YinTx Report post Posted January 16, 2015 I think I could use some help here. Recently removed the round point needles that came in the Techsew 4100 machine I purchased, and installed Organ 794 LR Size 230/26 with white 277 thread. First round was a complete disaster, finally managed to get the results shown in the photos. Not certain it is what it should be though, and I can't say that I'm happy with it. Any suggestions on what I should be doing to get this to be a better stitch? Also looks like it is blowing out the back, not a clean exit. One row is just with the needle, the second row has the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoubleC Report post Posted January 16, 2015 Yin? who did you let talk you into 100.00 worth of needles and to change what the tecksew had in it already. Did it sew with that needle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted January 16, 2015 No, it didn't sew well with the round point needle either. From everything I can find, round points aren't necessarily intended for leather anyhow. I am hoping this is operator error here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoubleC Report post Posted January 16, 2015 It could be yin, machines have a steep learning curve. I think the 26 is too big though, I really do. I use 24s with my 277 and it seems to work well. I get mine a pkg a time from cobra steve and he tells me what I need. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I´d say too thin thread or too thick needle. I´d try a 180 to 200 (metric) needles for 277 thread (180 might be a bit tight but I´d at least try it) and would reduce the foot pressure on the center foot as it leaves feed dog marks on the backside. Leather seems not to be very thick so a round point needle could probably work fine but depends on the result you expect. Different points produce different seams. I think I have seen a chart from GROZ BECKERT showing the different seams that the different needle tip will produce but can´t find it atm. Edited January 16, 2015 by Constabulary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARK9 Report post Posted January 16, 2015 www.artisansew.com/pdf/manuals/schmetz_cutting.pdf http://grozbeckert.com/cms/en/products_services/sewing/smn_produktprogramm/weitere_produktinformationen_sewing/s_leather_points/ -DC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) LinTx; #26 needles are meant for #346 thread, top and bottom. Try some Schmetz #25/200 S point needles. They produce an inline stitch, with minimal bottom puckering, depending on the pressure on the presser foot. Edited January 16, 2015 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra Steve Report post Posted January 16, 2015 YinTX. We sell both Schmetz and Organ in both Leather Point and Round Point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Techsew Ron Report post Posted January 16, 2015 How thick is the leather you're sewing? you should probably go down in needle size and thread size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gump Report post Posted January 16, 2015 Check to make sure your needle is aligned at the right angle. Those needles should cut a 45 degree angle cut and they look rather flat across. And yes they are too large for the thread and leather as others have posted. Gump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted January 16, 2015 Been following everyone's advice, and so far I can't say things have gotten better. Again, I am sure operator error. The presser foot pressure is so low the threaded post is about to come out of the top of the machine. The foot has been ground down and polished even. The work literally lifts 1/2" from the plate when the needle is coming back up, so I don't think I can have less pressure. When the needle was making the correct shaped holes, the long groove was on the left side, but seemed to make a scraping noise in the bobbin area, so I rotated it slightly until the noise stopped. I will be ordering the maintenance CD from Raphael Sewing in the hopes it may have some info that will clue me in. Steve, thanks for the offer for needles, but I already have more than I will use in some time as noted in DoubleC's first post. Eventually, I suspect I will find the size/style I want, and at that point I may call and order some. I don't really want an S needle, as I am looking for a decorative slanted stitch. In fact I would have tried the "P" needle, but the place I bought them from didn't have any at the time. Since I got frustrated with the Techsew 4100, decided to move over to the 2700. I needed to work with a smaller thread on a project, so I changed out the needle and thread, started to try to sew on scrap with absolutely no luck. The hook is not catching the thread from the needle, so no bottom stitch, which means no stitch. Fiddled with tension, but no change. The best I ever got was one stitch to catch. Took the lid off and watched the timing, everything seemed fine, but the hook is not catching the thread off of the needle, just passing it by. Did this without leather, just slowly rotating the machine by hand. Is this because of the smaller thread? I am using a Black BNT 69 thread with a Groz-Beckert needle, I am assuming size 18, which from what I can tell is the top end for this thread ( here I don't have a smaller needle, yet). The numbering on these needles is just short of cryptic: 135x16 RTW, NRTW, DP x 16 LR, 389,200 AC01LR, 10 Nm 110/18. The machine doesn't want to push the needle through thin leather, it just binds and the clutch mechanism at the belt to machine pulley slips. Even with no thread in the needle. Takes a pair of soft nosed pliers to pull the needle out of the holder, even with the retaining screw fully removed. I checked to see if there was any thread filament bound up, pulled the caps off of the bobbin section, turned the machine over, vacuumed it out, wiped the oil, re-oiled it, rethreaded it following the Techsew video on Youtube, etc. Stitching at the slowest speed the servo motor will run at. No luck. Tempted to take it to the nearest recycle for the iron content. One of those days to throw the towel in. As always, very open to suggestions, as I have tried everything suggested above, and willing to try more. I have way to much $$ invested in these machines for zero stitches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catskin Report post Posted January 16, 2015 If I read your post right you are trying to see if the machine will catch the thread with out sewing anything, most machines will not catch the top thread every time unless the needle is going through something (sewing )Being that you are having trouble with both machines I think you need to recheck the threading. Sounds to me like you might be missing something in the threading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted January 17, 2015 Catskin, Thanks for your reply. It is a bit confusing for me though, don't all machines catch the thread so that you can pull the bobbin thread up through the plate without any material before you start to sew? I can not even do that 95% of the time. I did follow the threading procedure outlined in the Techsew Youtube videos, so unless I shouldn't be doing something they are doing when I am using thinner threads? YinTx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted January 17, 2015 If you aren't sewing through leather or some material, there is no resistance to cause the thread to form a loop at the needle. It just follows the needle back up. It also sounds like some thread caught in the bobbin basket, causing the machine to bind. Cut a strip of leather and sew along the edge with the bobbin cover open, you should be able to observe the loop form and be picked up by the hook. For your big machine, you need enough foot pressure to keep the needle from pulling the leather and foot up. Larger needles and also denser or harder leather require more foot pressure. Where do you live? You may be able to find a member with a machine, or experience that lives somewhere near you that could give some direct help. Tom Edit Has the safety clutch on your 2700 tripped? If so needs to be reset. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Techsew Ron Report post Posted January 17, 2015 Hi Yin, give us a call Monday morning and we'll go through this with you step by step. Ron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted January 17, 2015 Ron, Thank you for your offer, I will certainly give you a call on Monday, as I had planned to order the DVD from your web page. To be fair, since you are offering assistance via phone, you should be aware that I have been referring to the smaller of the two machines I have as a 2700 to avoid confusion with those reading my postings. It is in fact a Bogle Greenwell, which appears every bit identical to the 2700. My larger machine is indeed a Techsew 4100. Since I have been unable to draw the bobbin string up with the smaller thread at all (and no, I've never seen someone do this with leather in the machine, seems it would make a mess when you are trying to finish threading the machine), I have reloaded the smaller machine with 135 thread today, and the hook is picking it up now. However, I still have tension issues, as the knot is below the material, regardless of thick or thin, hard veg tan leather or soft pleather. I increase the top tension until the machine barely pulls the thread through the plates without stalling, still knots on the bottom. The only place I am aware of to adjust bobbin tension is when you wind the bobbin. This is set pretty loose right now, but not helping. It is possible there is thread bound somewhere in the bobbin case, but I don't want to start pulling screws out and discover I have taken something apart I should not have, and wind up in a worse place than I am now. If someone knows another place to adjust bobbin tension, please fill me in! Again, I am very new at this and hoping this is truly operator error and not a machine issue, so I am trying everything being suggested. Presumably, I will learn the ins and outs of these machines to where I don't get in stitches over issues! Thanks again to all for continuing to suggest where I am messing up here, and when I get this figured out I will post the results. YinTx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catskin Report post Posted January 18, 2015 From this last post it seems to be something to do with the take up lever not pulling the thread up as far as it should. This could be caused by something loose or maybe for some reason something is bumping and releasing the top thread tension for just a fraction of a second as the take up lever gets to the top of its stroke. Thus not pulling the thread the last bit up in to the leather. Disclaimer: I do not own a machine of these models, this based on general sewing machine functions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcox Report post Posted January 18, 2015 bobbin tension set at the winder? Bobbin tension is set with the tiny little screw that goes thru the bobbin tension spring on the side of the bobbin case. There are 2 screws it is the left one below the slot that the bobbin thread goes thru when you change bobbins. Are you threading the bobbin right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geneva Report post Posted January 18, 2015 Yintx Where are you located?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted January 18, 2015 Regarding bobbin tension: that explains one thing. My curiosity got the better of me yesterday, and I decided to pull that screw out in the bobbin basket holding the flat metal strip as you can see in the photo, thinking maybe something in there was binding up the thread coming out of the bobbin. I blew it out, put it back in, and now the thread comes out much easier! I did not know that this screw adjusted tension. I have tried to search this site everywhere regarding bobbin tension, but always just says adjust bobbin tension. Everyone has photos of top tension adjustments, and how to, but never the bottom! lol. So I will put a picture on this post, you will see where I have pulled the screw out (pointing with the jewelers screwdriver), and I am presuming now that is a bobbin tension adjustment for the 2700 and variants. But I am still having issues with the machine punching through any leather without the clutch mechanism slipping where the pulley attaches to the machine. I put in a brand new size 23 leather point needle without thread in the needle, and it will not go through a single layer of 1/8" veg tan. It will run through thin thin leather though. Not sure why this is. Again, able to get some stitching with larger thread in nagahyde/pleather, still skipping occasionally, and no backstitching capabilities. No luck with the small thread and needle. I am installing the bobbin correctly, have even tried to install it backwards for assurance: nope, doesn't work installed backwards, so I have had it in correctly this whole time. Unfortunately, I have no books, drawings, DVD, instruction manuals or anything for these machines, so struggling as I go along. If anyone knows where I can get books for them, I would appreciate that info too! Also, I am in Texas. YinTx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakman Report post Posted January 18, 2015 That is not the screw to adjust the lower thread tension. The lower tension is set with the one of the screws that holds the flat spring on the bobbin case. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakman Report post Posted January 18, 2015 Oops, I guess I wasn't looking at your picture correctly. I believe you are correct and that is the adjustment for lower thread tension. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted January 18, 2015 Look at the Consew 227 variants manuals here: http://www.consew.com/Resources/ Manuals have bobbin tension instructions, though the 2 screws may be labelled opposite. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YinTx Report post Posted January 18, 2015 Goldmine for me, thank you! I'll read them through so when I talk to Ron at Techsew, I can at least speak the same language. YinTx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLSleather Report post Posted January 18, 2015 Definitely call Ron, seems like that would be the guy to see for your machine. Meanwhile, your "LR" needle may be rotated and not oriented quite right - that hole looks awfully oblong (l to r). Here's that pic again... this is a "LR" needle and an "S" needle, with everything else unchanged. 207 thread / #23 needle / 5.5 spi (or some metric equivalent) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
