copyright infringement?

[Northmount]

45 minutes ago, roo4u said:

here is a situation i recently came across regarding copyrights.  i am a braider and surf the internet once in a while to look at other braiders work...not to copy but just as an interest, never know when you might come across some interesting new knot or braid to learn.  i came across a site selling braided goods.  the braider states on his website that all his works are covered under copyright law but also states he learned to braid from same book i learned from.  none of his designs are original as far as the braiding goes so how can he claim copyright on something that has been done for thousands of years?  it boggles the mind that someone would even try that.

His works, photos he has posted, can be copyrighted.  How he braids, unless he can prove it is totally new, can not be copyrighted.  Totally new type of braiding could be patented.

If he makes an instruction manual, he could copyright it.

Tom

[roo4u]

well his braiding is not original nor are his color combos.  some of his products are original just because he has some custom metal items he adds to the braiding.  the statement about copyright on his website made is seem as if all of the items he braided were his original designs and therefore protected by copyright law.  this is of course impossible for the most part just because of how long braiding has been around.  i do see that he has a new design to his website and has removed the bit about copyright.  

[Sledzep01]

On 9/28/2017 at 6:00 AM, roo4u said:

 the statement about copyright on his website made is seem as if all of the items he braided were his original designs and therefore protected by copyright law.  this is of course impossible for the most part just because of how long braiding has been around.  

I see statements like this all the time.

Many work as intended... someone comes along thinking they would like to do this and gets discouraged by the statement. thereby creating 1 less competitor on Etsy or whatever...

I remember taking a class on marketing a Loooooong time ago and the key thing I remember was that the teacher would take the sunday ads and spread them on the floor, go make coffee, walk back in and see what caught his eye.

He would then examine it for whether he could use the design elements in an ad campaign he was involved in.

Then he copied the ??? Integrity? thought? or whatever of the add and ran it till he received a cease and desist from the company.

 Never sure he was truly over the line, he knew he could not fight the large companies sohe stopped or changed...

Point is scare tactics are always used

and copying is always done.

By that time he got good exposure for very little cost (since he copied)

Stay on the right side of YOUR heart an morals and you should be OK. Otherwise do the dance and take your chance

 

Sled

[mikesc]

Because you see someone else copy another person's work or design, or use it, post it etc without the original creator's written permission, does not make it ethical to do so ( it is highly unethical )..nor does it make it legal ( it is illegal ) the laws relating to / governing copyrights were agreed a long time ago in legislation signed by many countries ( including the USA ) "The Berne Convention"..they apply to all citizens and companies etc in each signatory country.

In a simple form the laws say.."all creative works are automatically copyright, they do not need to say so , they may not be reproduced, nor may derivatives be made from them, without the written permission of the original creator of the work".

You would take a car that did not belong to you just because you saw someone take the one which did not belong to them that was parked in front of it..You wouldn't claim a melody or a song ( lot of people get sued over songs and melodies and music ) or a piece of writing was yours , if it was based on something done by someone else..and you wouldn't post a picture from the NYT or post a big chunk of an an article from them without asking them for their permission, ( and getting it, in writing ) ..so , don't do it it the smaller guy / girl..otherwise it is saying that you know that ripping off ( stealing ) other peoples ideas is wrong, but is OK if you think that you can get away with it..Like stealing candy from a little kid, but only as long as their dad or mom isn't there to stop you..

 

Giving "attribution"..is not a get out..you have to have the original creator's written permission to use it first..You can't take a car or candy and say "it's OK..I got it from them "..." I'm only borrowing it, I'll give them credit for where I took it from, I'll maybe even give it back later, they'll love the exposure"..They won't love the "exposure"..that is like raping someone and saying that "they are so cute, here is their address, they'd love for you to visit and maybe do the same to them".

 

It is easy to understand , if you are honest..

Edited January 7, 2018 by mikesc

[roo4u]

it is fear of punishment that keeps most people honest.  but i believe it is unethical to create something like a braided item and know that you are copying things you learned from someone else and then tell the rest of the world if you copy me i will sue you.  the number of people in the world with integrity seems to be shrinking quickly.  very sad

 

tracy

[LeatherNewbie76]

my question on copy right aand reference to the " only so many ways to make a boat" i make dog collars as part of my line.

upon searching the web for collar parts I.E D rings, buckles etc. i came a across a website with this design which is a basic design that everyone uses. HOWEVER. their copyright claim states that all products and designs are theirs. how can they say that and not get in trouble?

[mlapaglia]

Anyone can claim anything they want on a website. Those dog collars would be more of a patent iss and not a copyright thing. It’s to generic an object to be patented any more. A design on the collar could be a copyright but not the basic collar. Consider the Kleenex. They copyrighted the name and the patterns but not the facial tissue it self. 

[Northmount]

3 hours ago, mlapaglia said:

Consider the Kleenex. They copyrighted the name

Kleenex is a registered trademark rather than a copyright.  There are many registered trademarks that have fallen into everyday usage.  Xerox is another common one.

5 hours ago, LeatherNewbie76 said:

their copyright claim states that all products and designs are theirs

Photos and web page may be copyrighted.  So you can't legally publish their photos or pages.

They may also make a pattern and copyright it.  So you couldn't legally resell or distribute their pattern without their agreement and permission.  But you can make and sell any number of collars after purchasing and using their pattern.  Just can't sell the pattern.

A new type of dog collar would be patented if it was something new and unusual.  You can't legally make and sell a patented item without permission.  You can make one for yourself though.  Patents may apply to only one country, but can also be registered in other countries too. 

------------------------------------

Need to be clear and understand the definitions when talking about copyright, trademark, and patent.  I think a lot of people confuse what each refers to.

Tom

[LeatherNewbie76]

Thanks for the replies. I was just curious about the copyright and patent thing as well because their disclaimer says "copyright"

 so maybe the do mean the photos them selves cant be used as your own. The we own all these designs was the kicker to me.

[BDAZ]

I have been involved in a $1M patent suit involving scuba equipment and I hold a number of patents, trademarks and copyrights. The bottomline is how much you are prepared to pay a lawyer to file and later defend a patent or trademark. In the $1M suite the $1M went to the lawyers on both sides and they were the only winners. Trademarks can be modified slightly and copied BUT they are only viable once tested in a court. Same with copyrights. 

If I am producing a non commercial item, say a T-shirt for a party or festival that will be distributed, not sold, I have no worries about ripping off art that the creator will never see, IF I can't find them and get permission, which is usually given. In the case of trademarks, fair use is the only way they can be used by a 3rd party without weakening your trademark in future.

An example is this T-shirt I "created" which was not offered for sale commercially and qualified for fair use. Note: I don't have a political stance in this instance. It was commissioned  for a group of friends.

 

 

Bottom line is, I wouldn't worry about any of this unless you are going into mass production. If threatened, simply offer a licensing fee or explain this is a limited run. Otherwise ignore it. Lawyers will cost more than the problem is worth for the plaintiff.

Note, I am not a lawyer, but have paid them enough to put me through law school!

Bob

Edited July 22, 2018 by BDAZ