Cutting Leather With Laser Questions

[pillpusher]

Hey everyone,

I work in a maker-space and have access to laser cutters. I was planning on making acrylic templates for some of my designs, but I am also wondering about using the laser to cut the leather pieces out directly.

I know that the laser chars the edges but are they still able to be finished and burnished? Is the smell really that bad? I mostly use vegetable tanned leather of Horween Chromexcel, horeside, etc.

Thanks

[thunter9]

LOL

[pillpusher]

thank you for your most helpful reply.

[Colt W Knight]

Kind of a burned dog hair smell. I would think you would want to setup an exhaust fan. If you get veg tan leather hot it will get hard, and too much heat will make it shink/shivel- but I don't think a laser cutter would do that like drying it in an oven. If the char is too bad, you can always sand it away and burnish as normal. I would think edge cote would work great on the slightly charred leather too

[simontuntelder]

Tons of companies are doing it - a lot of them are even adding the stitch holes. It makes sense doing it if you have very intricate patterns or if you're doing great volumes.

I would probably never do it myself. I have too much respect for history and the craft, but if I was all about making money, I would definitely do it.

[nrk]

Hey everyone,

I work in a maker-space and have access to laser cutters. I was planning on making acrylic templates for some of my designs, but I am also wondering about using the laser to cut the leather pieces out directly.

I know that the laser chars the edges but are they still able to be finished and burnished? Is the smell really that bad? I mostly use vegetable tanned leather of Horween Chromexcel, horeside, etc.

Thanks

why do you ask?!

go and do some. at least you will get experience ))

that what i would do if have this chance

don't forget to share results with tons of photos ))))

Edited March 17, 2016 by nrk

[mtroyalguy]

I paid for a laser cutter to cut some intricate edge work on a couple of pieces I did. I was told it smells a bit, but his system was vented already, and took multiple passes. The edges were black and there was a little soot along the edges but the soot wiped off easily. Other than being black (which didn't matter because I was dyeing them black) the edges were no different than hand cut edges. I had no shrinkage or warping.

[Colt W Knight]

Tons of companies are doing it - a lot of them are even adding the stitch holes. It makes sense doing it if you have very intricate patterns or if you're doing great volumes.

I would probably never do it myself. I have too much respect for history and the craft, but if I was all about making money, I would definitely do it.

What is the cut off date for technology for respecting the history of the craft?

[simontuntelder]

What is the cut off date for technology for respecting the history of the craft?

Interesting question and I don't have an answer for it.

I guess it's a personal thing. I've always been into old stuff - like vintage clothes for instance. And I can appreciate goretex, but I prefer waxed cotton.

[electrathon]

What is the cut off date for technology for respecting the history of the craft?

I thought this same thing I understand that the only reason why the old timers did things the old way was because they did not have the tools that we now have.

[pillpusher]

thanks for the replies!

I understand having respect for the old way of doing things. I mainly intend to use it to make acrylic templates at first, but I wanted to get some feedback from those who have cut leather with a laser too. I'm told that it's possible to cut stitching holes on an angle similar to using a pricking iron which I think sounds much more appealing than the round holes that I have seen before.

Anyways, I signed up for an introductory class next month so that I will be able to rent the machine when I want to. I will post pics with what I come up with!

[nrk]

thanks for the replies!

I understand having respect for the old way of doing things. I mainly intend to use it to make acrylic templates at first, but I wanted to get some feedback from those who have cut leather with a laser too. I'm told that it's possible to cut stitching holes on an angle similar to using a pricking iron which I think sounds much more appealing than the round holes that I have seen before.

Anyways, I signed up for an introductory class next month so that I will be able to rent the machine when I want to. I will post pics with what I come up with!

wish you good luck

[NVLeatherWorx]

Caught a local "hobby crafter" using a laser to do his design work (florals, etc.) and then calling it hand-carved and tooled, big mistake around here. In my area we have very few leather workers and most of us have been doing it for a very long time and every one of us is a learned student of the old school ways which leather was meant to be worked in; technology only gives birth to the dark side of the force and the bulk of those who live by it are out for only one thing - PROFIT, PROFIT, PROFIT! There are technological advancements in every trade or market that have a place but when you find the "new generation" using it to create things and lying about what they really are and how they were made, it has gone too far. The leather crafting trade is an art and it is one that requires skill, knowledge, blood, sweat, and tears to master, then you can call yourself a leather craftsman and you can say that you made something by hand, not before then. There is no cutoff date as asked above; this trade is to be respected by all who enter into it or it will surely dye and become nothing more than another relic of a once proud class of craftsmen who had protected the trade. Making templates is one thing, go for it, but once you cross the line where you rely on the technology for everything, you are doing nothing more than perpetuating the continued declined of skill, knowledge, and true craftsmanship that is killing our Nation; isn't it bad enough that our children are not taught to be inspired anymore? It all starts with thinking like "what is the cutoff date?" and the like.

[cjmt]

I've been thinking about the various anti technology and respect for craft comments in this thread. I think we can be too puritanical. I'm sure the craft has always been like this, some for and some against technology. Ultimately it will be used though. What's a plough gauge or a round knife or a pricking iron if not a device to make a hard job easy? Should we only use a straight knife, a scratch awl and some sinew to make things?

Cutting a shape is something a human should be able to do, but a machine can do better, if well directed by a human. Once the basic test of proving they can do it by hand has been passed I'm not sure I can see the harm in concentrating on the areas a human does best, like stitching, edge finishing etc.

Re tooling, not my thing. Miss description should always get you hung by your toes over some crocodiles but ignoring that is laser engraving not just a step beyond craft tools? Given the grain is charred and horrible it's a totally different thing than tooling surely?

We as hand makers should concentrate on making sure our hand work is so good we don't need to worry that amatures with lasers steal our sales. If we can't do better work by hand, why are we doing it by hand? I don't think respect for tradition is a god enough reason, personally. I say this as someone who doesn't even own a sewing machine so I am firmly on the side of hand work, but it will only survive if we keep it relevant, just being a Luddite just means the machines will win by default

All IMO..

Charlie

[monkeytamer]

I wanted to add some info for the orignal poster. I have my work space in a makerspace as well which has several laser cutters and 3 printers.

In regard to cutting veg tan ( the stock I have is un dyed). You need to spend some time playing with your power settings and speed settings (mm/sec). Too little power with high speed wont cut anything, and on the flip side too much power on too slow of a speed will char and ruin the leather. Take the time to find the best settings for each thickness of leather you will be using. Ideally, you want to go with a single pass as multiple passes will likely cause more charring then is absolutely necessary. With the right settings there will be a very small charring on the edge that was cut, but a wet paper towel and a very light sand will remove everything leaving you with a clean precision cut piece. After that if you bevel and dye anyways there will be no difference at all in the cut.

About chrome tan - my results have been mixed. Too much power can burn or alter the finish of the leather. At the same time, with the right setting and the above steps to remove the char it can be a viable option as well.

Engraving -  I havent too much experience with this so i cant contribute that but from my understanding it would not be the same as tooling or even using stamps. The laser will burn away the leather to create the pattern. 

Stitching holes - doing this has crossed my mind, but I like using my irons too much to really go with it. Perhaps in the future ill give a try to marking the stitching as an alternative to using a stitching iron, but outside of mass producing a item I would prefer the hand touch that goes with a iron.

Smell - Cutting leather will create a burnt hair smell. You wont win any friends at the makerspace with that unless you keep the machine closed and vented until the smoke has cleared.

One of the advantages I have found with using the laser cutter is that it allows you to design and create your projects in Illustrator or Inkscape and see how everything looks and will go together before you even touch leather. When you are in a place like where I am where every bit of leather has to be imported from abroad it makes for much less wastage. Additionally, when creating large batches of blanks you can be sure that the accuracy is down to the mm because everything is computer controlled. Finally, the possibilities to have an entire library of designs and products on your computer that you can cut on demand is quite a benefit if you are producing leather goods in a small business setting. This is combined with the ability to make them incredibly intricate as well.

I understand some of the criticism about taking away the hand make aspect of cutting, but I would like to echo Charlie's statement that the process of cutting using more and more specialized tools is simply human nature. Who decides at what point progression of tools stops. I can say that spending hours working on a pattern, and more importantly learning how to use the design software to do it is no picnic and a specialized skill in and of itself. There is definitly a human hand in the entire process. That being said I only stitch by hand which is something that I enjoy immensely and I am happier to have more time to spend on creasing, marking, and stitching once the leather has been cut. I hope one day to study under a master and continue my leather education to do this professionally, but until then I am self taught and try to use any tools that will produce a beautiful end result.

Just my 2 cents on the subject as someone who started their leather journey in a makerspace.....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by monkeytamer

[hamijoh]

Tell me what is the functional difference between a clicker and a laser cutter when it comes to tradition? In my opinion the laser cutter can bring production like capabilities to the every-man. It will be a while before laser cutting will be affordable to everyone, but already Glowforge is at or less than a clicker, and you don't pay $200 to $400 for a die. There are certainly advantages/disadvantages to both. Black River Laser has been providing laser cut templates for leather working for a while now, seems like a new twist on tapping off a design...

[kiwican]

On 3/17/2016 at 3:20 PM, Colt W Knight said:

What is the cut off date for technology for respecting the history of the craft?

Great point

[electrathon]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 0:20 PM, Colt W Knight said:

What is the cut off date for technology for respecting the history of the craft?

I believe the cut off date is whatever keeps the old timers from having to learn new technology.  Every person that makes the comment that you should not use new technology is using what was new technology when they learned it (50 years or so ago).  At that time in history the same argument could have been used that they were bastardizing the craft by not doing it how it was done 100 years ago, or 200 years or so on.  There is a reason that the masters that do work today have superior work than the masters did in 1940.

[Red Cent]

Reminds of the SASS argument. We dress as if we live in the 1870s. We are required to use guns patented on or before 1899 (or close to it). Certain calibers are required.

But we use gun carts that have places for battery fans. Ice coolers with soft drinks and water. Umbrellas affixed to the cart. And.............

I got into leather making for the satisfaction of creating a product that meets my standards. I really don't want to have the pressure of loads of customers. As a retired banker, I have had enough of pressure for a lifetime. Most of my stuff is built for the speed demons but I do own a copy of Packin' Iron. I certainly appreciate all of the leather makers of the past. However, when I enter my shop I turn on a bunch of lights with a switch. My burnisher is motorized. My belt sander is also. Dremel tool is handy. Drill press is also. Propane torch. Heat gun......................................

You cannot get away from it. Gallatin, Meanea and Collins did very functional and beautiful work but they did it without the modern conveniences.

 

[electrathon]

Similar to this topic over on a shoe forum I am a member of the leader of the forum bashes anyone who makes "handmade" shoes and uses a sewing machine to sew on the soles as not making handmade (bespoke is a more correct word) shoes.  I watched him slam people for over a year and one day a discussion on uppers came around.  Turns out he machine sews uppers, then hand sews the soles because it would be too difficult to sew the uppers by hand and get a quality shoe.  The hypocrisy is the same is this discussion.  As stated above, you use electric lights, a furnace, sanders and etc.  As we move forward in society we have modern equipment.  The only reason the old timers did not use what we have is because it was not inverted, or available, yet.

[Ferg]

Electrathon,

 

I agree with you.

It has been 63 years since I first picked up a leather tool or leather to make something. I laced everything I made, never dreamed of a sewing machine although I had a friend in the parachute loft sew heavy leather soles on slippers or moccasins I made.

I love to sew/stitch by hand, arthritis does not allow much of that anymore. I love my three sewing machines although they can drive you bonkers some times. Folks on this forum do  fabulous work by hand and with machinery. I have a knife for my large CNC machine that I can cut patterns or the leather pieces for a project. That will give you goose bumps to watch. lol  Evolution pertains to all walks of life. If you  like doing the craft the old ways, have at it. Personally, I like a mixture of all.

Ferg

[electrathon]

Ferg,

It is good to have you, as one of the senior members of leatherworking, understand this.  It is amazing how many don't. 

My Dad started doing leather back in high school in the 1950's.  He does great work.  Has not really learned anything new about leather since then.  He even gave me his old patterns that he has saved (big pile, yea).  A little while ago he saw some of my work and asked me to teach him how I tool.  His main comment was that he had never seen some of the tools that I have.  I have much respect for the talent and ability that my Dad has, much of my talent came from him (and my Grandfather too).   I was honored to be a part of the circle of teaching and learning.

Aaron

[Colt W Knight]

21 hours ago, electrathon said:

I believe the cut off date is whatever keeps the old timers from having to learn new technology.  Every person that makes the comment that you should not use new technology is using what was new technology when they learned it (50 years or so ago).  At that time in history the same argument could have been used that they were bastardizing the craft by not doing it how it was done 100 years ago, or 200 years or so on.  There is a reason that the masters that do work today have superior work than the masters did in 1940.

Yup, I don't know how doing stuff the same way as they have been doing inspiresome creativity. There are some members on this forum that are just cranky old guys who think only their way is the right way. 

[LumpenDoodle2]

Wonder if the folk who used to cut leather with flints criticised the ones using those new fangled bronze knives.

Nothing wrong with purely hand made using old techniques , hand made with modern tools, or machine made.   As long as you don't try to claim otherwise to a customer.

[AyeJay]

I get  a bit of a kick out of using new technology within a traditional framework. I love seeing Japanese fashion labels using tech fabrics on traditionally styles garments, denim brands making super heavy denim on modern looms with traditional details, shoe brands using fancy sole technology for a little extra comfort. It's your own line to draw. Should we discuss techniques and take advice online? That's pretty new-fangled. Did they cut credit card slots in wallets 100 years ago? Do what keeps you happy I guess, just don't stress on the crew who choose to do it some other way. Putting too many rules on things only stifles creativity, that's how I look at it. Without creativity you're essentially a human laser cutter, just churning out copies... I'm just typing my thoughts now

I have a mate with an industrial laser cutter in his shed (I have no idea why). I'm heading over next weekend to give it a go. I've used it for work related things in the past, cutting signage, but never done any leather so keen to see how it goes. I'll post some photos to show how it went