What Is The Point Of A Head/round Knife?

[Windrider30]

Ok why under the Good Lord's green earth would you need such a knife? I mean really I use a stanily knife for every thing from 8 to 9 0z down to 2-3 oz leather and i have already had to have stitches because of the stanly knife..with a head knife I would be afraid to lose a finger!! or a hand! So what is the actual point and does it truely come in handy to have such a blade?

[JLSleather]

There is no point on a round knife.

Actually, I'm sure you'll have some folks liniin' up here to tell you all about so many wonderful needs for the things, but I've never owned one. I've made a LOT of stuff over the years without one.

[humperdingle]

I've managed to hold-off buying one, purely because my large handled Stanley does the job - 100 double blades, changed everytime I start a new project, seems plenty sharp right up to 5mm leather.

[RStevenson]

I think the idea is because of the blade shape, it has a lot of different uses from cutting to skiving etc. That being said, I don't use one either.

[Ferg]

I have a large one that is over 60 years old, I bought it new. I also have two others. My favorite is one made by Terry Knipschield. Small with a slightly curved handle. I use it to skive thin leathers. I also have several skivers including a powered one.

Indispensable to me.

ferg

[johnv474]

Traditionally, using a Stanley knife would not have been an option, as razor knives weren't available. For many cuts they work great. The benefit to the round/head knife is its versatility. You can cut a long straight line without a straight edge. You can cut around bends. You can use it like a roller blade to cut without stretching the leather. You can push it straight down through 4 layers of leather. You can skive edges. It takes practice to develop the skill to use it well, but is a multipurpose knife for leatherwork. Virtually anything it can do can be done with some combination of other knives, but with a head/round knife you only have one blade to maintain and don't spend time searching for the others.

[JLSleather]

Yeah, there's that "traditionally" thing. But in terms of actual USEfulness, the utility knife can be "learned" as with any other tool, to do about anything, WITH the advantage of not spending hours sharpening (just swap a new blade in and go), which is why I prefer that route. My judgment, most people who have one -- have one so they can say they have one.

There's nothing wrong with tradition -- each his own. But I'm not getting a round knife to do what I already do without one. I'm also not takin' my wares to the general store on horseback / pack mule

Oh, and much as I admire A. Stohlman's work (STILL), I don't buy tools just because they say "Al" (even if others do).

[robb01]

Rotary and xacto knife here.

[electrathon]

It is like saying what is the use of a pick-up, I have a car (or vice versa). You can survive without one, but once you learn how it is used and why you have a hard time understanding why people are opposed to learning the best way just because they have learned a functional way.

One reason I have witnessed people not liking them is because they buy a crappy soft wont properly sharpen knife. Then they are frustrated that it is a crappy soft wont hold an edge knife. A quality round knife will out cut any box cutter in so many ways. A so-so box cutter will out cut any dull soft crappy round knife.

Edited September 10, 2015 by electrathon

[Thor]

As electrathon says, there's a huge difference from the Tandy and whatever cheap round knife stuff to a proper round knife and if one used a really good round knife once he won't touch the other crap again. There will always be people trying to justify what they are doing and it may even work for what they are doing. Interestingly it's always the same kind of people. And electrathon is right one can use a Passat instead of a pick-up, but you'll notice very soon that the car will be overloaded in no time.

The round knife still serves its purpose and its use must be trained to really muster it. Some people just aren't able to use it right and say you don't need it.

Again for many uses an exacto knife or roller knife is just fine. Learning to use and master the tools of the trade sets the professional apart from the others.

[dirtclod]

I use round and head knives everyday I work. In the past I used the Stanley type knives. But if you learn to use a round of head knife you throw rocks at the Stanley knives.

Edited September 10, 2015 by dirtclod

[zuludog]

I do leatherwork as a hobby and I'm happy enough with a Stanley knife, though I re-sharpen the blades with a fine oilstone and a strop. This reduces the shoulder of the bevel and polishes the blade so tit seems to pass through the leather more smoothly

I don't use a round knife because the Stanley is good enough; I haven't been able to get in enough practice with a round knife; and a good one is expensive.

I also have a home - made skiving knife and a couple of other knives

As mentioned above, a round knife will do just about everything you need with leatherwork. It also used mostly to cut away from you so once you've mastered it, it is safer

I have watched firsthand on a couple of occasions a round knife being used by a professional saddlemaker or leatherworker, and it is absolutely magic. The knife seems to just float around, like an extension of their hands with no effort or mistakes

But you have to be a professional or a very keen amateur to get to that level, and I don't have the time or the patience, so I reckon I've worked up well enough on the Stanley

If you search YouTube there are several videos on the round knife

Look at the way a head knife cuts. A Stanley knife is used at quite a steep angle, and is quite aggressive, such that only the end few millimetres of the blade actually do the cutting. A round knife means that for most of the time the blade cuts along a longer length of the blade edge, and so has a smoother action; you just angle the blade so it cuts more towards the tips for tighter curves, but only when needed. An expert can do all this with an even flowing movement

For this reason I try to keep the handle of my Stanley knife low where possible, which gives me an easier cutting action.

Edited September 10, 2015 by zuludog

[gmace99]

I think electrathon gave a reall good answer. I do not know any professional saddle or bridle maker in the UK who does not have one. I know I could not do without mine.

[Windrider30]

Thanks for the answers all.And Zulu I actualy use more then just the point of the stanely knife I tend to use half the blade for cutting, could simply be because I am left handed but the angle I use I end up using at least half the blade. The other reason I really do like the stanely as mentioned, no sharping needed.

[JLSleather]

I think electrathon gave a reall good answer. I do not know any professional saddle or bridle maker in the UK who does not have one. I know I could not do without mine.

I'm not seeing the "answer" in this case. I don't listen to anybody and everybody, but Aaron has posted enough pictures of good looking leather that his would be one opinion I would at least consider. Plus, his responses tend to be thoughtful (not "yeah, what he said") so even if I don't agree, I at least had that view presented.

But in that line of thought, I could by a Porsche to go to the grocery store - it will get the job done. But so would the $10k Chevy .. just as well and for much less cost and much less maintenance.

But if the original question wasn't what I thought, then I'll ask it myself .. what can you do with a round knife that you couldn't do with something else?

[Art]

For saddle or harness work, the head knife is probably the knife of choice. I learned to use one (actually two) from a lady saddlemaker in Cody, Wy. My go to head knives are replicas of the two I learned on, made by Bill Buchman, though I have gravitated toward another BB knife that is an odd duck head knife.. I haven't made saddles or bridles of or any horsey gear in many years, although fetish gear does follow in that vein. If you are going to use that type of knife, you most definitely have to learn how to sharpen and strop, or get a buffer. So that's a problem for a novice, or even someone doing work on thinner leather; the head knife works fine, but other options are just as good, with nothing near the skill level. The utility knife, aka box cutter is a very useful knife that can be bough in varieties from $2 to $20. Pick one with good solid lockup on the blade. Speaking of blades, Irwin Blue Bi-metal blades are the best, the last longer and strop to deadly sharp. The next most useful is the clicker knife, especially for intricate patterns on thinner leather; 4 oz in my estimation is thinner leather. These have sharpenable and replaceable blades that can be stropped and even sharpened. I like the model with the blue handle as opposed to the wood handle. Terry Knipschield makes a curved detail knife that also works very well. You can get addicted to these things. There is something primal about these things. I have a LOT of knives, way too many to use, in fact, if I started using them now, I wouldn't have to sharpen anything for a year and a half at least. I have several Bob Dozier knives that are my son's go to head knives. These are great knives made of D2 and I love them too, when I can find them.

Best head knives in my opinion:

Bill Buchman

Bob Dozier

Terry Knipschield (I don't have one of his head knives, but his smaller stuff is amazing, I'll buy one some day and let everyone know)

Best value for money:

Utility knife, Irwin Blue Blades, and a strop or buffer

Scalpels (this is a whole nother subject but of value)

Art

[Art]

But in that line of thought, I could by a Porsche to go to the grocery store - it will get the job done. But so would the $10k Chevy .. just as well and for much less cost and much less maintenance.

Oh, but the grin on your face when you hit the checkout counter and realize how you are getting home.

Art

[electrathon]

I'm not seeing the "answer" in this case. I don't listen to anybody and everybody, but Aaron has posted enough pictures of good looking leather that his would be one opinion I would at least consider. Plus, his responses tend to be thoughtful (not "yeah, what he said") so even if I don't agree, I at least had that view presented.

But in that line of thought, I could by a Porsche to go to the grocery store - it will get the job done. But so would the $10k Chevy .. just as well and for much less cost and much less maintenance.

But if the original question wasn't what I thought, then I'll ask it myself .. what can you do with a round knife that you couldn't do with something else?

Just to be clear, I am not saying that a round knife is the only tool to cut leather with. It just works better much of the time. I personally own other kinds of knives, I use many/most of them. Probably not an exaggeration to say the I own them all. I am a tool guy. With that said, a round knife can likely be replaced with other kinds of knives at almost any point. Just that a round knife will often do the job better than others in the proper application. A dull round knife will just leave people wondering why anyone wants to use a round knife in the first place.

The car/grocery store analysis is a great one, but I think you use the improper cars in the comparison: But in that line of thought, I could by a Honda to go to the grocery store - it will get the job done. But so would a Yugo just as well and for much less cost and much more maintenance. Quality round knives require very little to keep them sharp. Box cutters need to be sharpened right out of the box (it you want them really sharp) and require constant touching up to keep them sharp. As a comparison, when I personally am saying sharp, I am not referring to the sort of sharp of a box cutter. I am referring to the push down gently on your knife and realize you cut through the leather and wedged it into your cutting board sharp.

[RStevenson]

It should be noted that when you use a stanley knife, x-acto or other razor blade type you are dragging or pulling it through the leather. When you use a rotary knife or a round knife you can shear the leather with a downward-rotaring force that results in much cleaner cuts.

[Trox]

A good tool is at least 50 % of the jobb. A Stanley knife will cut leather but without precision. If you want to be a better leather worker, step it up and learn to master the round/head knife.

Tor

[terrypen]

I do not have one yet, but I am going to get one. The reason being, after watching a video from Springfield Leather. They appear to have the ability to cut fairly tight curves, along with long flowing curves with ease. I don't think you'd do it quite as easy with a razor knife.

The second big reason is skiving, and that is a huge one for me. The video shows Denny skiving a piece of leather and does it while making it look easy!

The video is a bit long, but I think it points out the questions asked quite well.

https://youtu.be/8ARqjhTGYR8

Terry

[JLSleather]

Welcome to 2015... it "must" be good - there's a video about it!

Yeah, think that's another sales pitch I'm just going to go on around. Everything on my site -- and 100 times more --- all done without a round blade, or head knife, whatchacallit. Good news... those who like 'em, can take the last one on the shelf.. don't wait for me!

I'll tell a short story, which I think (still) is what is going on here. It's for my benefit, so if there's anything in someone's mind that thinks I'm trying to persuade you... I'm not. Do whatever you like. So then ...

I had an ugly truck. I mean, UG LEE. It was once white,but the white paint had become chalky and dull. And then it got hit in the driver door, so I replaced that with a different door, which was flat black. Somewhere along the line, I'd paint the whole thing.

But there was a snow blade complete with mount for that exact truck for $1k (normally closer to $5k) so I put it on there. Now I had a dull white truck with flat black door (one) and black plow mount with yellow blade (Meyer). OH, yeah,.. and I put a 6" x 1/2" thick mild steel bar scraper on the blade instead of the semi-hardened shiny one that says "meyer" on it (free to me, versus about $150). Didn't even paint the scraper bar... just bare steel.

And it was a 4-on-the-floor, so I fabbed an aluminum mount so I could put the plow controls permanently on the shifter - no need to move my hand off the shifter OR the controls. Well, until it was time for coffee and a convenience store girl.

SO.. one of those girl / coffee stops, the kid with the shiny new truck with all the pretty lights pulls in to plow the parking lot of the station. He's a jerk, but his Dad is a good man, so I tolerate the goof. In what appeared to be an attempt to impress the girlie, he went on a bit about that truck (perhaps a "real" man would replace that thing). He didn't go too far, since he knew we have other trucks -- and to him it's apparently all about appearances. Personally don't care, so I drive the ugly one (which is also quite good for carrying firewood and other things that would 'ding' a shiny truck).

At some point, I told him I'd help him plow the rest of the night for free. All he had to do is go up a few blocks to that big parking lot, look at the snow all piled up on one end, and tell me WHICH truck or trucks had plowed that lot - and I'd work for him all night long for nuthin'.

Danged if he couldn't tell WHICH truck(s) did that.. all you could see was a clear parking lot with a big wall of snow all on one end.

And it seems were here again. Round knives. Head knives. French edgers. More videos (like we need more videos ). I actually prefer to see the LEATHER. Same type of thing .... look at the leather, and tell me what it was cut with. If you can't tell, then perhaps it doesn't matter.

Edited September 11, 2015 by JLSleather

[chiefjason]

Yeah, there's that "traditionally" thing. But in terms of actual USEfulness, the utility knife can be "learned" as with any other tool, to do about anything, WITH the advantage of not spending hours sharpening (just swap a new blade in and go), which is why I prefer that route. My judgment, most people who have one -- have one so they can say they have one.

There's nothing wrong with tradition -- each his own. But I'm not getting a round knife to do what I already do without one. I'm also not takin' my wares to the general store on horseback / pack mule

Oh, and much as I admire A. Stohlman's work (STILL), I don't buy tools just because they say "Al" (even if others do).

I've used both. Started with a utility knife because I had one around. Saved up an bought a couple head knives and will not go back. I can correct a few things in the above. I don't spend hours sharpening. I strop the knife on a couple different surfaces before I start cutting. If I'm cutting a lot I'll strop mid project. But I did that with utility blades anyway. Because I never found blades that were sharp enough to drop and go. And I can assure you, my round knives are sharper than any utility blades I got in the store.

Don't like them? No problem. Don't ever want to spend the money? No problem. But you are not saving time, and I'm not wasting time because of the difference in blades. Because for me the time spent stropping my round knife is saved by not having to clean up the edges as much as I had to with utility knives.

For me, they were one of the best investments I made in hand tools. I can cut my patterns far easier with them than I ever could with a utility blade. Curves are where they really shine. And off board cutting with them is a handy thing. Roll cutting straight edges without a straight edge is handy too. They also suit my personal style of holster making better. I can glue a holster together, then use the round knives to trim both pieces of glued leather to the shape I want. Did that with a single clip IWB today. Hung the ear off the table and trimmed it down to the width I wanted it. It would take me 3-4 passes with a utility blade and much more risk of miscutting something.

[JLSleather]

Oh, yeah... this may be better for some .. though same point.

Guy wants to blow insulation in the walls of his house, finds out he needs holes in the wall between each wall stud.

So he goes to the hardware store, where the kid tells him he needs a drill. Here's one.. $19. BUT, this other one is variable speed, which is better... $29. Oh, wait.. this one is reversible and variable.. $49. And this 'real man' version also adds hammer-drill function - $99.

Finally, the guy has so much "information", he tries to think back about what he really needs. And at this point, most would say all he really needs is the "cheap" $19 straight forward drill. But that's not true.. what he really needs is holes in his wall -- and the drill is just one way to get that done. In the end the drywall would be patched leaving no evidence of what was used to make the holes. What is important is the finished appearance of the wall.

[Thor]

Trying to back up a weak position with even weaker arguments isn't very helpful. One could play golf with a baseball bat, but where in the world would one do that? And just to show you how poor the arguments are... American drivers think they know driving until they come to Germany and realize they don't. It's just as poor...

I guess we can all agree that certain jobs require certain tools even though some tools may give you a satisfactory result as well. I agree that for the stuff Jeff is making no special tools are needed. In fact for what he's are making a strap cutter, a box cutter and maybe a few clicker dies would be sufficient cutting tools (not considering the SK as a special cutting tool).

I'm using a custom made round knife and wouldn't want to use my box knife anymore, even though I did use it permanently before that. There will always be arguments for and against certain tools. The round knife has to be really bad as it is being used for centuries already...

Since I don't like that car/truck sample, here's my take: One can build a log home with an ax only, but if one knows how to use a chainsaw for the same job, why wouldn't one do so? Replace the ax with a box knife and the chainsaw with a round knife.

For certain tasks the box cutter's blade is just too unstable and is like a nutshell on the ocean. It may not be visible right away or for the inexperienced person not at all, but the mistakes will be there. If one wants a clean edge, the first step is a very clean cut and this is best done with a good round knife. With the one I'm using I'm just rounding the edges, some quick burnishing and done. When I was using the box cutter I had to sand a lot, which is not what I wont.

Being fed up with all the Tandy stuff, I should say that I wouldn't consider the Stohlman knives a very good quality. They are ok.

A really good knife will go through leather like butter and real muscle force will not be needed. This is why you're able to make good turns just on the flow and the ones which really mastered the tool will think twice before buying a clicker die for the job unless they are getting into mass-production.

The use and knowledge about professional tools will show in ones work and so does the use of cheap tools even though the persons don't want to hear that.