Singer 111W155 Timing/thread Issues

[gottaknow]

Hi Dave. From what you describe, your top and bottom shaft timing may still be a tad off. Perhaps one tooth. Machines will sew being one tooth off, they'll just be a little quirky. If you get bored, move the belt one tooth, retime the hook and try it. It's also possible that there's some wear in your take up arm or more likely it's bent. It's really easy to bend one. If it is, I suspect it's bent upward a touch. That would give you just a tiny bit too much thread during the cycle. Less than one tooth of shaft timing. Food for thought.

Regard, Eric

[dmar836]

Hmmm. Great ideas. I'll give those a shot! Thanks.

Dave

[bill2750]

I want to begin with a huge thank you to all that have posted here, and specifically Eric. I purchased a used 111W103 and got a great deal on it because it was not working and the owner did not know how to fix it. Honestly I didn't either but I thought I could figure it out with all the post's on this website. Anyway, my story played out exactly like this thread. As I tried to sew just manually turning the machine over, the thread would catch under the needle plate and bind up breaking the thread. So I started by checking the timing and sure enough the set screws on the lower belt gear were not like Erics picture posted early in this thread, so I fixed that. Next I moved the take up lever to the top position and the timing marks did not line up, so I slipped off the belt and keeping the take up lever in the top position, aligned the timing marks (about three teeth off). I threaded the machine and tried turning it over by hand and everything worked! It's sewing and I am thrilled. I have never owned or sewed a stitch with an industrial machine before. I went through and oiled her up. I know I still need to check the needle position and fine tune some things but it's working!

THANK YOU ERIC

I am attaching a picture and have a couple questions.

What is the green arrow pointing to? I don't have a manual. Also, if you follow the thread path around the tension plates and under the wire spring, there is a pointed metal tab (look through the hole in the silver disc at the point of the red arrow) that the thread is supposed to snap in behind as you go clockwise around the silver disc. I can't get the thread to go behind the tab by pulling the thread tight, it breaks the thread. So I thread it in behind and then under the wire spring and finish the normal path the the needle. Loosening the knurled knob doesn't help and changing the position of the silver disc doesn't help. There is a black set screw at the 12 o'clock position that doesn't seem to make a difference either. So I am flying blind at this point.

Edited January 24, 2015 by bill2750

[Constabulary]

I don´t know what this thing is but usually the adjustment screw for the presser foot is located there. Or take a picture from the to so we can see it better. This is how it looks at my 111G156

Because of the small tab that breaks your thread - try to push it back a tiny bit with a small screwdriver or so. If you can`t get it fixed I´d replace the entire tension unit. A new one is about $10. It´s held by just 2 small screws but you probably have to adjust the unit a bit. Or just take the parts from it you need to fix your old tension unit and you have some spare parts for the future. Thats the big advantage oft the old 111 series machines - you can get parts everywhere and even for a good price.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Constabulary

[pcox]

That is a light bracket. There was a ball socket that clamped on it so you could adjust a sewing light.

[gottaknow]

Glad the information was helpful Bill. As for that little tab on your check spring unit, Constabulary is correct, try giving it a bit more room with a screwdriver, followed with a piece of 400 grit cloth folded in half to take care of any sharp spots. From what I can see of your machine, it looks to be in good shape!

Pcox is right about that protrusion on the top of your machine. Here's a pic of a newer 211 with the original light unit so you can see what it looked like. Good design, horrible light. The light output from the motor is just 6.3 volts and used a 17w bulb. Not much light really.

Regards, Eric

[JodiG75]

I hope this helps anyone that is having any issues w/ the following industrial sewing machines.

Singer Models:

112W116 (FSN 3530-171-2123)

131W113 (FSN 3530-222-3422)

7-33 (FSN 3530-171-1730)

97-10 (FSN 3530-171-2095)

17W15 (FSN 3530-288-5936)

55-5 (FSN-222-3428)

111W155 (FSN 3530-359-8856)

Department of The Army - FREE E-BOOK on Organization & Field Maintenance on the Industrial Models listed above.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=jCUYAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Hope I helped someone in the need I was in!!

Best,

Jodi

[gottaknow]

Thanks Jodi,

Information and education are always needed. Even after 35 years of machine repair, I'm still learning.

Regards, Eric

[dmar836]

Almost two years since last post.  How did everyone come out?  I did get a 1541S and the 111W has sat.  I threaded the 111W the other day and remembered that backlashing issue was never entirely solved.  Rereading my posts, I thought I had it licked.  I can't remember that happening.

Update:  The feeling when sewing is that at a certain place as the needle begins to ascend a let off of power(hand or motor) will cause the needle to reverse direction just a bit - just when in a certain place in the cycle.  This causes slack on the forming loop which is not yet all the way around the hook.  This slack causes the lower thread of the loop to drop down and catch under the hook.  I have timed and retimed, checked shaft screw detents, etc.  I think this is the same issue TSquared was having.  That resistance point causing the backlash remains - even without the belt on.  Today I noticed that the lift linkage entering the back of the machine is touching the presser bar when at full throw. Adjusting the presser-lifting crank screw has now allowed it to stop short of hitting the presser bar.  I have yet to read a starting point for this linkage setup.  Nonetheless the resistance there is gone even at full lift eccentric adjustment.  Now I need to figure out how to adjust the lift of the presser bar. I either have it not touching the throat plate or it's touching and has zero lift movement when sewing. The vibrating foot will now lift about 1/2" to the 1/8" or so of the presser.

Unfortunately, I still have backlash.  Smoother but the needle bar still wants to fall back down about 1/8" when power is let off. 

My wife wants me to sell it as I really don't "need" it but it would be a great second or third operation machine and I know it can be fixed.  

Hope all are doing well!

Dave

Kansas City

Edited February 18, 2017 by dmar836

[brmax]

I havent re read the post, but will say the banana slot adjustment does not seem to me the only adjustment for this issue.

The step by boring step is what i have to do because it works for me A. through Z., now finding and using the proper manual is key.

Floyd

Edited February 18, 2017 by brmax

[Yetibelle]

If you have a motor take the belt off and just turn it by hand.  You should be able to get it to sew a few inches by hand before going back to the motor.

First try and get it to sew without thread and make sure the needle is not hitting the needle plate, feed dogs or hook.  If it pass's this test you should be able to change the stitch length (smallest to longest) and get the same results.  You may need a second set of hands to turn the wheel while you watch.  Then I use a piece of white paper and try and get it to sew that again no thread, just check the stich length and feeding mechanism.  Then if that is good and not grinding anything, thread it up and see if you can sew the paper a few inches by hand.  I attached the guide so you can walk through the settings again.  Its also a Singer so you need to firmly hold both threads with your left hand while you turn the wheel on the first few stiches or it won't set the first stiches correctly. 

I attached the guide. 

 

 

 

 

SINGER-111W152-111W153-111W154-111W155.pdf.lnk

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, Yetibelle said:

If you have a motor take the belt off and just turn it by hand.  You should be able to get it to sew a few inches by hand before going back to the motor.

First try and get it to sew without thread and make sure the needle is not hitting the needle plate, feed dogs or hook.  If it pass's this test you should be able to change the stitch length (smallest to longest) and get the same results.  You may need a second set of hands to turn the wheel while you watch.  Then I use a piece of white paper and try and get it to sew that again no thread, just check the stich length and feeding mechanism.  Then if that is good and not grinding anything, thread it up and see if you can sew the paper a few inches by hand.  I attached the guide so you can walk through the settings again.  Its also a Singer so you need to firmly hold both threads with your left hand while you turn the wheel on the first few stiches or it won't set the first stiches correctly. 

I attached the guide. 

SINGER-111W152-111W153-111W154-111W155.pdf.lnk

This is only a shortcut link from your computer.  Not the pdf.  Please retry.

Tom

[Yetibelle]

File is a little big I guess.  Its a nice color scan.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8SsIFb6Bqz7bjBSb2Y2cjlMNGs/view?usp=sharing

see if that link works

Edited:  Downloaded file and attached it in case the google drive dries up.

SINGER-111W152-111W153-111W154-111W155.pdf

Edited February 24, 2017 by northmount
attached file

[Wizcrafts]

5 hours ago, Yetibelle said:

File is a little big I guess.  Its a nice color scan.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8SsIFb6Bqz7bjBSb2Y2cjlMNGs/view?usp=sharing

se if that link works

 

Bingo! It works perfectly and the scan is excellent. Thanks.

[dmar836]

Not sure what some of the above responses were referring to but mine will sew fine with the exception that it wants to backlash just a tad at the end of a run of stitches.  If in the right position this allows the hook to "drop" the forming thread loop, which then catches on the bottom of the hook body.  Any continuation further turns the hook as it should but this then breaks the loop as it's no longer held by the point.  I'm to the point of thinking a bent part is causing the resistance that causes backlash. 

I removed the needle bar and checked it.  It's .006 - .008 out of round.  The presser bar also has some resistance and often wont hit the throat plate without significant foot tension dialed in.  I might have to replace both the needle and presser bars but spending money on it and risking no change?.... I'm wearing thin with this one.

Dave

 

P.S.  That's one of the best scans I've seen of that manual.  Thanks!

Edited February 22, 2017 by dmar836

[gottaknow]

Backlashing in the bobbin case is a fact of life. Over the years, there have been many remedies, some that work better than others.  If you're sewing a long run at higher speed, simply slowing down a bit before  you stop will allow the backlash to be taken up before stopping. The original backlash prevention for Singers was a very thin piece of fabric inserted underneath the bobbin and one drop of oil applied to this as needed. Cohesion did a very nice job of stopping the backlash. I still do this in the factory for older machines that don't have a backlash device in the case. The new (and older Juki's) use a spring device that applies friction to the bobbin. Their double needles use a coiled spring that pushes out against the bobbin to stop backlash. If you choose the fabric method, just make sure that it's thin enough not to increase the tension after inserted. Trust me, high speed garment machines will backlash 12" or so if no steps are taken at all. A huge mess ensues. Even a single drop of oil under the bobbin will decrease backlash. I also use aluminum bobbins whenever possible. The difference in weight makes a real difference.

Regards, Eric

[dmar836]

Thanks Eric.  It's not really the bobbin itself that backlashes - though I'm sure that's the correct term that and that I used it incorrectly. It's the whole machine. There is a slight "relaxing" when I stop sewing, even if using the balance wheel by hand, that occurs only at the point that the needle bar is rising and as the top thread loop on the hook is anywhere between about the 10 - 2 o'clock position. It relaxes just a few degrees essentially reversing.  Not only can you see the hook move backwards but you can see the rising needle bar reverse directions and go back down for 1/16" to 1/8". The forward pressure is relaxed and that's when lower thread of the loop falls under the hook, snags on the hook body(or falls underneath).  While it occurs only at a certain place in the hook formation, attempting to bring the needle up by hand to end a stitch run inevitably means you will wheel past this strange point. It gets you about every time and the only fix I have found is to pass the balance wheel between two hands and never let it go until the needle is up and that stick locked.  Not an acceptable fix IMO. It's subtle as there isn't much movement. I have seen people freely manipulate the hand wheel as I can on my other machines without losing the loop and breaking the thread. 

After starting over so many times with timing, etc. I thought maybe even the belt might have taken a set or that the feed dog was maybe meeting the vibrating foot too soon, etc. Removal of the belt should have stopped either of these but it didn't. There is a stickiness when I manually force the presser bar up.  It's not smooth at all and won't return fully to the needle plate without considerable spring presser added. The needle bar wasn't perfectly straight but doesn't stick in the bore like the presser bar.  Wondering if during a previous transport it didn't fall over onto something that hit the presser bar area. I assume that bar should move smoothly up and down with the flat pressure spring backed off.  I think the PO sold this due to this frustrating issue. 

Thought we had this one licked, no?

Dave

[gottaknow]

Are you using a clutch motor or a servo?

Regards, Eric

[dmar836]

Clutch.  But remember it happens even when disconnected drive belt and cogged belt between shafts. Mystery!

[brmax]

Does it happen when checking with the presser feet in raised position.

 

good day 

Floyd

[dmar836]

Yes.  Just as bad. 

Dave

[gottaknow]

If the machine is sewing ok for you, heel back on the pedal to apply the brake whenever you stop. This is a basic function of a clutch motor. I have a Juki LU 562 that does the same thing. Not really worth my time to find exactly why, but I've seen this on several machines over the years. The large cam that drives the needle bar will sometimes just rotate down due to its weight. Especially on a machine that is well worn and well lubricated. If your brake is set correctly, you should be able to stop the rotation of the machine. When I use a clutch, I always heel back to stop the machine. If the machine wants to creep a bit, it simply can't. Even if you've got some bent bars, if the machine is sewing ok, no worries. 

Regards, Eric 

[dmar836]

Sounds good.  I've never attempted to brake with the pedal.  Thanks a lot all!

Dave

[keithski122]

I had the same problem with a juki 563 I adjusted the brake so as soon as the pedal is released the brake is applied and stops the machine going backwards slightly.It worked really well until I changed over to a servo motor a few weeks ago.

[Cbruce32]

Hello to any who might be able to help. I have a 111w153 and it sews really tight stitches going straight. Very even and right. I have done a lot of adjusting on the machine and finally got it to sew well. The only problem I have is when I am sewing around the end of a belt or making a tight corner the top thread won't pull the bottom thread all the way center leaving a bit of the loop on the bottom of the garment. As soon as I straighten out stitches are tight again. Curious if anyone knew why this was happening. Thought maybe there is a take up timing issue but not quite sure. The loop is more like a wart or a knot. Have a servo motor and speed reducer on the machine. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Cbruce32