Stuck/stripped screws on Singer 2281

[brandyb]

I recently bought a Singer 2281F362 and need to make some adjustments to the feed dog. According to the one manual I could find after much searching:

https://wiki.artisansasylum.com/images/b/b6/Singer-281-1-service.pdf

I need to loosen the clamp screws on both the feed bar carrier and the feed bar crank. However they are all rather stuck and were already looking worn. This machine had been in storage for years (and it's always dusty out here in the desert) and who knows when these adjustments were last made. I've found various suggestions on the internet, however most of them seem to be for dealing with stuck screws, not so much stripped screws. The single screw on the feed bar crank feels soft and is definitely stripping. I'm unsure how to proceed! Also if I succeed in getting these screws loose, will I be able to find replacements? The manual I linked to seems to be missing the parts list.

Any suggestions welcome! Thanks ya'll

[mikesc]

WD40 onto each screw ( between the head and the hole that the screw sits in ) wait 24 hours then use "Locking pliers", "mole grips" (mole wrench) or "vise-grips"* to lock around the screw head ( preferably with their teeth in the direction of the shaft of the screws ) and unscrew..really stubborn screws also succumb to a quick spray with "bolt freeze spray" ( also called "freeze off" or "freeze and release" ) just before they are unscrewed..use it precisely on the screw , it will cool down the screw so much that it will shrink a tiny amount in relation to the hole it is in, and thus unscrew easier with the mole grips ..Even works with screws that have had "thread lock resin" on them for a long time..such as the screws that hold the discs on Harley wheels..

Replacement screws for Singers..lots of places do them..someone in the USA will be better able to advise you of the nearest supplier to you than I am..I just ordered some ( and some other stuff ) from College Sewing in the UK for a Singer 20U33 ( "bight amplitude regulating plate thumbscrew"..one was missing ) that I picked up on Saturday last..

Someone here will probably have a link to an actual parts list for your machine, or even one they can post, which will get you the precise part number to search for..

HTH :)

* various names for the same tool..here in France they are called "Vice Etau"..pronounced "veese ay toe" ..in case you ever need to buy one here :)

ps .."freeze off" can give you a "cold burn" ( frost bite ) ..keep it away from your eyes, face, fingers and children..

Edited August 17, 2016 by mikesc

[RockyAussie]

One more thing if the vice grips are not able to attach well, I use a pair of small nail pullers a lot for similar situations. Hold in the direction you would a screw driver and grab outside of screw head and turn anticlockwise of course.Something left over from years of shoe repairing I guess.

[brmax]

You might find the best fitting drive bit at your local hardware store, these are made more specific to machine screws.

So generally getting the proper fitting bit will work great even trashed screws as the cheap screwdrivers like we all use sometimes don't touch the metal the proper bit uses.

Lowes, home depot and ace will have a larger drive bit that will fit in the screw, so with this and some counter clockwise twist and pressure- tap the driver on top with a rawhide mallet.

I would look them screws up on a machine site for replacement with a part number when that is established here soon, guaranteed shipping is way more than product. But some times we can luck out and get these at ace hardware ? sometimes ?

The flip or change over screw drives I give to my kids is the ticket with a large bit, I try to keep one in the kitchen drawer "but" they fly away.

good day there

Floyd

[gottaknow]

For those screws, I use SnapOn screwdrivers that are quite large with a hex head shape on the top of the shaft just below  the handle. You can then put a box end wrench on the screwdriver for some serious torque. Those screws are messed up from using screwdrivers that were too small. If you can't find screws, let me know. I have a bunch of them. 

Regards, Eric

[dikman]

If you can get a small cut-off wheel in a Dremel in there it may be possible to deepen/square up the screwdriver slot. Sometimes localised heat applied to the screwhead can also help to break the thread free (I use a Dremel butane torch that has a pinpoint flame). Or, as has been mentioned, twist a screwdriver while giving it sharp wacks with a hammer. 

Screws are often boogered like that by people using carpenters'-type screwdrivers, which aren't shaped correctly for machine screws. Same problem is often found on firearms.

[brmax]

As many here make gear for professionals and includes firearms I though this tool set was a great help for myself and I purchased it actually with my first sew machine restore and (self teaching what one is etc.) fwiw that can be worth many grins n laughs I know!

Anyhow I turned wrenches professionally for 34 and used, bought, broke, and lost many and of all brands then retired and bought this a Wheeler Engineering gunsmithing screwdriver set.

It's an investment for when ya need the "right one" , they have the 1/4" hex drive and numbered so this can help in some discussions.

good day to ya

Floyd

 

[Cascabel]

  In situations like this, I have always had good luck using the small hexagonal screwdriver bits.  You simply turn them with a wrench while pushing them hard into the screw with the handle.  You can increase the grip of the screwdriver bit by coating it with valve grinding compound.   It makes a huge difference !!.   If the situation permits, you can hold the bit hard into the screw using a clamp, instead of the handle and then turn it with a wrench.  It only requires a small amount of movement to break it loose.   Using the screwdriver handle tends to cause the tip to "walk" out of the slot if not held absolutely straight.   You may have to carefully re-cut the slots a bit deeper using a small file or piece of hacksaw blade, if they are badly boogered up.    Keep in mind that when buying replacement screws that Singer uses it's own proprietary threads that are non-standard, so you will likely need to get replacements from a Singer supplier, or get a friend to make them for you on a lathe. 

[Tejas]

As for using WD-40, here is post from the link below:

A study done by Machinist's Workshop magazine in their April 2007 issue looked at different penetrating oils to see which one did the best job of removing a rusted bolt by measuring the pounds of torque required to loosen the bolt once treated. If the study was scientifically accurate, it turns out a home brew works best!
Here's the summary of the test results:

Penetrating oil ..... Average load

None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-penetrating-oil-196347/

[mikesc]

I use my own "home mix" ( similar to the ATF Acetone mix )..But..I have a degree in chemistry ( and others in some other subjects )..I don't recommend anyone making their own "home brews" if they are not experienced with the handling of dangerous chemicals..Acetone is very powerful ..( it is a "contact carcinogenic" ), the Acetone vapours are also highly carcinogenic ..it can catch fire very easily ( extremely low "flash point" ), contains a huge amount of energy, can be used either deliberately ( or inadvertently ) to make various explosives in combination with various other "household chemicals" ..Purchase of it is now restricted or banned ( without proof of a very good reason for needing it ) in some countries, particularly in Europe since the events of the past few years and this year in particular..

WD40 is also available " over the counter" in pretty much any country, whereas PB Blaster, liquid wrench, Kano Kroll, and many other similar items are not usually available outside of the USA..I post advice ( if, when I can ) for the benefit of the posters in the thread(s) , but also for those who may be reading this ( now or later ) and other threads and who may not be in the USA, and thus who would not have access to country specific brands..Another example would be the various "belt dressings" which get mentioned by their brand names as the solutions to "problems" or as "aids"..many of these are completely unavailable outside of the USA, but whilst the majority of those reading and posting here are in the USA..many members are not..and many readers / lurkers are probably not ( the people with access to the leatherworker.net site "raw logs" would know the exact numbers/percentages of "hits" from non USA IP addresses )..By all means brand name products are useful to mention, but, please bear in mind that not all of the readers can buy them..and most of the products which contain "volatiles" cannot be shipped internationally except under special circumstances, or at great expense, or only to "distributors"..

"Home brews" can 99% of the time be perfectly safe in the hands of someone experienced with the handling of seemingly innocuous ( but actually potentially very dangerous ) chemicals..But who knows the "experience" or technical level of all the readers and posters here..

Hence my warnings in my earlier post about "freeze off" and similar cold release products ( other countries have similar products , with different names )..most of them get down to -30°C or in some cases -50°C..enough to blind or maim if one is not careful..

Btw..I used to be able to get "Snap On" tools here, when I lived near St Tropez the "Snap On" trucks ( the local franchise was owned by an English Guy ) the next dept over, le 13 the franchise was owned by his brother ) used to come around..then they stopped ..We heard they had folded ( the brothers, not Snap On" )..I have a few "Snap On" tools left they are great, the French Garages I know have mostly never heard of them ( unless the owners have been to the USA, one French friend with a speciality Garage goes to the USA every year, buys Mustang cars, and Corvettes, new and old, brings them back , fixes the old ones up , sells them and drives them )..buys his "Snap On" tools in the USA..here the "pro tools" are Facom ..not as good.. :(

Edited August 17, 2016 by mikesc

[dikman]

WD-40 has long been touted as the "do all" solution, and as Mike pointed out is pretty much universally available - but in reality its uses are limited! It displaces water (what it was designed to do), has limited lubricating properties, does nothing for rust prevention (it actually washes off if left in the rain!) and, in my experience, it's penetrating abilities aren't that good.

Mike's warnings notwithstanding, the ATF-acetone mix has been mentioned on all sorts of forums as a very effective penetrating liquid for loosening stuck/rusted fittings.

[mikesc]

Agreed, WD40 whilst being very widely available isn't as good as it's advertising, ( and the "knock offs" are actually often quite corrosive ! )..ATF is less widely available..the USA has mostly automatic transmissions ( I remember from my visits, a lot of drivers in the USA cannot drive "stick" ) In the UK and many other European countries automatic transmissions are not the most widely available ..less than 10% of cars and light trucks in Europe have automatic transmission, in many countries it is fewer than 5% of cars and light trucks..When I left the UK one could take a driving test on a "stick shift" vehicle, which ( if one passed ) gave one a licence to drive both "stick shift" and "auto", one could also take a driving test in an "auto" vehicle , if one passed the test , one's licence entitled one to drive automatic transmission vehicles only..having that "auto" only licence and driving a "stick shift" ..( or as the UK calls it a "manual gear box" vehicle ), was ( is still ?) a road traffic offence ( unless one is accompanied by a "fully qualified driver" , and displaying "L Plates" ) and can result in loss of points, loss of licence, fines, prison , or combinations of all of those..

TL:DR :) ..means that because there a far fewer "automatic transmission" vehicles in Europe ( and even fewer in many other parts of the world..ATF can be quite hard to find..or expensive..In France some older Citroëns use a similar fluid for the hydraulic ( hydro-elastic ) suspension circuits, makes it easier to get a "substitute" ( the "green" fluid, not the "red" ), but it is still comparatively expensive..diesel ( which is nowhere near as good as a release agent, except when used for "soaking" entire machines ) is much easier to get...But is still dangerous, especially if left on rags or when spills are cleaned up with sawdust or similar ( the resulting "mix" can then spontaneously combust , or even explode when mixed with certain contaminants ) ..Last "auto" I owned was a rover SD1 2600 ( would have preferred another 3500, nice "block" the 3500 ) in 98..If you are using ATF and acetone..wear eye protection ( a tiny splash can blind you ) , and take care..store any clean up rags in a bucket of water ( with water in it, to cover the rags ), and don't let your kids or pets near it..

I seem to remember ( despite not having visited, but from Aussie mates in London when I lived there ) that OZ has a fairly high percentage of "auto" transmissions , ..but I don't remember seeing many in the Mad Max movies :)

Vegetable oil and acetone works as well as ATF and acetone, and better than WD40..and is cheaper..details here..
https://www.engineeringforchange.org/how-to-make-penetrating-oil/

Edited August 17, 2016 by mikesc

[garypl]

There is an off-the-shelf product called Kroil that works well on frozen screws.  In the US you should be able to buy from Midway USA or Brownells and probably from a well-stocked hardware store.

[dikman]

Kroil is another one of those products (along with Johnson Paste Wax and DuPont spray dry lube) that we can't get in Oz. Funnily enough, those last two products have a regular high "request rate" in various forums here. ATF, on the other hand, is easy to get as autos are quite common in Oz.

There are many so-called "rust loosening/unseizing" products around and I tend to look up the MSDS  whenever I come across one. Most of them are just various forms of light oils and distillates, nothing special in my opinion. You'd probably understand their makeup a bit (lot?) better than me, Mike.

Edited August 18, 2016 by dikman