Extremely Bad First Experience W/ Supplier

[Bar C Leather]

I have recently had an EXTREMELY bad experience with a leather supplier. I was very excited to place my first order and after I did, there were nothing but nightmares.

I really feel like I was treated poorly but I kept my composure... stayed very polite and courteous until about my 15th phone call to them to get things put right. Been going on since November and I won't know until a few days from now if they really did refund my money.

I don't want anyone else to have this experience but I'm not one to just run around spreading rumors either. What information is fair to share on the forum?? What do you think?

[Ferg]

I have recently had an EXTREMELY bad experience with a leather supplier. I was very excited to place my first order and after I did, there were nothing but nightmares.

I really feel like I was treated poorly but I kept my composure... stayed very polite and courteous until about my 15th phone call to them to get things put right. Been going on since November and I won't know until a few days from now if they really did refund my money.

I don't want anyone else to have this experience but I'm not one to just run around spreading rumors either. What information is fair to share on the forum?? What do you think?

Personally, I think you should tell it like it is

ferg

[rickeyfro]

I agree with Ferg, if someone cares about what the customers think they should act like it. No need to hold back the truth

[Spinner]

I agree. Just tell your side like it is and be truthful about the experience.

I know if one of my products or service left that bad of a taste in someone's mouth I'd want to know about it so it could be fixed straightaway.

Word of mouth is the best form of advertisement, but it can also cut both ways.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Spinner

[TwinOaks]

Just stick to the truth. Don't make accusations or write anything that isn't true. Tell the good with the bad and give an honest review. If you want to share any personal opinions or thoughts, just be sure to preface it with "I think....." or "I feel....." to avoid any issues of LIBEL (printing/publishing anything that isn't true and could cause 'damages').

[Pounder]

I have recently had an EXTREMELY bad experience with a leather supplier. I was very excited to place my first order and after I did, there were nothing but nightmares.

I really feel like I was treated poorly but I kept my composure... stayed very polite and courteous until about my 15th phone call to them to get things put right. Been going on since November and I won't know until a few days from now if they really did refund my money.

I don't want anyone else to have this experience but I'm not one to just run around spreading rumors either. What information is fair to share on the forum?? What do you think?

As everyone else has stated, be honest and forthright but above ll else tell it as it may save someone else a future problem, helping others is what this site is about.

[CitizenKate]

You can share your experiences, and express your opinions, positive or negative, as long as you tell the truth. I would go a bit further to suggest avoiding posting things you heard second or third hand, and don't know for a fact is true.

I will also mention that we tend to frown upon people who call out a supplier publicly without first having attempted to contact the supplier directly and resolve the issue privately. In your case, you have stated that you have contacted them numerous times. I just am pointing this out to anyone who considers posting a supplier review.

Aside from that, we consider honest consumer reviews of suppliers and products as vital information to our members.

Kate

[Bar C Leather]

The supplier that I had so much trouble with is Siegel of California

On November 17th I placed an online order for some work chap sides and I requested a color from their color swatches. The color swatches were in color groups and numbered. I chose green palette color #4. Normally I wouldn't make a special color request like that online but it was an 'online only' special. The package took longer than I expected to get here but I let that go because I figure that those things sometimes happen. When I got the package it was not even close to the shad of green that I requested. Their website states that they accept returns for any reason and will even pay return shipping. When I called to return it the lady I spoke with was not very friendly... rather the opposite; but I wrote that off to the lady having a bad day. She told me the swatches were wrong, that the website hadn't been updated and that the boss had not written my special color request on the order anyway. She told me she was arranging the return so I waited a few days thinking that they were sending the carrier to pick it up. Around 4 days and no pick up. I called back and they explained that they were sending a tag, not a pick up. So, I waited about another week and still no tag. I called back ...oops, they informed me that they never mailed the tag and promised to get it to me right away. Finally got the tag sometime around Dec 13th or 14th and shipped the box on Dec. 15th from our local pack-n-ship. I lost count (really should have been keeping notes at this point) of the calls I made but called several times to find out if they had received the box. The first time they said they had not received it yet and I got worried as it was now after Christmas. I gave it a few days and called back. I was told they would look into it that there were returns in the warehouse that needed to be checked in, they would call me to let me know. I did not receive a call back. I called back when I hadn't heard from them and was told they would track the package. In January I finally get to talk to someone who actually followed through on tracking the package to find they had received it but that it was still awaiting the 'boss' to approve the return. Again I called back and was told the boss would be notified again that I was awaiting my refund. No call back. I called again to find out that the 'boss' claims I have more than one account and he needs to look into it..delay...delay... no calls back, no respect. At this point it was a daily call ... the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Thursday Feb 10th I called and asked to speak to Steve ... aka the boss. I was told he'd be in the office in an hour. I set my timer and called in exactly an hour. He was on the phone and I chose to hold. When the line picked up it was the clerk again and said he left!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????

At this point I lost my marbles. I kindly let the lady know that I had family and friends in California and if Steve needed to see someone face to face to have a conversation, that I could send someone down there, no problem. I also told her that I was considering sharing this incident with all of my colleagues. The lady assured me he was planning on calling me Friday morning. Friday afternoon; STILL NO CALL. I called again and she told me that he had refunded my money and I informed her that I was extremely disappointed and that if it wasn't already crystal clear, I would NEVER do business with them again.

I am a patient and forgiving person and my husband claims I let people walk all over me, but even I have to draw the line. My biggest disappointment was that nobody .. not once, not one person EVER called me. All calls were from me to them and although the lady I dealt with from January on was kind to me, it took numerous daily calls to get results. I feel that if mine was a crazy case that just went all to heck wrong, I should have been given a courtesy call from Steve. Unfortunately the feeling I get is that the business just isn't organized and I don't get the feeling that the customer comes first. I feel that I should not have been avoided and that no matter what the case, I should have been given respect.

Now, if anyone is still awake... you know what happened!!

[Ferg]

The supplier that I had so much trouble with is Siegel of California

On November 17th I placed an online order for some work chap sides and I requested a color from their color swatches. The color swatches were in color groups and numbered. I chose green palette color #4. Normally I wouldn't make a special color request like that online but it was an 'online only' special. The package took longer than I expected to get here but I let that go because I figure that those things sometimes happen. When I got the package it was not even close to the shad of green that I requested. Their website states that they accept returns for any reason and will even pay return shipping. When I called to return it the lady I spoke with was not very friendly... rather the opposite; but I wrote that off to the lady having a bad day. She told me the swatches were wrong, that the website hadn't been updated and that the boss had not written my special color request on the order anyway. She told me she was arranging the return so I waited a few days thinking that they were sending the carrier to pick it up. Around 4 days and no pick up. I called back and they explained that they were sending a tag, not a pick up. So, I waited about another week and still no tag. I called back ...oops, they informed me that they never mailed the tag and promised to get it to me right away. Finally got the tag sometime around Dec 13th or 14th and shipped the box on Dec. 15th from our local pack-n-ship. I lost count (really should have been keeping notes at this point) of the calls I made but called several times to find out if they had received the box. The first time they said they had not received it yet and I got worried as it was now after Christmas. I gave it a few days and called back. I was told they would look into it that there were returns in the warehouse that needed to be checked in, they would call me to let me know. I did not receive a call back. I called back when I hadn't heard from them and was told they would track the package. In January I finally get to talk to someone who actually followed through on tracking the package to find they had received it but that it was still awaiting the 'boss' to approve the return. Again I called back and was told the boss would be notified again that I was awaiting my refund. No call back. I called again to find out that the 'boss' claims I have more than one account and he needs to look into it..delay...delay... no calls back, no respect. At this point it was a daily call ... the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Thursday Feb 10th I called and asked to speak to Steve ... aka the boss. I was told he'd be in the office in an hour. I set my timer and called in exactly an hour. He was on the phone and I chose to hold. When the line picked up it was the clerk again and said he left!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????

At this point I lost my marbles. I kindly let the lady know that I had family and friends in California and if Steve needed to see someone face to face to have a conversation, that I could send someone down there, no problem. I also told her that I was considering sharing this incident with all of my colleagues. The lady assured me he was planning on calling me Friday morning. Friday afternoon; STILL NO CALL. I called again and she told me that he had refunded my money and I informed her that I was extremely disappointed and that if it wasn't already crystal clear, I would NEVER do business with them again.

I am a patient and forgiving person and my husband claims I let people walk all over me, but even I have to draw the line. My biggest disappointment was that nobody .. not once, not one person EVER called me. All calls were from me to them and although the lady I dealt with from January on was kind to me, it took numerous daily calls to get results. I feel that if mine was a crazy case that just went all to heck wrong, I should have been given a courtesy call from Steve. Unfortunately the feeling I get is that the business just isn't organized and I don't get the feeling that the customer comes first. I feel that I should not have been avoided and that no matter what the case, I should have been given respect.

Now, if anyone is still awake... you know what happened!!

There are many folks that share your frustrations. I have to say also that there are some that have had very little to no hassle with them. The song and dance is ,"We couldn't find your e-mail."

ferg

[TwinOaks]

I think that qualifies as straight forward, sharing your experiences and what you were told through various communications. Thank you for sharing that. Hopefully, that post will get back to the boss at Siegel of Ca., and some actions will be taken to insure that it doesn't happen to anyone else.

[dirtclod]

I'm sorry you have had a problem. I have bought from them for years and never have had a problem.

[StevenSiegel]

Hi,

This is Steven Siegel.

Your refund was issued on Thursday according to our records.

Please accept my apology. Your refund should have been issued earlier. You are absolutely correct and should have had an earlier resolution.

On Thursday, I had an experience with a vendor that I had been trying to reach for weeks. I received an email on Wed to call the vendor on Thursday. I made 6 calls to the vendor with no success. When I sent the vendor an email to tell them that I had been trying to reach them and could not, I was called a liar and delusional. I sent them a copy of my telephone records to show the 6 calls made.

I do care about my customers. That is the reason that we offer free return freight. But, when we overpromise and underdeliver, it is not good for anyone.

Again, I do apologize for the delay that you incurred.

Regards,

Steven Siegel

[Johanna]

Subject: this just isn't working out for us... the customer that complained was not truthful....

please pull ALL of our ads IMMEDIATELY

I handled all parts of this issue and the customer was not truthful

This forum does not work for us.

I am sorry, but I need to let it go.

As you can tell, I have been up the entire night because it bothers me so much that you published a complaint about our company which was not truthful.

I still have ½ a month left on the advertising. If you have a policy to refund unused advertising space, I would like a refund for the remainder of the month,

Regards,

Steven Siegel

[tg lucas]

Oh wow, that is really unfortunate on so many levels. I really am conflicted on so many aspects of this post and others like it. First, it is a loss of advertising revenue for the website and I have personally come to see it as a real resource and hate to see it suffer in any way. I have chosen to become a subscriber to help continue it and help offset any loss in income and I hope others may see it as motivation to so as well. One of the reasons I view it a such a great resource is because of it's candor and honesty when it comes to all things leather, good and bad. The admin's do a great job of keeping things focused and I have even been edited when my focus of a post was a little off subject, funny but off focus.

The website's main responsibilities are to the leather artists and craftsmen(persons) and not to suppliers. Suppliers that do not fulfill or meet their client/customers needs should expect negative feedback and this website should never been held as leverage against its members versus it's advertisers. To do so is to make this website an advertising/marketing outlet of the advertisers and limits it's ability to achieve it's primary mission, which is to serve the leathercrafters of the world with relative, honest and useful information.

Again, it is my belief that good customer service is vital to any business. One lapse, one off day or attitude of this can wait until tomorrow can have very negative results. I am very sure that this company has had many years of very happy customers but it only takes a few poor customer service errors to destroy a company's image. As harsh as it may seem, "perception is reality" when it comes to a company's reputation. This all could have been made right by the owner getting on the phone to the client, sending a personal email, doing something positive and proactive instead of posting to the forum for all of us to see his customer service failure personally. I still am puzzled by the off subject paragraph in the middle of his response to the customer about his own supplier issues, it is not relevant. If anything it should have made him more closely appreciate what his own customer was going thru and more dedicated to her satisfaction.

If you were up all night worrying about what was being said about your company, it is my belief you should have been trying to find a way to correct the problem and showing your potential customers how dedicated your are to their satisfaction and not their flippant dismissal. I would also certainly would not be holding the website at fault for publishing something you do not agree with and eliminating a potential source of sales for your company, that kind of knee-jerk reaction is called "biting the hand that feeds you"

Edited February 13, 2011 by tg lucas

[rawhide1]

Mr. Siegel

While I have not ordered from you in the past I will in the future if the need arises. And I will let my own personal experience with your company be the deciding factor if I'm a repeat customer. I know when I read these post that I'm probably not getting all the facts. As it's humane nature to skew the facts in ones favor. I also feel if a member wants to state their experience good or bad they should. But folks need to keep a open mind while reading them. While it is certainly your right to advertise as you see fit I wish you would reconsider.

Mike

[tg lucas]

(in my best Elvis voice) why, umm, thank you, thank you very much....

and Ferg.... do you you piss off everyone? lol well I for one think you are great, you crusty old pot-stirrer!

[Bar C Leather]

I don't feel that I posted anything that could have been read as untruthful or libel. I laid out the facts. I'm pretty easy to please and this fire could have been smoldered by a phone call, an email or anything. I was somewhat happy to see the apology, until I saw that Steven then was pulling his advertising here. My apologies to the site for that but I made sure before hand that the other members wanted to know and that I wouldn't be frowned upon for sharing.

I know as well as anyone that sometimes things just go wrong. All I wanted was a little personal attention and a personal apology, not one that was simply for public damage control. I only shared because if there was a supplier out there that had such terrible customer service, I would know to enter business with caution.

If it wasn't clear in my first post, I did receive my refund finally.

Steve, if you feel any of this is not the full truth than that would be between you and your staff, because I never did get to speak with you or hear from you in any way. I can prove via phone records that nobody ever contacted me and if I had to, I could get the times and dates of all those phone calls I made. As I said before, I'm pretty easy to please and a genuine, heartfelt apology would have been an easy fix. I was as nice as I could possibly be each call I made until the call last Thursday when I had reached my limit and even then there was no yelling or cursing or negativity... just straightforward about my frustration.

Several times I considered calling or writing a letter to let Steve know what was happening because if it were my company, I'd surely want to know. That was until I was waiting on hold to speak to him and he 'LEFT' without answering my call. It was then my opinion that he did not care.

It is now clear that I'm not the only one who had customer service problems. My prayers are with you Steve that you can find a way to fix your problems. Good luck to you.

[Ferg]

(in my best Elvis voice) why, umm, thank you, thank you very much....

and Ferg.... do you you piss off everyone? lol well I for one think you are great, you crusty old pot-stirrer!

Hi TG,

I suppose I do piss off a lot of folks. I am opinionated and have never said I wasn't. I have taught all my kids and grandkids that you speak what you believe to be the truth ALWAYS!

I started this debacle and think I should end it with this,

If you have grown to love this forum, including the ADMINs, as much as I do..... send whatever you can afford to the folks running this fine forum so we can offset the loss of AD revenue, they will have my contribution

as soon as I finish this.

One more thing. I also tell my kids and associates, "Don't ask my opinion on something unless you are prepared for the answer."

ferg

[StevenSiegel]

HI

I find it particularly disappointing that Leatherworker.net (through Johanna) has turned this into a public issue. She has chosen to not disclose to y'all that the request to edit the previous posts was originally HER idea, not mine.

Well I am sure there are some of you who have made up your minds and some of you who have not yet formed an opinion.

I am sure that most of you expect people to do what they say they are going to do. I do also.

I have email trails of promises from Johanna which were not kept.. There are a plethora of unkept promises. This is a vendor issue.

I joined this board to exchange information. I have donated 100's of thousands of dollars of leather over the years to so many people. So maybe some of those people are on this board. However, this is consuming too much of my time, which does affect customer service.

Y'all take care.

Steven Siegel

[Johanna]

Bar C, Please don't fret about this post. You followed all the rules, and scratched the proverbial "tip of the iceberg". There is a lot more to this saga than just this post, but I don't want to hang the man's dirty laundry up for everyone to see. He knows where the problem in his business is, and it will take satisfying one-customer-at-a-time to regain his good reputation in the leather business. Yes, losing a sponsor hurts, but we would not have been able to accept Siegel's advertising anyway, not with all the customer service complaints we've receieved.

Johanna

PS Thanks FERG!

[jeeperaz]

Yes, losing a sponsor hurts, but we would not have been able to accept Siegel's advertising anyway, not with all the customer service complaints we've receieved.

Johanna

I've been meaning to donate to this site. After reading this thread, I'll be doing it soon after finishing this post.

Leatherworker.net for me is a tremendous resource. I will continue to click on those banner ads and make purchases through the advertisers here (waterhouse is current favorite).

Thanks Johanna for this place!

[abn]

Right after reading this post, I made my annual donation. I much prefer to have members of LW.net tell it like it is, and I'm certainly willing to support this site with my hard-earned dollars to make sure it remains that way.

[Spence]

A company is only as good as the morale of it's employees.

The morale of it's employees is only as good as the employer allows it to be.

It is a shame, and all too common, that ancestors almost literally work

themselves into the grave to provide for their families. They train and mentor

their offspring to take over the business and over a couple of generations, along

comes a progeny that almost sinks the ship.

And blames others!!!

I only hope it can righted before it's too late.

Admins, regardless of the "backroom goings on," you're on a roll!! Keep up the

great work.

[wildrose]

Thank you Bar C for sharing. I always share both good and bad experiences with suppliers. As everyone encouraged you, stick to the facts of your experience and that's what matters most. (which is exactly what you did)

It's always seemed to me that Steve himself tries to be helpful, but one person can't do everything right. I thought his apology was well intentioned, though the post to Johanna showed a different side.

[bkingery]

I have always been very open about how I feel about this site and its Admin. I know I am not likely the only one here that uses this site on a daily basis for evrything from general entertainment to very specific and often very precise info. All info is good info whether you choose to use it or not. Bar C I for one am very glad that you posted what you did and you should not feel bad in the least. Maybe Steven has had a bad year and he just needs time to get his stuff together but there are MANY of us that have defended him and I am sure hundreds if not thousands of people have gone to him for "anything leather". I hope he realizes just because of his advertising on this site. Maybe he doesn't need all of us little people and that is his perogitive,. I find it very sad that he chose to flame out Johanna especially after she has been one of his greatest defenders in the past. I know this will all work out for us as a community and am glad to see that there are so many contributing.

Peace

Bryan