Back stitching Biothane Beta w/Cowboy 4500

[CowboyBob]

The problem is the feed dogs are out & he's sewing Beta which is real sticky,it is real hard to get the stitches to line up in reverse in leather w/o the feed dog,but beta is impossible w/o the feed dogs.they lift the material off the slide plate & help with the feed.So use Wiz's idea & turn it around if you need to backstitch w/o the feed dogs.We always test the machines with the feed dogs in.Now if there was a Teflon slotted needle plate made it would help the reverse stitch line up.

[JLSleather]

But, the material is not "stickier" in reverse than it is in forward.  It's the same material.

 

[Darren Brosowski]

The material is a bastard to sew regardless of the machine. In theory a compound feed machine when well set up should be perfect in both directions but it does not a;ways work in reality/

[CowboyBob]

You Sir are correct but even leather shortens up in reverse w/o the feed dogs so if leather doesn't reverse properly,"stickier" beta sure won't.What is strange about ALL 441's even Juki is the top of the needlebar rock frame is offset.It's offset towards the back so it makes the feed harder to be more consistant in reverse.A machine like a Juki 563 the pivot @ the top is centered & should feed more evenly in reverse w/o a feed dog.

[JLSleather]

Yeah, I can see where it's not a quick n painless setting, and I think the shims behind teh plate is certainly more controllable. 

i don't know a whole lot about these machines, though I catch on pretty quick.  So I guess I'm thinking of the "new guy" when I say all this..... just cuz I don't want them to spend a couple grand and then think they're doing it wrong when they aren't, or think they "broke" something when they didn't.

As a former tool and die man, I've installed a couple [million] shims...

 

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

16 hours ago, Darren Brosowski said:

The material is a bastard to sew regardless of the machine. In theory a compound feed machine when well set up should be perfect in both directions but it does not a;ways work in reality/

What he said! I sew quite a bit of both Biothane and Beta, in fact, it is the main reason I bought my Cowboy 4500.  I have pleny of machines to sew leather, but I needed to be able to sew Biothane FAST and a Landis One is not fast.  I'd much rather sew leather than this material.  I despise the stuff, but it's what a lot of people want now instead of leather harness.  For sewing Biothane, I use a needle 2 sizes larger than I would for leather, and on Beta, one size larger than for leather.  I would never attempt to sew either without a feed dog. I have rarely, if ever had a problem with my reverse stitches not lining up with my forward ones. If it happens, it's typically due to going up or downhill and the material not feeding properly due to the nature of the material, not the fault of the machine. This material is sticky, yet at the same time, slides out of position easily.  I use either LR needles or S-point needles and set the stitch length longer. Tri point needles leave too ugly of a hole for me. If at all possible, I avoid having to sew Biothane or Beta at all!

[Colt W Knight]

I made 30 GPS tracking collars out of biothane, and it was a nightmare to work with when the weather turned cold. I was having to preheat it before punching holes, bending, sewing, or really doiing anything with it. someone asked me for more, and I declined. 

[Parott1]

The reason I bought the slotted plate was because the biothane didn't sew right with it.  I'm sewing the leashes aprox 1/8" from the edge.  Anytime I did this the biothane would pull down into the gap and the bottom stitch wasn't lined with the top stitch. 

 

Is there a way to use the feed dog with beta and still get within an 1/8" from the edge?  

 

Also this may be a dumb question, but is it possible to use the swing out edge guide simultaneously with the drop down guide?  I tried to flip the work around, sew 3 stitches and do a 180 and go back around the piece, but I had a hard time getting the stitches to go exactly in the first 3 holes.  

 

When I say simultaneously, I mean set one guide to keep the stitching equal distance from the edge, then use the other guide once the work is flipped around.   

[Parott1]

After playing around with washers and pieces of business cards, I think I got as close as I'm going to get without having Teflon coated plate. 

[mikesc]

Possibly a dumb question ;) But..Why would anyone want something made from this stuff anyway ?
From what I can find out about it ( had never heard of it before, and I don't think I've ever seen any ), it appears to be a sort of polyurethane webbing with a plastic leather "look" coating..sort of a leather look without the leather ( similar to what the Chinese describe as "genuine PVC leather" when they are selling "leather goods" or "leather clothing" ) , if the coating is to protect the webbing, surely the act of stitching it, and so piercing the coating pretty much nullifies the protective element of the "sandwich"..does it have any advantages ? ( obviously one of the disadvantages is apparently it is "bastard to sew" ) ..Or is it just a kind of ersatz leather for vegans..Is it cheaper ?..

Not knocking anyone sewing it, customers want some weird things..But why would they want it ?

Ps..the name Biothane made me think initially that it was one of the plastics made from seaweed ( some of that kind of thing is made near to where I live ) but it appears to be a US manufacturer, their website is not very forthcoming about any "advantages" that it might have..

Edited July 12, 2016 by mikesc