Members MG513 Posted November 11, 2015 Members Report Posted November 11, 2015 MG, this is based on my removing/replacing 3 clutch motors. Basic tools - a couple of spanners, because you don't know the size of the nuts you can either take a set of spanners or a couple of adjustable wrenches, a medium to biggish one for the nuts holding the motor on and a smaller one for the bolts on the pedal-motor linkage. A couple of screwdrivers to remove the switch box. It will be held on with either slotted or Philips head screws (use long shank if you can, just in case). Pair of pliers to remove any cable clips. Procedure - unplug power cord (!) and remove switch box. Remove any clips holding the power cable to the table. Disconnect pedal linkage. Remove drive belt. Loosen the three nuts holding the motor on and let the motor hang down on the bolts. While supporting the motor remove the single nut at the front then slide the motor out from the remaining two bolts. Done. As for the oil question (I love oil questions!!!!) at the risk of starting a flaming war if you've got 3-in-1 oil handy use that. Much is written about oils, and much of what is written is irrelevant (and oft-times rubbish). Basically, all you really want is a thinnish oil. Auto Trans Fluid is actually quite good as a thin oil (it was originally developed as a replacement for Sperm Whale oil, which is considered by many to be one of the better lubricating oils - but obviously you can't get it any more). Just don't get yourself into a knot over oils as most of them aren't anything special (regardless of what the manufacturer might tell you - MSDS is your friend ). I would suggest that there is an enormous body of experience that discourages the use of either WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil in sewing machines, guns, fishing reels....anything which will be sensitive to gummy or hygroscopic shellac deposits over time. There is nothing easier to get than ordinary sewing machine *white* oil. Avoid any gimmick oil that is suspended in a volatile carrier, as the carrier evaporates over time and leaves lord-knows-what behind. Any machines with ball or roller bearings should not use an oil with moly additives. -DC THANKS EVERYBODY. I told them not to use WD40 or 3 n 1, but 3n1 is readily available so it will have to do this time. This is my first go round Im just learning as I go… I ordered this stuff online but the post off lost my package, either that or it was stolen so I didn't have time to order this stuff again and wait for shipping. The sewing places I have here in my city are a joke, they sell nothing for industrial machines, not even basic V69 thread!! I got lucky and bought an almost used up spool from an old lady's shop for 5 bucks. I know we live in an online everything age but it starts to get really inconvenient at times like this when your learning a new craft and can't walk into a chain hardware store and find some darn oil! Or any other super basic parts! Anyways. Im feeling pretty confident with all the help I'm getting from everybody. I now have a list for tools needed from 2 very nice members, a short version and a long version for properly taking off the clutch/adding servo which was big for me cause I've never done this stuff before! I will order the proper oil when i order my servo today from Toledo Bob. Thanks yal! Quote
CowboyBob Posted November 11, 2015 Report Posted November 11, 2015 Years ago when I first started repairing sewing machines my neighbor wanted me to look @ his mothers machine.I went there & it was a real old White treadle machine.So I looked it over oiled it,threaded it & started to sew & it started getting tighter,so I oiled it again & then it tied up & wouldn't turn.The she started yelling to him in Italian & he started getting upset w/me saying she thought I ruined her machine.I didn't know what to do so I said let me take it with me & fix it.She didn't like the idea but he convinced her it'll be ok.So I took it to work & told the old mechanic what happened & he just started laughing & thought it was really funny.Then he said that's what happens after years of 3 in 1.It builds up a waxing shellac type of crap in the bearings & when I oiled it it expanded & tied it up.He said take to kerosene & put in the bearings,so I did & it freed up.Took it back & she was smiling when I left.So after that I don't want to think about using 3 n1 on anything.ATF,motor oil,gear lube isn't good for most machines either,if it drips off the machine onto what your sewing it'll stain.It is best to use clear sewing machine oil or mineral oil.Even then if someone has used the wrong oil n the past it might stain for a while until it gets worked out of the machine. Quote Bob Kovar Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine Sales Ltd. 3631 Marine Rd Toledo,Ohio 43609 1-866-362-7397
Members MG513 Posted November 11, 2015 Members Report Posted November 11, 2015 Years ago when I first started repairing sewing machines my neighbor wanted me to look @ his mothers machine.I went there & it was a real old White treadle machine.So I looked it over oiled it,threaded it & started to sew & it started getting tighter,so I oiled it again & then it tied up & wouldn't turn.The she started yelling to him in Italian & he started getting upset w/me saying she thought I ruined her machine.I didn't know what to do so I said let me take it with me & fix it.She didn't like the idea but he convinced her it'll be ok.So I took it to work & told the old mechanic what happened & he just started laughing & thought it was really funny.Then he said that's what happens after years of 3 in 1.It builds up a waxing shellac type of crap in the bearings & when I oiled it it expanded & tied it up.He said take to kerosene & put in the bearings,so I did & it freed up.Took it back & she was smiling when I left.So after that I don't want to think about using 3 n1 on anything.ATF,motor oil,gear lube isn't good for most machines either,if it drips off the machine onto what your sewing it'll stain.It is best to use clear sewing machine oil or mineral oil.Even then if someone has used the wrong oil n the past it might stain for a while until it gets worked out of the machine. Wow. I'm hoping they haven't been doing the same thing. But I'm also glad to hear that it could be fixed if so! Again,this will be a one time use thing on my part as I know this oil isn't ideal, I'm just on time constraint. I will be calling you later today to order oil and possibly my servo. Thanks again everybody! Quote
CowboyBob Posted November 11, 2015 Report Posted November 11, 2015 Any oil is better than no oil. Quote Bob Kovar Toledo Industrial Sewing Machine Sales Ltd. 3631 Marine Rd Toledo,Ohio 43609 1-866-362-7397
Members TinkerTailor Posted November 11, 2015 Members Report Posted November 11, 2015 I get bicycle vintage 3-speed transmissions at work all the time that are broken....They are usually fine and have seized up from improper oil, 3in1 and even sewing machine oil. Any oil over time will eventually turn to varish, how long is the question. My fix is to spray an ounce or 3 of wd40 into the lube hole and then run the hub as fast as i can until it frees up. I then drain the wd40 (and all the chunky black cruddy stuff) out and put in ATF. It lasts and works, but would stain stuff in a sewing environment. WD40 is a great cleaner and solvent, and will break down gummy oil and lube the machine a little while it does it. It is the only thing i know of that will break down old lube but not leave the machine unlubricated while doing it. It is NOT a long term lube. Ever. Btw, wd40 is amazing at taking off sticker glue from surfaces. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Moderator Art Posted November 11, 2015 Moderator Report Posted November 11, 2015 Tinker, We use a combination of 1 gallon ATF and 1 gallon K-1 Kerosene mixed with 1/4 lb lanolin as a gun/fine machine oil. Not only is it superior to other oils, it is way cheaper. For older sewing machines, regular mineral oil works just fine. Note that ATF is pretty much mineral oil and some additives, one of which is color which can be a problem on sewing machines, so there is no little lost when substituting mineral oil for ATF. You can take 2 gallons of the above mix and add one gallon of mineral spirits and one gallon of acetone to make a very good solvent. We need a lot of it to use in our large ultrasonic cleaner (3 or 4 m-16 uppers will fit in it at one time). You need to keep the solvent in a metal can as the acetone will attack some of the plastic bottles (like HDPE), glass is ok too. I have found out that this formula is close to a formula used as a bore cleaner at the Frankford Arsenal in Philadelphia years ago, well, I can attest that it still works. While the above formula is a great penetrating oil, if it won't do the job, try Kroil. For just lubricating a sewing machine, mineral oil will do the job for all but the most extreme situations. Art Quote For heaven's sakes pilgrim, make yourself a strop!
Members dikman Posted November 11, 2015 Members Report Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) I knew my oil comments were bound to get a reaction. Regarding 3 in 1 oil, it's now owned by the WD-40 company and the formulation changed some time ago. It's now basically just a heavy napthenic oil with a tiny bit of naptha (less than 3%) added, no different to many other mineral oils. The term "mineral oil" can also cause some confusion, as most oils (car oils etc.) are termed mineral.There are also pharmaceutical-grade mineral oils, which are obviously different to car oils, and I suspect it's this grade that some members are actually referring to. Ballistol is one, which is widely used by firearms owners and can apparently also be used on cuts and grazes!!!! It is also a water-soluble oil. The newer generation lightweight car oils (0-20W, for instance) could be worth considering. These are designed to be thin and like most car oils to resist forming varnish - if it can do this in a hostile engine environment then it certainly won't happen in a sewing machine. Staining could be an issue, I guess, but that will be possible with virtually anything you use. I didn't mention WD-40, as while it does lubricate it has no long-term properties, as TT pointed out. Art, the mixture you're referring to is generally called Ed's Red by the firearms fraternity (which I suspect you already know?). I make mine without the acetone due to the nasty affect it can have on stock finishes, and use it to clean my muzzleloaders. Looking up the MSDS for oils, and then cross-checking the CAS numbers for the ingredients used, can be most interesting (although time-consuming). That will show what you're really using, and quite often it's different to the impression given by the manufacturers' advertising. Edited November 11, 2015 by dikman Quote Machines wot I have - Singer 51W59; Singer 331K4; Seiko STH-8BLD; Pfaff 335; CB4500. Chinese shoe patcher; Singer 201K (old hand crank)
Moderator Art Posted November 11, 2015 Moderator Report Posted November 11, 2015 Ed's Red, no, maybe Ed hijacked the formula, but it is Frankford Arsenal Formula # 17 I believe and is the bore solvent variant (you have to use the ultrasonic and sometimes a brass patch for lead fouling though). Mineral oil is transparent and colorless and is sold in light and heavy grades. The light grades are often used in sewing machine oil. They sell it at most Drug and big food stores, so if you run out of Dritz oil, there you go, nothing magical about it. Mineral oil and a little perfume is Baby Oil. Because of it's long chain, it is pretty safe stuff. Nevertheless, don't use any car motor oil in your sewing machine, tooooooo many additives some of a negative value. BTW we have occasionally used tractor hydraulic oil in the Formula # 17, Should we then call it Formula #71 or maybe Ed's Green? Art Quote For heaven's sakes pilgrim, make yourself a strop!
Members Colt W Knight Posted November 11, 2015 Members Report Posted November 11, 2015 Glad yall told me about the 3-1 oil Quote
Members MG513 Posted November 12, 2015 Members Report Posted November 12, 2015 I just bought oil from Toledo bob. Lol. Done and done. Thanks for all this input though very informative! I just picked up my machine! Consew 206 rb, no clue what year but great condition. I did not test sew it (I know I know rookie mistake) but the ppl I bought from were pretty up front about everything so I have confidence. Buuuuut the bobbin winder is broke. I didn't know that, the lady didn't really know what the broken off piece went to, and the dad bought it simply to resell. So. Isn't it best to just replace the whole thing? It's cheap right?? Quote
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