Weaver Leather Supply

[BOB BRENNER]

Got an interesting letter from Weaver today.  As of April 1, 2016 if your do not buy $1,200.00 in 2016 you will lose your wholesale account.  You will be able to buy at retail or you can buy a wholesale membership for $200.00 that is non-refundable. Can you say super Tandy?

[OLDNSLOW]

Shesh I just opened my account with them in the past few days and they come out with that, I haven't got the letter yet but is still blows.

[BruceGibson]

I got the same letter.  It didn't impress me much.  I got the impression they've convinced themselves they're the only show in town.  That form letter and their "$1,200.00" annual minimum was a stupid move.  The $200 membership alternative ain't happening.  I said as much on their facebook page.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Yes, I too got that letter.  Now while I don't buy everything from them, I do use them quite a bit since they are just down the road, so to speak, and if I order it today, it usually is here in two days, and; I probably buy that much from them a year easily.  However that is still a slap in the face.  They seem to be going down the same road as Tandy.  For sure I will not buy a wholesale club membership, Sorry state of affairs. Perhaps the guy that is on this sight that works for them, will get the message back to them.  Just sayin'.

Bob

[Roq]

Motion to have Weaver give all members of leatherworker.net a free wholesale account

[horselady21]

Same here. I don't buy that much from them. When I was doing all kangaroo leather lace braiding, they were the only place I bought from, since at the time, I didn't know of any other supplier I could buy from wholesale. Now that I don't do roo any more, there are many more options out there.

 

Yeah, their shipping is fast, service is very friendly, and quality is great, but there are a few things that they don't carry that I do use quite a bit now, and, to tell the truth, it seems like the only place that carries 100% of what I need is Springfield Leather. I just ordered my first hide from them, and was amazed at the difference between what I got from Tandy and what I got from them. SO don't think I will be returning to Weaver.

I think Weaver will feel the effect of letting down us "little guys". We add up.

[LilRay]

They're not looking to lose any accounts,  they're banking on forcing you to pay retail and you buying from them anyway. They're hoping that their profit will rise even losing a few wholesale customers from the additional profits  that they make on retail.

 

I have one of their burning shoes that I bought used, and I never would have paid new. New price on the item was way too expensive. Just my take. 

[BruceGibson]

I stopped ordering leather from them last year.  The quality really slipped on their Hermann Oak TR, which is all they offer.  Up until last year I was real happy with them.  The $1,200 annual minimum was an easy hurdle to clear.  In my case, I started having orders short on little items, like buckles and conchos.  The leather I was getting was dirty, and the last two gallon cans of Barge were crushed because the packing was half-assed.  They've always been great about fixing errors, they just started making more of 'em.  Then came this asinine "$1,200 form letter."  

On the bright side, I discovered Montana Leather (awesome folks), Springfield Leather, and Panhandle Leather over in Texas.  I've gotten some great product from HideHouse in California, and I'll give Ohio Travel Bag a try.  

I'll keep my Weaver account for now, but they no longer get the 90% of my business they used to.  Lately, it's been 0%.  I get better service, better quality, and better pricing most everywhere else.  Weaver's gotten a little too Walmart for my taste. 

[tomt]

Yea I got  one of these letters to  I think  this is bs to

[Historicalbeltworks]

I have yet to receive a letter, I wish I would, I'd like to know exactly what the heck is going on.  As for me, I do buy a lot from them, maybe it's why I have not received a letter.  But I also have to agree with Bruce on a couple issues, regardless of a letter.  Their quality, in the leather department is slipping.  Now that might not be fair, they are not a tanner, so perhaps I should be complaining about Hermann Oak.  However, they are ultimately responsible for what leaves their warehouse.  Sizing has been short, consistency in thickness has been really off, shape and usability has been horrible at times.  Heck I've gotten better hides from the discount "branded"  imported hides they sell than the "top of the line" Hermann Oak leather.  Now I've always liked their customer service, but in this economy price dictates more than it used to.

I am going to begin a serious shopping around for better leather.  

[keplerts]

I work part time at a Harness shop / farm supply store.  They spend $10,000 or more a year at Weaver and they got the same letter as I did. So It doesn't seem to be base on passed years sales.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

For all of you that do order from Weaver, whether or not it is a lot, be sure to verify that they have it logged to your account/name .  I checked today on line web to see just how much I have spent with them this year, just for kicks, and found that they only had my latest order listed in the website under my account.  Need to get that rectified if they are going to require minimum spending level to qualify for wholesale pricing!

Bob

[Sonydaze]

All of my individual invoices from Weaver exceed the $1200 annual minimum, so this change makes no difference for me. However, I did receive the letter.

Perhaps they are trying to balance pricing with costs of servicing accounts?  I know that with my business, the time/material costs of invoicing, packaging and shipping a $50 order is close to the same as for a $500 order.  I understand how this is not good news if you don't meet their annual minimum, but I did notice that the $200 fee is a one time charge....not annual.  

While the $200 fee may sound like Tandy, I don't see it that way.  Tandy has positioned itself to be attractive to new(er) diy customers.... it has gotten very unattractive for my business and my purchasing from Tandy has almost dried up. I only purchase occasional items out of convenience.  In my opinion, Weaver seems to be trying to protect their pricing to stay attractive to larger customers.  Good or bad would depend on your own perspective?

The good news in the letter is that as of this past April 1st, they have reduced some prices and shipping costs.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I guess I have somewhat the same perspective on this as Sonydaze.  $1200 doesn't take to long to spend when you start buying hardware and leather.  If you're smaller than that, maybe you SHOULDN'T be buying wholesale. When I started out I think there was a $200 minimum first order. Believe me, I scraped to get that $200 together.  There has to be a line between legitimate businesses and hobby people trying to buy wholesale.  How is it any different than Hermann Oak having a ten side minimum?  It's not like Weaver doesn't offer their products at a retail price for those that can't qualify for wholesale. Every other industry in the world operates like that, folks; there's wholesale and there's retail.  If you're not in business then you're a consumer and you pay retail.  If I want to buy a new pickup (which isn't going to happen for a long time) I have to go through a dealer. I can't just go to Ford Motor Company and say "Hey guys, I want a new $60,000 pickup at wholesale price."  

 

[Ken Nelson]

Quote

Weaver has not been competitive on a wholesale scale for a long time. I have been buying less and less from them the last 10 years.   They have no loyalty.  They change thread suppliers on  a regular basis, never know what you will get in that department.  Some of their products are reasonably priced but many aren't. There is a reason I buy less than 20% of what I once did from them.   Most of the serious builders I know buy a little stuff from Weaver but not much.   Try Walsall Hardware,  Panhandle Leather,  Hide and Leather house,  Thoroughbred Leather,  Quality Mfg. for Superior Buckles,   Ranch2arena for the Watt hardware.  I think you will find Weaver is a handy place to get a lot of stuff but is not a good wholesale supplier for the really serious builder, rather you build  Saddles, boots, harness, gun leather or whatever.   Kind of like; "When was the last time you saw a professional saddle maker shopping in Tandy for his material"   LOL.     My opinion,   Weaver is above Tandy but way below the other outfits I mentioned.   They probably want to eliminate customers like me and I really don't care because I can live without them too.    They should be figuring out why a lot of makers buy less and less from them. Just my opinion and I hope I didn't step on too many toes.   Ken

 

[OLDNSLOW]

ken, you mention thoroughbred they are about a 2.5 hour drive for me and not open on Saturdays so I was wondering if it worth the drive to go there and take a lookasee, are their top leathers better or as good to what Weaver sells that being H O and some import stuff?

Thanks in Advance.

O n S

[Ken Nelson]

The HO I get from Panhandle is some better than the last couple of orders I got from Thoroughbred, which a customer of mine had me order.  However, I saw  2 orders of HO from Weaver last fall and was amazed at how poor it was.   I think Weaver sent out some of the poorest grade HO has.   Their tannery run is higher than Panhandle's # 1.   Wickett & Craig # 1 is cheaper than Weaver is on HO, tannery run.    AND Weaver wonders why wholesale customers are buying less!    Hope this helps.   Ken

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I'll tell you why I buy a lot from Weaver. They have a lot. When I started out I thought I was going to be a smart shopper and buy this-n-that from a dozen different places all over the country to get the best deal.  The freight kills ya. I have about 3 harness hardware suppliers. Each one of them carries something that the others don't. I do a wide variety of work in my shop, from a custom mini donkey harness to a running W surcingle to custom saddles, plus all associated repair work.  And I've thought the  thread is very consistent and is the only thread I can run in some of my machines. I've had more trouble with some of the hardware not being consistent.  If I can get everything I need in one place on any given order (I'm ordering about every ten days this time of year) I might pay a little more for some items, but I'm in the middle of the country and freight is hellish high no matter who I buy from. If I need a couple fill-in sides of leather and a substantial hardware order, the leather will likely put me over the $1000 mark and I get everything quite a bit cheaper. It wouldn't make me a very smart shopper to save a few bucks per side of leather and get it somewhere else and then pay the top price tier on $700 worth of hardware. Another reason, convenience. Some of my other suppliers are Amish. No phone in the shop, you have to leave a message. Then they call you back and I'm on the phone with a customer so I can't answer. Back and forth we go. Or you mail them a letter. Takes a few days to get there. Takes a week to get the product. If I have the time to wait, no big deal. I don't always have the time to wait. If I call Weaver Mon morning, I'll have that order before the end of the week, I've even had it by Wed, which is unbelievable considering they are in Ohio and I'm in SD.  It's typically hassle-free.  Not to say that I haven't had issues with Weaver, because I have. But they do try to rectify a situation. When I have a large harness hardware order, consisting of that only, I generally order from a different supplier, But there are a few things that Weaver has that the others don't.  I used to buy very little from Weaver, and then they bought out my main harness hardware supplier. I think I shed real tears because I knew that was not a good thing. But, that's the way it goes and I can't do a thing about it.  I do think their offering the wholesale status for a one-time fee of $200 is cheesy. That does instantly scream Tandy to me. But it boils down to the fact that I need ALL my suppliers and until I find a better option, I'll likely keep ordering from Weaver. I'm open to suggestions.

[Ken Nelson]

What you are saying is true and everyone should use whatever supplier works for them.  I like the hardware from Weaver and they are reasonable on it.  I quit buying leather from them 6 years ago.   I was having issues with them on 3 out of 4 orders on leather.   Panhandle in 7 years,  not one bad hide.    Thoroughbred  not one bad hide in about 8 or 9 orders.  Hide house,  pretty good luck with them.   I feel that if Weaver is going to make a big deal about the quantity of product a maker buys to keep his or her wholesale status,  they need to get really competitive on some of the things they aren't.  But that is just my opinion.  Ken

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I do agree with that Ken. I've never bought from Panhandle. I generally buy only fill-in leather from Weaver as a rule, and I never know what I'm going to get for orders, so retrospectively, if I'd known 6 months ago what I know today, I'd have ordered 9/11 russet harness leather from HO instead of a couple sides at a time from Weaver. But there's been a time when I ordered 6 sides of it from HO and kept it some of it around for years. So sometimes ya just don't know. I just got 15 sides from Wickett a couple weeks ago. And there's been a whole lot of negative feedback about them in the recent past, but I've only had time to open one bundle. I do know I won't buy any more oiled latigo from them. Just tried one sample side of that and I don't like it at all. This may be a discussion for a new thread, but who in the heck has a good latigo for equine applications??

[LilRay]

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

I guess I have somewhat the same perspective on this as Sonydaze.  $1200 doesn't take to long to spend when you start buying hardware and leather.  If you're smaller than that, maybe you SHOULDN'T be buying wholesale. When I started out I think there was a $200 minimum first order. Believe me, I scraped to get that $200 together.  There has to be a line between legitimate businesses and hobby people trying to buy wholesale.  How is it any different than Hermann Oak having a ten side minimum?  It's not like Weaver doesn't offer their products at a retail price for those that can't qualify for wholesale. Every other industry in the world operates like that, folks; there's wholesale and there's retail.  If you're not in business then you're a consumer and you pay retail.  If I want to buy a new pickup (which isn't going to happen for a long time) I have to go through a dealer. I can't just go to Ford Motor Company and say "Hey guys, I want a new $60,000 pickup at wholesale price."  

 

Look at it this way, if you ARE a Ford dealer,  Ford has just mailed you a letter stating that in order to sell their trucks,  you have to sell a minimum of 10 trucks per month. Otherwise you'll be limited to one truck per month.  But you can have as many of our cars as you want. 

 

It's not a wholesale vs retail thing to me, it's a customer service thing to me. 

[Ken Nelson]

People like me are not retailing the products we purchase from Weaver.  We buy at wholesale to build our product.  They are, in my opinion, trying to force ,me to make them one of my main suppliers or pay retail.   They are not competitive on some of their product.   They charge for pulling items and packaging them. I took a couple of boxes to my neighbor next door 3 years ago, who was a FedEx pickup and found out 40% of the shipping was packaging and  processing on those two boxes.   Most of my suppliers do not do this. they may charge for the box they ship in but Panhandle  stands the box and if you order large amounts from Panhandle they will usually absorb the shipping.   They work at getting and keeping your business.    They are not the cheapest on a lot of things but for quality, honesty and fast shipping,  they are hard to beat.  They have really good Latigo by the way.      Building saddles is a competitive  business.  You have to strive to control your overhead or you cannot compete.  It has to be very high quality materials, built very well if you are going to build for the kind of clientele I build for.  These large production shops get price breaks most leatherworkers would be amazed at.  

By the way,   Ford, John Deere and most of the major automobile and farm equipment have closed most of the smaller dealers down.  These super stores have nearly done away with customer service for the most part, at least in my part of the world.   I doubt  Weaver is the main supplier for production companies.  They buy direct from the source, just like Weaver does.  Price a pallet of Skirting leather at any of the 3 major tanneries.  About half what a 10 side roll will cost.   Just my 2 cents worth

 

 

[Historicalbeltworks]

" These large production shops get price breaks most leatherworkers would be amazed at."

I dream of those kind of things   How I miss the days of $2 buck a foot latigo, doesn't seem that long ago.  Still I have bought hides straight from Hermann Oak, 30-40 at a time, and the price break was so little compared to buying them from Weaver or Panhandle, I have always wondered how those companies make any money reselling the Hermann Oak hides.  I would be curious to see the pallet pricing if I knew where to find it.

On another note:  You are totally right Ken that "You have to strive to control your overhead"  It was why I was concerned that the quality of Hermann Oak might be slipping.  I used to use it exclusively.  Now with all that said, Weaver's Chahin leather is a pretty darn good leather for the price.  It has that broken in feel out the gate which is really nice for a number of projects.  ALD has it once in a while, but perhaps that is one of the major reasons to stay with Weaver is the "reliability of availability"  It is pretty rare I ever order anything and have it out of stock, and if it is, it gets back in stock quick.  That means a lot when you are doing custom orders, and have a deadline.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

The problem I have with Weaver is the shipping.  Not just the big stuff, but; the little stuff.  Did you ever get all you need to do a project only to find at the last minute you are short a snap or some other small item?  Happened to me yesterday.  Went to the bin to get the small snaps I needed to finish a pair of chaps for a customer that needs them in a few days, and low and behold, I find out I am short to finish them.  Don't have the time to wait till I have the next big order so I have to order 6 snaps @ $1 something each, and pay $13.36 shipping , for an $8 order!  That's criminal! They could have fitted in an envelope and been shipped for a buck!  That's where I get frosted!  There is no need for that.

Bob

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I agree, Bob.