Art Report post Posted November 11, 2015 Tinker, We use a combination of 1 gallon ATF and 1 gallon K-1 Kerosene mixed with 1/4 lb lanolin as a gun/fine machine oil. Not only is it superior to other oils, it is way cheaper. For older sewing machines, regular mineral oil works just fine. Note that ATF is pretty much mineral oil and some additives, one of which is color which can be a problem on sewing machines, so there is no little lost when substituting mineral oil for ATF. You can take 2 gallons of the above mix and add one gallon of mineral spirits and one gallon of acetone to make a very good solvent. We need a lot of it to use in our large ultrasonic cleaner (3 or 4 m-16 uppers will fit in it at one time). You need to keep the solvent in a metal can as the acetone will attack some of the plastic bottles (like HDPE), glass is ok too. I have found out that this formula is close to a formula used as a bore cleaner at the Frankford Arsenal in Philadelphia years ago, well, I can attest that it still works. While the above formula is a great penetrating oil, if it won't do the job, try Kroil. For just lubricating a sewing machine, mineral oil will do the job for all but the most extreme situations. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) I knew my oil comments were bound to get a reaction. Regarding 3 in 1 oil, it's now owned by the WD-40 company and the formulation changed some time ago. It's now basically just a heavy napthenic oil with a tiny bit of naptha (less than 3%) added, no different to many other mineral oils. The term "mineral oil" can also cause some confusion, as most oils (car oils etc.) are termed mineral.There are also pharmaceutical-grade mineral oils, which are obviously different to car oils, and I suspect it's this grade that some members are actually referring to. Ballistol is one, which is widely used by firearms owners and can apparently also be used on cuts and grazes!!!! It is also a water-soluble oil. The newer generation lightweight car oils (0-20W, for instance) could be worth considering. These are designed to be thin and like most car oils to resist forming varnish - if it can do this in a hostile engine environment then it certainly won't happen in a sewing machine. Staining could be an issue, I guess, but that will be possible with virtually anything you use. I didn't mention WD-40, as while it does lubricate it has no long-term properties, as TT pointed out. Art, the mixture you're referring to is generally called Ed's Red by the firearms fraternity (which I suspect you already know?). I make mine without the acetone due to the nasty affect it can have on stock finishes, and use it to clean my muzzleloaders. Looking up the MSDS for oils, and then cross-checking the CAS numbers for the ingredients used, can be most interesting (although time-consuming). That will show what you're really using, and quite often it's different to the impression given by the manufacturers' advertising. Edited November 11, 2015 by dikman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 11, 2015 Ed's Red, no, maybe Ed hijacked the formula, but it is Frankford Arsenal Formula # 17 I believe and is the bore solvent variant (you have to use the ultrasonic and sometimes a brass patch for lead fouling though). Mineral oil is transparent and colorless and is sold in light and heavy grades. The light grades are often used in sewing machine oil. They sell it at most Drug and big food stores, so if you run out of Dritz oil, there you go, nothing magical about it. Mineral oil and a little perfume is Baby Oil. Because of it's long chain, it is pretty safe stuff. Nevertheless, don't use any car motor oil in your sewing machine, tooooooo many additives some of a negative value. BTW we have occasionally used tractor hydraulic oil in the Formula # 17, Should we then call it Formula #71 or maybe Ed's Green? Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted November 11, 2015 Glad yall told me about the 3-1 oil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 I just bought oil from Toledo bob. Lol. Done and done. Thanks for all this input though very informative! I just picked up my machine! Consew 206 rb, no clue what year but great condition. I did not test sew it (I know I know rookie mistake) but the ppl I bought from were pretty up front about everything so I have confidence. Buuuuut the bobbin winder is broke. I didn't know that, the lady didn't really know what the broken off piece went to, and the dad bought it simply to resell. So. Isn't it best to just replace the whole thing? It's cheap right?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) The missing part is the bobbin winder tension assembly. I just bought one on eBay for $10.00. Edited November 12, 2015 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 12, 2015 You can buy the whole contraption for $8 or $9 here. Might as well get some bobbins and a bobbin case or two if needed. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted November 12, 2015 Art, I didn't mean to imply that Ed "invented" the stuff. You are quite right in that it was originally a Frankford Arsenal product, but apparently the original recipe was difficult to reproduce. Ed came up with his concoction which is generally acknowledged as being a reasonable (modern) approximation of the original formulation. No, this would be called "Art's Green", 'cos you developed the variant . Enough of guns (for now), back to sewing machines....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 Cool thanks everybody! I think im gonna order off of ebay so I can ask for next day shipping lol. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 12, 2015 MG, this is based on my removing/replacing 3 clutch motors. Basic tools - a couple of spanners, because you don't know the size of the nuts you can either take a set of spanners or a couple of adjustable wrenches, a medium to biggish one for the nuts holding the motor on and a smaller one for the bolts on the pedal-motor linkage. A couple of screwdrivers to remove the switch box. It will be held on with either slotted or Philips head screws (use long shank if you can, just in case). Pair of pliers to remove any cable clips. Procedure - unplug power cord (!) and remove switch box. Remove any clips holding the power cable to the table. Disconnect pedal linkage. Remove drive belt. Loosen the three nuts holding the motor on and let the motor hang down on the bolts. While supporting the motor remove the single nut at the front then slide the motor out from the remaining two bolts. Done. As for the oil question (I love oil questions!!!!) at the risk of starting a flaming war if you've got 3-in-1 oil handy use that. Much is written about oils, and much of what is written is irrelevant (and oft-times rubbish). Basically, all you really want is a thinnish oil. Auto Trans Fluid is actually quite good as a thin oil (it was originally developed as a replacement for Sperm Whale oil, which is considered by many to be one of the better lubricating oils - but obviously you can't get it any more). Just don't get yourself into a knot over oils as most of them aren't anything special (regardless of what the manufacturer might tell you - MSDS is your friend ). The look of success. Now to get the servo on... I'm tired lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 13, 2015 You can buy the whole contraption for $8 or $9 here. Might as well get some bobbins and a bobbin case or two if needed. Art The missing part is the bobbin winder tension assembly. I just bought one on eBay for $10.00.Bought the bobbin winder off ebay! I got the servo on, but it didn't come with a new belt! I don't know if that's my fault for not asking for it or what, I thought it came with it. Can I get a 2in belt from any in stores like vacuum shops so I don't have to order online and wait??Also, check this pic out. Is it just me or is the current bobbin wonder on here back wards?? All photos on google have the wheel toward the front of the machine, where mine clearly doesn't... I mean does it matter? Thanks!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 13, 2015 I guess you could put it on that way, however the thread comes off the thread stand tree and then goes to the bobbin winder tension assembly, and if backwards like that it might interfere with the balance wheel and belt, then again, it might not. I think I like it the 'normal' way Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dikman Report post Posted November 13, 2015 Art is right, it will work ok like that but it's probably better to have the thread coming in at the rear (I'd prefer to keep the thread away from the handwheel). I doubt if too many servos would come with belts, mainly because you don't know what size belt you'll need until it's installed. I ran a piece of rope around the pulleys and tied it off with cable ties where it overlapped. Armed with this I went to autoparts stores until I found the right size. I also used the same trick when I needed a very small belt for a speed reducer setup. Figuring carparts stores were unlikely to have anything that small, I went to an industrial sewing machine shop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 13, 2015 Art is right, it will work ok like that but it's probably better to have the thread coming in at the rear (I'd prefer to keep the thread away from the handwheel). I doubt if too many servos would come with belts, mainly because you don't know what size belt you'll need until it's installed. I ran a piece of rope around the pulleys and tied it off with cable ties where it overlapped. Armed with this I went to autoparts stores until I found the right size. I also used the same trick when I needed a very small belt for a speed reducer setup. Figuring carparts stores were unlikely to have anything that small, I went to an industrial sewing machine shop. The missing part is the bobbin winder tension assembly. I just bought one on eBay for $10.00. Ok so just so im clear, when I get the new bobbin winder in I should install like in the picture? I'm amusing the wheel needs to line up to the belt or else what would make it "wind" right? And I can't seem to get that flipping cover off to try and attempt to get the old belt wrapped around to see if it will even fit. I undid the screw but that piece that kinda covers the belt next to the hand wheel I can't get off, if u can't get it off how are u suppose to get a belt on it?! Since we have the same machine and the sane servo, isn't it fair to say I could take your advice in what size belt to get?? I clearly don't know what I'm doing as is so your suggestions don't hurt even if they don't work for me lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 13, 2015 Wiz I couldn't add this photo on the last reply, but I think I figured out the lever you were talking about. You said keep it straight but mine is no where near straight, not sure if it's obvious enough from this angle. I don't have anymore rod to try and straighten it out with and I like the position of the pedal... What could I do to make this straight? Or would I have to just move the pedal over to straighten the rod? Thx everyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 13, 2015 That rod is more than straight enough. The problem I had was caused by a huge angle of about 30 degrees off center exerting a side pull at the bottom of the travel. The machine was on a pedestal table that positions the motor rather far away from the speed pedal. I have not experienced the slowdowns on machines mounted on standard industrial sewing machine tables. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Ok. Been 2 auto zone 3 times the last hour and a half trying to get the right belt. I decided to hold off going back only because my bobbin winder is suppose to come in tomoro... And from all the photos on Google of it attached the right way, it looks like the belt is what drives the winder to fill the bobbin. But I have the plate thing (left picture) and I can't figure out how to get that off! I took the screws on the handwheel out and tried pulling but nothing happens. I've seen 206s with that thing not on there, it also make it hard to get all these belts I keep trying on and off... Any help? Please Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 One more angle. What is this called, the belt guard? Annoying little bugger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Mounting the bobbin winder is the last thing to do. Ignore the bobbin winder when sizing and installing your drive belt. Your belt length should be 2 x the centre to centre distance of the pulleys, plus 1/2 the circumference of the 2 pulleys. Position your motor about halfway in the adjustment range so you have space to install and adjust. The pulley size is the outside diameter of the pulley. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CowboyBob Report post Posted November 14, 2015 There's a screw in the center of the wheel(look from the outside) rightside, that is probably holding it on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MG513 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Mounting the bobbin winder is the last thing to do. Ignore the bobbin winder when sizing and installing your drive belt. Your belt length should be 2 x the centre to centre distance of the pulleys, plus 1/2 the circumference of the 2 pulleys. Position your motor about halfway in the adjustment range so you have space to install and adjust. The pulley size is the outside diameter of the pulley. Tom There's a screw in the center of the wheel(look from the outside) rightside, that is probably holding it on.Tom, good to know that the winder should be last in my to do list!! Thx for that. Now as far as everything else u said, sounds like your speaking Mandarin. 2x this, circumference that, I don't get any of that unfortunately. But I'm determined to figure this out so... I will try and make sense of what you said. To be quite honest I do t know if the motor is in the right "adjustment range" or not. With no experience I don't have a clue how to figure that, so I will just be making adjustments until it's right! (See pic, yay or nay)?Bob, I did remove that screw.. I removed all the removable screws from the handwheel and pieces surrounding it and there is no give. I mean I'm not sure how much harder I could pull. That seems like the only logical way to get that stupid piece off but as of now I can't get the wheel off to get to that part. Im gonna have to scour the web to find more articles and hopefully some videos on this. I also think my tension assembly isn't out on correctly so I'm gonna spend my whole day tomoro trying to get this thing running properly... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pcox Report post Posted November 14, 2015 mine takes a 40 inch belt, but a 39 will also work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northmount Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Now as far as everything else u said, sounds like your speaking Mandarin. 2x this, circumference that, I don't get any of that unfortunately. But I'm determined to figure this out so... I will try and make sense of what you said. To be quite honest I do t know if the motor is in the right "adjustment range" or not. With no experience I don't have a clue how to figure that, so I will just be making adjustments until it's right! (See pic, yay or nay)? ... Looks like your adjustment is roughly centred. For the simple math part, draw a sketch to scale and reread the instruction. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Tom, good to know that the winder should be last in my to do list!! Thx for that. Now as far as everything else u said, sounds like your speaking Mandarin. The staff at leatherworker.net aims in most endeavours to please, and be helpful to our members. In that vein, I have included Tom's instructions in Mandarin, and in simplified Chinese if that helps. 腰带长度应为2×中心到中心距离的滑轮，加上1/2的2皮带轮的周长。将您的大约一半在调整范围马达，所以你足够的空间来安装和调整。皮带轮尺寸是皮带轮的外径。 Yāodài chángdù yīng wèi 2×zhōngxīn dào zhōngxīn jùlí de huálún, jiā shàng 1/2 de 2 pídàilún de zhōu cháng. Jiāng nín de dàyuē yībàn zài tiáozhěng fànwéi mǎdá, suǒyǐ nǐ zúgòu de kōngjiān lái ānzhuāng hé tiáozhěng. Pídàilún chǐcùn shì pídàilún de wài jìng. Art 腰带长度应为2×中心到中心距离的滑轮，加上1/2的2皮带轮的周长。将您的大约一半在调整范围马达，所以你足够的空间来安装和调整。皮带轮尺寸是皮带轮的外径。 Yāodài chángdù yīng wèi 2×zhōngxīn dào zhōngxīn jùlí de huálún, jiā shàng 1/2 de 2 pídàilún de zhōu cháng. Jiāng nín de dàyuē yībàn zài tiáozhěng fànwéi mǎdá, suǒyǐ nǐ zúgòu de kōngjiān lái ānzhuāng hé tiáozhěng. Pídàilún chǐcùn shì pídàilún de wài jìng. 腰带长度应为2×中心到中心距离的滑轮，加上1/2的2皮带轮的周长。将您的大约一半在调整范围马达，所以你足够的空间来安装和调整。皮带轮尺寸是皮带轮的外径。Yāodài chángdù yīng wèi 2×zhōngxīn dào zhōngxīn jùlí de huálún, jiā shàng 1/2 de 2 pídàilún de zhōu cháng. Jiāng nín de dàyuē yībàn zài tiáozhěng fànwéi mǎdá, suǒyǐ nǐ zúgòu de kōngjiān lái ānzhuāng hé tiáozhěng. Pídàilún chǐcùn shì pídàilún de wài jìng. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LumpenDoodle2 Report post Posted November 14, 2015 Lol! You could just do what I do. Take a bit string, put it round the two pulleys, just like the belt, then measure its length. I can guarantee from personal experience, it is idiot proof. :-() Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
