not exactly like pouring lava on something. the gloss being removed is very different than roughing up the surface to create a physical tooth to get the glue to penetrate. I have no doubt if i just scrub with a rock on leather it would do damage, but that's not remotely what I've asked about.

good luck my friend.

[chuck123wapati]

pumice on leather one swipe across the leather. first pic with no stain applied, second with stain applied. yes it damaged it. so much for experiments leather and car paint must not be the same. you use it on your feet because it takes off dead skin its an abrasive.

[chuck123wapati]

4 hours ago, ThomG said:

I'm just starting to learn about leather working

if your leather is dull like the area i scratched and stained and not glossy then yes you have damaged the leather. 

[Mablung]

@ThomG To state Chuck's point another way, the pumice takes off part of the surface.  The surface is slightly glossy because the very, very top layer is glossy.  Thus, removing the gloss = removing part of the top layer—thereby damaging the leather.

Unless, of course, you desire to take off the top.  Then you have achieved your end, but if you want the leather to stay intact, then you've damaged it.

[ThomG]

Here is a sample, i cut both circles out of the material shown and cleaned one with the cleaner I'm talking about and not the other.

[chuck123wapati]

Pumice has a property whereas its softer than some things but harder than others so you can polish paint because its harder than pumice but take off you skin clear to the meat with it because its harder than skin or in this case leather. Realize Fred stated his cleaner didn't have pumice in it so his reasoning may not be spot on. Can you use it That's up to you no ne here is going to stop you or argue the point. As a leather worker intent on helping folks and giving good information I would not recommend it. 

3 minutes ago, ThomG said:

Here is a sample, i cut both circles out of the material shown and cleaned one with the cleaner I'm talking about and not the other.

ok when you stain them do they look the same? 

[ThomG]

I haven't tried staining yet, what application method would show the difference best, i would think a rag or brush would show application marks, an airbrush doesn't produce texture, that or maybe dunking them?

[chuck123wapati]

1 minute ago, ThomG said:

I haven't tried staining yet, what application method would show the difference best, i would think a rag or brush would show application marks, an airbrush doesn't produce texture, that or maybe dunking them?

stain and finish both pieces as you intend to do with your projects if there are no noticeable differences then you should be good to go. leather should have a natural sheen to it and different sealers will enhance that each in it own way. 

[dikman]

Doesn't matter which method you use to apply it, if the leather is damaged/marked the stain will show it.

[Burkhardt]

To me the top one's darker thinking it changed the surface. If you ever have the grain side on a surface not completely smooth  and stain or antique after it will show every little scratch.  Best way to find out is stain each one of them.

[ThomG]

I probably should have mentioned the bottom circle is the one I cleaned. I'll try staining both and the scrap today with a dobber.

[ThomG]

here are the same samples dyed with alcohol based buckeye color dye applied with a dobber.

[Bert03241]

I use a soft scotch pad that on the back of some sponges and water. Does a good job

Sometimes I do nothing as personally I think the charred edges give the work some character 

[ThomG]

Here is a before and after cleaning. it's still wet in the bottom picture that's why the color is so different.

[Mablung]

40 minutes ago, ThomG said:

Here is a before and after cleaning. it's still wet in the bottom picture that's why the color is so different.

Is that when cleaning with the pumice hand cleaner? I assume so but wanted to make sure I hadn't missed a change in tack in regard to cleaning.  If so, that looks pretty good, as long as one doesn't mind any later finish being a bit matted due to the surface scratches.

[ThomG]

Yes that's using the hand cleaner with pumice, and i actually scrubbed this with a fingernail brush to rrally see if it would mess it up, its the sample piece. I plan to dye and spray coat resoline when I'm done.

[RockyAussie]

What I found works best for me is to give the leather a couple of light coats of sealer before I do the engraving or cutting. This stops any charcoal rubbing showing up and I then either use a high blast of air to remove some or sometimes I just hold it under the tap

and scrub with a toothbrush. Once dry I generally give it another coat to seal the engraved part.

[KYCat]

6 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

What I found works best for me is to give the leather a couple of light coats of sealer before I do the engraving or cutting. This stops any charcoal rubbing showing up and I then either use a high blast of air to remove some or sometimes I just hold it under the tap

and scrub with a toothbrush. Once dry I generally give it another coat to seal the engraved part.

Agree... if you 'preseal' before engraving you can also use a moist Magic Eraser. The char won't stick to the front of the piece and you can use it to clean the edges. I have also done as Brian mentioned just scrubbing very gently under running water with a soft toothbrush. I like the 'preseal' option as you don't have to wait for the leather to dry before proceeding. 

Also, be sure to use an alcohol/oil based dye if you use the running water method (don't ask how I found that out! :))

 

[Bert03241]

15 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

What I found works best for me is to give the leather a couple of light coats of sealer before I do the engraving or cutting. This stops any charcoal rubbing showing up and I then either use a high blast of air to remove some or sometimes I just hold it under the tap

and scrub with a toothbrush. Once dry I generally give it another coat to seal the engraved part.

yes this works to as I've stated before im sure