Old tools with paint - what do I do?

[SUP]

I found some old tools recently. Nice ones. They all have what appears to be black paint on the metal, except for the actual working area.

I was thinking of replacing that paint, since it has become a little patchy. I will need to strip off all the old paint first, isn't it?

What do I use to do that? And after that, what paint do I use? 

Is it a good idea to replace the paint or is it better to strip off all the old paint and use a good metal wax? I would love some advice.

[fredk]

Its possibly a black lacquer and normal paint stripper wont work on it. You could try a soaking in lacquer (cellulose) thinners, otherwise its a case of sanding it off with a very rough grade of grit. When replacing it I would use Hammerite Paint. As Hammerite is fairly thick you could just paint it over the old paint and the patches wont show. Hammerite comes in many colours so you can also choose one you like

Edited May 3, 2024 by fredk

[TonyV]

I wouldn't do anything about the paint.  It's part of the natural "patina" of an old tool that has been well used.  And, if, any of these tools happen to be collectible, it may ruin the value.

OTH, they're yours, do as you wish.  fredk has a good answer.  Look at lacquer thinner first before moving on to anything stronger.  Repainting might not be worth the expense and work.  Might be better off keeping them in the white and use a light oil or wax to prevent rust.

[SUP]

The brand on one appears to be  Mahlen, on another it seems to be  Koritsor or Koritson. The names are not very clear so just guessing a bit. The others are not clear at all. 

Cannot find much on them. Do any of you have an idea about these brands?

The paint will preserve better but until I get some, I will probably just use a blade wax and add them to the list of items to check twice a month. It is so humid here, sometimes the bare floor feels damp inside. I have dehumidifiers and monitors galore with the leathers and tools.

[DieselTech]

  On 5/3/2024 at 12:24 AM, SUP said:

I found some old tools recently. Nice ones. They all have what appears to be black paint on the metal, except for the actual working area.

I was thinking of replacing that paint, since it has become a little patchy. I will need to strip off all the old paint first, isn't it?

What do I use to do that? And after that, what paint do I use? 

Is it a good idea to replace the paint or is it better to strip off all the old paint and use a good metal wax? I would love some advice.

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Are you sure it's paint? It could be a hot bluing or possibly black parkerized. Some old tools I think were hot blued. Got any pics. 

Thanks. 

[bruce johnson]

It depends on what the tools are. Realistically unless they are museum or display pieces that need to look the part, removing the old paint and repainting has little to do with lessening value of leather tools. Other tools yes, but most leather tools are going back to work, not be on display or to traded between collectors.  It blows away some of my general tool collectors friends what I do that they could never think about with refurbishing. They would kill the value and I don't. 

I've pretty well tried it most processes and it's evolved - scotch brite, strippers of all varieties, abrasive wheels and papers, etc. Some of these old paints are hard a rock and just laugh at strippers and solvents while others dissolve like KoolAid. I never knew what was going to happen from piece to piece. Here is my process now. I have blast cabinet and blast them down to bare metal. That has been the great equalizer. Faster, gets into the pits, takes off rust as well as paint, and leaves a clean surface with minimal residue I can blow off and go straight to paint. No rinsing off a stripper or residue that resists paint. In the old days a local powder coating outfit blasted for me at an hourly rate. Once I set enough money away I bought a big compressor and blast cabinet. After blasting I smooth and polish every place that needs polished with several abrasives and compounds to the desired finish and then tape off the areas that don't need paint. A coat of primer and let it dry a day. Light coats of rattle can paint for color. I use ACE brand matte or gloss and Rustoleum hammer finishes mostly. I use light coats from a distance every 10-20 minutes until I get the coverage I want. Usually 2-3/maybe 4 coats. In the winter I've got a heated drying cabinet I hang them in. I let the paint cure for at 24 hours or more before handling.

Punches and things like that - I blast, polish, and sharpen. I stopped repainting punches a few years ago. I was offering it for $5 more and essentially nobody wanted it. 

I like powder coated finishes but that's an involved process with more equipment and time that just doesn't pencil out for me right now. 

[SUP]

Thank you @bruce johnson. These are cobbler's tools, so I will be able to use them only when using thick leather or I will need to get inventive. But i do plan to use them. 

@DieselTech Here is a pic of some of the tools. 

I just cleaned and dried them, then applied blade wax. The paint, as you can see, is patchy on all except one of them. I will probably be able to get some of it off. I do everything by hand, of course, so it will take a bit more time.  I doubt I will be able to get it all off though. I might need to do as @fredk suggested and use Hammerlite directly. Or maybe a spray  like @bruce johnson says - Ace or Rustoleum.

Does humidity affect any of this? The ambient humidity is really high here, right now at 65%.

 

 

 

[BlackDragon]

That looks like Japanning or Tool Black.

It's a protective lacquer coating against rust, mostly for tools.

Lacquer thinner should remove it but I would redo the blacking or use cold bluing to protect your tools.

[Tastech]

I was wondering what sort of tools your were talking about . So its heel and welt irons i see . The black on the metal is wax .  Easy to get off with thinners , paint stripper or white spirit .  But to by pass all that give them a once over with a wire wheel on a bench grinder .  I am a shoe maker and i collect shoe irons . I don't use them much but i just like them. I also like them to look nice and shiny . There are thousands of them in the universe with patina but that,s not my thing . Shiny is .  I have perfected my method to suit me . 

First put the iron end in a vice with not marking jaws and with a twisty pulling motion remove the iron from handle .

I put the irons in a solution of phosphoric acid about 10  parts water to 1 acid   . ( available from an cleaners wholesaler ) while the acid does its work .( about 2 hours ) strip the handles  The way i do this is with a stanley knife . The knife is held just of 90 Deg and pull the blade towards you . Sort of like peeling a potato . rotate sightly after each pass and everything comes off easy . I then lightly sand with 240 grit . Some of the original patina remains but that is ok . When the irons are ready take them out of the acid using gloves and wash with water and soap using a course scourer  . this will take the blackness off and prepare the surface for polishing . You will notice the irons oxidize very quickly  so you have to work them the same day . You can either wire wheel them and leave them at that or go the full mirror polish .  To mirror polish require some equipment and only very little skill . If you want to know how to do the mirror polish let me know .  Because that can be fiddly often just linish them  . I do the same to my cobbler hammer collection 

Keep in mind the irons are just that irons . They were heated over a spirit burner and used to melt wax into the heels and edges of shoes . They were never painted and never should be . To seal the surface i use Penetrol which i wipe on with a rag . It stops rust and dries clear .  On the handles i give them 2 coats of a satin clear coat .

[billybopp]

  On 5/3/2024 at 12:47 PM, SUP said:

Thank you @bruce johnson. These are cobbler's tools, so I will be able to use them only when using thick leather or I will need to get inventive. But i do plan to use them. 

@DieselTech Here is a pic of some of the tools. 

I just cleaned and dried them, then applied blade wax. The paint, as you can see, is patchy on all except one of them. I will probably be able to get some of it off. I do everything by hand, of course, so it will take a bit more time.  I doubt I will be able to get it all off though. I might need to do as @fredk suggested and use Hammerlite directly. Or maybe a spray  like @bruce johnson says - Ace or Rustoleum.

Does humidity affect any of this? The ambient humidity is really high here, right now at 65%.

 

 

 

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That may not be paint.  Those are used hot, so it may be a carbon buildup from heating over an open flame.

 

[Tastech]

I forgot to mention , I use acid to remove rust and any other crap that is on them . 

Below are some photos of what each step looks like . the first is a rusted hammer head . the second is the hammer head out of the acid and finished with a wire wheel on a bench grinder . The third is the hammer after it has been ground back , linished and mechanically polished . The grinding and polishing takes about 1.5 hours . Heel irons take about 20 mins 

Also a i found some picks of my last batch of irons i got . First one as i got them , second cleaned and linished irons and stripped and ready for painting handles . the finnished product are in my previous photos .

[stampingdelight]

  On 5/3/2024 at 1:58 PM, Tastech said:

I forgot to mention , I use acid to remove rust and any other crap that is on them . 

Below are some photos of what each step looks like . the first is a rusted hammer head . the second is the hammer head out of the acid and finished with a wire wheel on a bench grinder . The third is the hammer after it has been ground back , linished and mechanically polished . The grinding and polishing takes about 1.5 hours . Heel irons take about 20 mins 

Also a i found some picks of my last batch of irons i got . First one as i got them , second cleaned and linished irons and stripped and ready for painting handles . the finnished product are in my previous photos .

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how cool to be able to clean up tools so well, what kind of acid 

[Tastech]

@ stampingdelight .Its called phosphoric acid. I noticed that most hardware store rust converters contain a high percentage of phosphoric acid. I had some laying around that i used for cleaning tile grout after tiling my bathroom and thought what can it hurt trying . It worked really well so now its all i use . Its much cheaper than rust converter . About $40 a gallon in Australia . I get it from a cleaning supplies wholesaler around the corner . They supply cleaning chemicals and product to commercial cleaners and detergents and stuff like that to restaurants . I used to be a stainless steel fabricator and noticed that phosphoric acid was in some of the weld cleaners i used . Its is also contained in stainless steel passivators  which removes any iron on a freshly polished piece of stainless so it doesn't rust in a marine environment . One very important thing to be aware of is . Always wear gloves , simple nitrile gloves work fine  and always protect your eyes . Phosphoric acid can absorb into your skin where it accumulates in your bones and makes them brittle . Like osteoporosis on steroids. So the safety sheets say . Use with caution .   

[SUP]

@Tastech I do not have any of those tools or space to work with acids and other chemicals.  I need to do everything by hand, at home. Leatherwork is a new hobby for me.

So it will have to be things like spirit and  steel wool  to get them clean. I should be able to separate the handles - f not I can request my friendly neighborhood cutler. I will probably have to go the primer, paint path since I do not plan to make shoes but I will get inventive.

Old tools, especially leather ones,  are unfortunately  difficult to resist. Then caring for them is another issue altogether. But I think you understand where I'm coming from, since you apparently also have a collection that you rarely use, in spite of being a shoe maker.

Your tools look lovely, by the way.

Edited May 3, 2024 by SUP

[stampingdelight]

  On 5/3/2024 at 2:38 PM, Tastech said:

@ tastech

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thanks 

[Tastech]

@ Sup , I do what i do because i have the means to do and i enjoy the process and i like the finished product. If you don't have the tools and equipment to do it them just clean them up and oil the steel so they don't deteriorate  and just admire them for their former past glory and place in the history of shoe making . Understand someone has spent countless hours with those tools in their hand and i believe that imparts a part of their soul in them . Don't paint the irons .

Do a search on ebay for antique cobblers tools and you will see a lot  come up. Some in very crappy condition and many in my view over priced . But they are collectible and sought after but no one really uses them any more . I have once to make a pair of shoes for myself using completely traditional methods and i enjoyed it . But with no reference on how to use them properly i am sure i got a lot of things wrong . But i just love old cobblers tools and try to save them when i can .  The walls in my shop are full of old tools that i have collected and don't use but i just love having them around watching over me like  angels . My customers are fascinated with them  . I have only every had one guy come in who knew what everything was and its purpose . He was a 90 year old Hungarian guy . He told that he felt like he was amongst old friends when he saw them  and spent about 2 hours studying every tool . I really get where he was coming from because i feel the same . 

Enjoy your tolls SUP and when you are ready pass them on to someone who is worthy .

[SUP]

@Tastech you describe very eloquently how I feel about old tools, and not just old tools, old furniture, old well-used recipe books, and so many other things, lovingly made or used. I  will do as you suggest with these tools. I will clean them, wax them (I make a blade wax which keeps my blades free of rust in the high humidity that I live in, so evidently effective) and admire them (which I do anyway).  I got these for a song. I do not pay eBay prices, they are ridiculous except for rare instances. My tools will stay with me my entire life. After that, yes, to someone who will love and care for them.

It must have been wonderful talking to the Hungarian gentleman. All that knowledge! I hope you picked up a lot of information from him.                   

[fredk]

Try letting them soak in lemon juice for a few hours

[stampingdelight]

@fredk have to keep in mind to try 

[SUP]

@fredk Yep. I'll do that. But first, need to get them out of the wooden handles.

[fredk]

Leave the wood handles on , the lemon juice wont harm the wood and might loosen any dirt on them

[SUP]

Oh. Okay. Will do that.  Thank you @fredk

Edited May 3, 2024 by SUP

[Tastech]

@SUP . Try getting the handles off the way i described . Iron in a vice  and pull while jiggling the handle . The come off surprisingly easy . This is because over the years the have been heated and cooled and the only thing holding them in is old dried wax and some charcoal soot . As FredK said lemon juice will work slowly ,so will vinegar with a table spoon of baking soda . Even coca cola which contains phosphoric acid . Or get some rust converter from the hardware or auto shop and soak them in that . You don't need to buy a big bottle and you will find a use for what you don't use .  While you are there grab  some small wire brushes . they come in a 3 pack of nylon , stainless steel and brass for about 2-3 dollars .

 I often get asked where do i find these tools. My reply is " i don't find them .they find me " .  I am sure everyone on this forum experienced this .  I can be out looking to buy a cake and come back with some obscure tool that i found in a place that was totally unexpected.  Before Xmas i was in a country town looking to buy some local honey and handmade soap for my wife . I came home with a Vihl Pederson 308 sole stitcher . for $100 , they go for 2 grand.  Some times customers just drop off random things to me because their grandfather was a cobbler and they have had this tool in their shed for 50 years and had no idea what it was but want to give it a good home . In fact a random customer came into the shop yesterday and asked would i be interested in 2 singer industrial sewing machines . Free to a good home . He needs the space in his shed . Yeah why not .  Despite what media tries to make you think .The world is a fascinating place . People can be extraordinarily kind  and willing to share their time and knowledge to complete strangers for no reward . You have to be in the state on mind to give and to receive. That's what i love about this forum . Ask a question or need some help ,some one is willing to do so .   when you are finished doing what you are going to do , Post the photo of the finished product so we can all enjoy the fruits of your labour.

[SUP]

Thank you @Tastech. I do have Evaporust and lots of lemon juice. and either will work, isn't it?. I will get the wire brushes. Hopefully the tools will get to some kind of clean state. Not shiny but clean at any rate. Once done, I will put up the pics. 

 I have a dozen half-finished projects that I have promised to post. I do them in a round robin. Keeps things interesting.

It's nice, how you pick up things. I have not experienced that as yet. What I do notice and love however,  is how everyone who hears about my working with leather gets the same look as children get when they hear about chocolate. Everyone loves leather apparently.

People are really nice in this forum. I absolutely agree. It's a pleasure reading the threads here sometimes, where you see people going out of their way to provide good information and  help. 

[bruce johnson]

Just a tip with the Evaporust. If you want to save time you can heat it a bit and and reduce a 24 hour soak into about 10 minutes. It is a temperature dependent process. I got this tip from a phone call to the shop of one of their endorsers several years ago. The temperature is "cool enough you can stick your finger in but too hot to leave it there". Kind of a wisp of steam coming off but no bubbles. I put the parts in an aluminum pan with enough Evaporust to cover and turn the burner on. After the parts are clean, filter the Evaporust back into the jug and rinse the parts with water. Then I use a brass wheel for stamps or steel wheel for other parts to knock off the carbon and residue left behind and start the polishing process.