What type of Servo Motor and Reducer for a Consew 230?

[MaryGladys]

Hello Everyone!

My father surprised me with giving me his old Consew 230.  He makes boots for a living and used this machine for sewing leather. Primarily for the welts and piping and he figured it would be good for my endeavors to sew lightweight leather purses and organizers as it can sew the thickness I need and up to 138 thread. Oh, how I wanted a 206RB, but the 230 does now hold sentimental value....

So Dad came over and we set it up....with a clutch motor and the thing is in bad shape because it just about goes into warp speed stitching and the foot pedal is a hot mess! I release my foot and it just keeps a going....and eventually slows on it own.  Ummmmm, this isn't really good for me!  Plus, when we fired the ol' girl up, it sounded like I started up a starship :-).  So loud!!!!  

Ok, I have been sewing for 30 years - fabric, that is...and I am used to my home machine. I have total control of how slow or fast I sew....and the pedal is very responsive!

I am gonna be honest, I need a machine that runs SLOW - so I can keep up with it for right now...Maybe one day I can sew fast but certainly not now!!!

I see stuff about controller, needle position/sync, servo motors and reducers. Best I can reckon, I would LOVE a servo motor and may well need a reducer to sew at a turtle pace, but what is this controller and needle position/sync?  

And of all of these things, what products would you recommend and from whom?

BTW, I live in Florida.

Thank you soo much! 

MG

And come to think of it, such a sad thing that a 78 year old man could handle this Consew 230 going faster than the speed of light, but his kid daughter is having some serious issues with it!!! :-)

Edited September 14, 2016 by MaryGladys

[dikman]

Well, he's had many years using it so it's no wonder he can handle it. My first effort with a clutch motor was scary, to say the least! I quickly realised that it wasn't going to work for me. There are two or three vendors on this site who will no doubt be able to help you out with supplying a servo motor (I'm assuming you don't want to to order one via ebay/China). The controller is simply the device that controls the servo, I won't bother you with the technical details.Some servos may be an all-in-one unit with the motor, some may have a separate controller and motor, but they all do the same thing. A needle positioner allows the machine to stop with the needle either up or down, depending on the setting, when you take your foot of the pedal. I don't think too many on here use them. I bought one but decided I didn't really like it, I'm sewing slow enough that's it's easy to stop the needle just where I want it.

Fitting a speed reducer as well as a servo will allow you to get very slow speeds with lots of torque, but may not be necessary for your needs. Start with a servo first (easiest) and fit a speed reducer later if you think you need it.

[Uwe]

The very common, cheapest (around $110ish shipped on Ebay) and actually pretty good servo motors go by various names, usually something like Family Sew 550 or FESM 550, etc. They all come from the same factory, it seems. They are being sold by a bunch of distributors. It's a good, basic choice that should be a huge improvement over your current clutch motor with its apparently defective clutch. This servo motor has a simple dial that allows you to limit top speed down to about 400-500 RPM usable speed. This motor should be a direct swap for the clutch motor without requiring any modifications of the table or motor mount points. Depending on pulley sizes, this should get you into the 3-10 stitches per second range at the low end with good low speed control. 

Fancier servo motors that cost about twice as much ($200 or so)  often have a digital control box with a bunch of buttons to navigate a cryptic menu to adjust how the motor works. Some of these fancier motors also allow adding a Needle Positioning System (NPS), sometimes called Electronic Position System (EPS), which makes the needle stop in the UP or DOWN position whenever you let go of the pedal. NPS is nice to have for some high volume, fast production applications, but it makes the whole installation more complex. It doesn't sound like this is something you'd want/need. Same bottom speeds of about 3-10 stitches per second.

Speed reducer pulleys are surprisingly expensive at around $150 and slow things down by a factor of two or three ( about 1-3 stitches per second instead of 3-9). They can also be a real pain to install, depending on your machine and table setup. The speed reduction may not be worth an extra $150. 

Servo motor speed ratings are deceptive when they state "0-3,600 RPM", making you think you can smoothly accelerate from 0 to 3,600 RPM. What they really should say is "0 RPM, and then 300-3,600 RPM". They jump from 0 to 300, there is no smooth ramping of speed between 0 and 300. 

One new 1,100 watt servo motor sold by SewPro USA for about $200 plus shipping has a significantly lower usable starting speed of 100 RPM. The motor is not yet on the website, you'd have to call and ask for it. The slower starting speed gives you the same effect as a speed reducer pulley, but without the extra cost and pain of installation. I've used these motors for a few installations and really like them. A needle position sensor is available for an extra $25 with a nice, simple Up/Down button on the control box. You can turn the NPS function off via a menu setting (other NPS systems can not be easily turned off, which can be real problem/pain).

Alas, sewing too slow can actually cause problems with your machine, since it has an oil pump that only works properly when running at high speeds. You'd have to run it at full speed every so often to keep things lubricated properly.  

Edited September 15, 2016 by Uwe

[MaryGladys]

Dikman and Uwe, thank you SOOOO much!  

Hahaha, Dikman, you are right about my Dad! Even at 46, I am still amazed with how much knowledge and wisdom both of my parents have!!!

I will NOT need a Needle Position System! Even with my home sewing machine I never had one! I can see the benefit of one in a more commercial environment, though!

I know I am looking for this machine to sew somewhat like my home sewing machine....allow me to go slow around curves and small places and fast on the big stretches (like a belt or purse strap).  I would love for it to be variable speed based on how hard I step on the foot pedal!  Right now, it's either STOP or WARP SPEED - very much like a toddler or puppy!!!  :-) 

Now, controller....speaking of that....the clutch also has a controller it appears....a bow that has a plug connected to the motor. The box has something that looks like a motherboard attached to some things that look like HUGE transistors?  This is not the on/off box, either....something totally different. So, does that clutch also have a controller? And could I use this controller box for the servo?  Uwe, you say I really don't need the controller box unless I want to tweak it, right?  Based on looking at this "controller" for the clutch, it appears confusing so...if I can get something already configured for my slow self, that would be great!!!!

Uwe, I have read some nightmare stories (on this forum) about some of the Chinese stuff and that has me a little concerned if I have problems with the motor that I couldn't send it back.  I have read that SewPro is ok, though so I will look at that!!!

Next big HUGE question, not all motors are alike, so what would be the right sized/spec of motor would I need?

My Dad said he thinks he has a pulley (reducer) somewhere if he can find it to give me.

Thank you sooo much!  This was super educational! I have learned a lot on this site already and I hope one day to contribute!!!!

MG

[JLSleather]

I have a new in box servo that I'm pretty sure would work for you.  I bought it for the 206-rb5, but some gal talked me out of that machine before it arrived! 

Maybe one of these boys can confirm compatibility for you.  You can save a bit, and I got one less box on the truck when i move

I have this one.. never out of the package ($100 + shipping).

http://www.leathermachineco.com/shop/brushless-digital-d-c-servo-motor/

Edited September 15, 2016 by JLSleather

[Colt W Knight]

My consew 206rb has a Family Sew servo motor and larger pulley - no speed reducer pulley setup and it has plenty of power and will sew very slow. 

[mikesc]

What company name is on the clutch, and on the box with what "look like huge transistors", it may be that you have a variospeed clutch ( or something similar ) .I have something which would fit your description on my Juki DLU 490..if it is that sort of thing, you cannot use it to control a servo motor..

If you fit a servo motor , with separate digital controller ( you buy the "kit" and it goes in the same place as your clutch motor, you take off the clutch motor and the servo motor bolts right into the same holes, the digital controller goes where your "on/off" switch is at the right side of the table, and the speed reducer ( which is really just two pulleys, a big one and a small one stuck together on the same shaft as each other ) is powered by the servo motor by the first belt, if you fit the servo motor, with a speed reducer, you will have the kind of control that you are used to on your domestic machine..0 to however fast you want..in a nice smooth controllable ease down on the pedal and go..for that you'd want the kind of set up I have on my 211U166A.

Just seen JSLeather has posted that he has a servo motor, would probably work for you, will depend on the specifications, bottom end speed setting etc..

Edit..

OK ..followed JSLeather's link, it will work for you, the up/down is on the motor rather than separately, that just means reaching under the table occasionally, to change the top speed, not a big deal, and for $100.oo in the box new, you can't go wrong..you may not even need to fit a speed reducer, 600W is a lot of power and so you'll certainly have the torque, if it will ramp up from zero, then you may not need to have the speed reducer pulleys set up to get the control that you want..

 

If your dad has a  speed reducer, and you fit it along with the servo from JSLeather..even better, you'll be in sewing speed control heaven

 

Actually I think it is quite possible that what you think are huge transistors are capacitors ( or at least one of them might be a capacitor ), careful, capacitors pack / keep enough "electrical bang" to kill you even when the power is switched off, don't mess with them, they are used to convert ( they create what could be thought of as a "fake phase" from the monophase input ) motors that would run on industrial 3 phase to run on domestic monophase electricity..

I presume you are on 110v ( monophase ) domestic electricity supply..most industrials clutch motors were originally made to run on 380v ( ish ) tri-phase industrial supply..but many have been converted , either by adding in a capacitor, or by using a frequency variater ( the "box" might even be one of these, either way don't mess with it ) when they are converted with a capacitor they lose around 30% of their power.

Edited September 15, 2016 by mikesc

[MaryGladys]

I send a virtual KISS to you JLS and Mike!  

Mike, yes! I do believe that is what this is because the motor connects to it. Let me post some pictures!!!!!  It is an Amco motor with an auxiliary motor on front. That auxiliary motor connects to the capacitor...so that makes sense!

JLS, you are ON! I will PM you!

Mike do you happen to have any pictures of how your machine is set up so I might be able to verify with Dad his pulley would work?

Thank you!

[mikesc]

That 1st image actually looks like a very simple frequency variater, or it might be some other kind of speed control device (AMCO is not a company that I'm familiar with, don't think they sell in Europe ) the 3 cylindrical grey things I think are probably capacitors, with covers on, if so,they'll bite you hard given a chance..the square thing is a transformer..don't take it apart any further, put the cover back on..count yourself fortunate that you didn't let the "magic smoke "out of anything, including yourself..get in touch with JSLeather..

The small cylinder in the last image that is pointing out towards you, no idea what it is, never seen that set up before..( I do hope it is all well earthed , and that your circuit breakers are working, lot of wires hanging around there ) maybe someone in the USA such as Wiz or Eric etc has seen similar.

I don't have any pictures ATM of my servo and speed reducer set up, but dikman might have some of his ( which we think is basically the same as mine ) and if you search for constabulary an speed reducers or constabulary and servo motors he has posted some pictures of his set up which is also basically the same.In both their cases and in mine the servo motor has a separate control box for setting speeds, JSLeather's speed controls are on the motor itself, which, as I said above is no big deal, his motor is more powerful that the motors we have, ours are all ( I think ) 550W , I built a 5:1 reducer, I think constabulary's is a 3:1, I think dikman's is the same as constabulary's..My set up will sew through 8 or 9 mm of veg tan easily..and I get around 1 stitch every 4 or 5 seconds if I only just apply pressure on the pedal, if I press down harder, i have it set to a max speed of 200 SPM..I could set it to begin at i stitch very 4 or 5 seconds and a max speed of 4500 SPM..But I prefer to work slowly as I'm making prototypes of my designs which I then have manufactured elsewhere ( long story, which I have touched upon before in other posts, but not going to go into it, and thus off topic, in this thread )..

Dinner is cooking ( it is 23.00 hrs here ) ..I cook in our house, I need to go and serve it, I'll look in later

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by mikesc

[SARK9]

My impression is that the mystery device may be a type of Lilliputian "roto-phase" converter rather than a static or electronic phase converter. I use a larger one (very old school) for some my equipment that requires 3PH power. It has the same general components...three large capacitors w/ circuit boards connected to a single phase motor.

-DC

[mikesc]

Very "old school" indeed almost steampunk..but, if it works..

[dikman]

A very interesting setup. I have a vague recollection of seeing something similar to that small cylindrical device but I can't remember! My guess is a small motor to drive some sort of adjustment inside the main motor? Anyhow, my recommendation, with something that old, is don't touch it! Generally the insulation on old things like that will be deteriorating and will fall apart if moved too much. That servo JLS has should suit you fine and you'll find the speed adjustment knob will be easier to use than messing around with the settings like mine has. Looks like a good deal. Fit that and it'll be like a new machine .

A couple of photos of mine, which is a fairly generic China made servo (I have three of them and so far had no issues). Two are 500w and one is a 750w, and to be honest the 500w has more than enough power for my needs.

 

[brmax]

The machine is sure to be easier to move around, as all that expensive to make, old motor electrics weigh a 100lbs probably.

Your Dad will be stoked to see the machine getting great use again and with the inspiration as he did before, so rock on!

Its interesting in some ways how the "way over the top" engineering to make these old styles work, when using/moving out from under the factory 3phase electric poles.  I have taken these off several kinds of equipment and just replaced with a standard motors for drills an other regular duty stuff so your on a roll with the help here.

I think Sark9 your on it, also I recall some types with the motor run capacitors doing the same less the starter motor.

So anyway with some help removing that heavy motor, and a different v-belt from ace you can be sewing up the storm in no time. It seems with general leather weights under 8oz's, a speed and power reducer pulley can be eliminated, my SQ6000 walks or runs through two 8oz's on the 1341 if the need is there so a servo in discussions should work.

It may be a good time to look at the lighting some of these ran a low volt coming from the motor wiring if so don't confuse it with the regular 120 wall plug, the bulb should easily give a quick visual on that info possibly just replace with the new style screw in fluorescent. Reason I mention some factory wired don't have a plug just wired to the motor.

Good luck and have fun there

Floyd

[mikesc]

@MaryGladys..please read this thread too,

take a look at the video that is embedded in it, it shows you how to make a speed reducer that will fix onto the top of your table behind the machine head..These are easier to make than ones that fit under the table..( mine is an "under the table sort" ) .It will also allow your Dad to see if his speed reducer is likely to do what you require.

Edited September 16, 2016 by mikesc

[MaryGladys]

You know, y;all are just flat out AWESOME!!!!

Dad made me laugh because he also said he didn't really understand the little motor on it....and he doesn't remember the story on it (these things happen after a stroke) so we just laughed about it and figured it worked and maybe housed the Keebler elves!

Floyd, yes there is a plug to the light that kinda attaches to the plug, but Dad didn't provide the lamp so I put the machine under a window and I have a bright OttLight that has a stretchy neck on it.  JoAnn fabrics has some great 60% coupons and you can get those nice lamps cheap that way!

Jeff is sending me the motor now!!!  I am soooo grateful to him!!!! Thank you Jeff!!!!

And thanks to everyone else! I have to admit, this is a bit of a learning curve for me.

I will post a picture once i get the motor set up....and yes, Floyd that thing weighs a good 100 pounds.  I will need help flipping the table over to remove it.

And I hope after that I can post a picture of something I have made! Been drawing up patterns for a while now....

Love this forum for being so helpful and educational...it's comforting to know there are still kind people out there :-).

Regards,

Patty

[MaryGladys]

On 9/16/2016 at 6:56 AM, mikesc said:

@MaryGladys..please read this thread too,

take a look at the video that is embedded in it, it shows you how to make a speed reducer that will fix onto the top of your table behind the machine head..These are easier to make than ones that fit under the table..( mine is an "under the table sort" ) .It will also allow your Dad to see if his speed reducer is likely to do what you require.

Mike, thank you. I am gonna see if the servo motor helps slow it down some. I also "borrowed" one of my son's heavy duty rectangle magnets to help me keep a seam straight (as my seam guide for my regular machine is too weak....I may be ok.  If not, I will ask Dad if he can give me the pulley system and confirm with him....

Patty

[JLSleather]

See, now -- I didn't even think of that.  See if you got a couple threaded holes in the top of the machine, that would fit this roller edge guide... and let me know.  I have one of these little roller thingies you can have if it works.. free is good, right?

 

[dikman]

MG, all the motors I've seen (so far) have the same mounting hole pattern - 2 bolts at the left hand end and one bolt at the right. Check the new motor first and make sure it's the same. No big deal if it's not, but you'll have to drill new holes. If you can get someone to help you then you can probably remove the old motor without flipping the table. Remove the belt and all the electrical bits and let them hang down, loosen the bolts and while someone is holding the motor up remove the right hand bolt, the motor should then slide out from the other two bolts.

[MaryGladys]

Jeff,

This is what I have for screw holes..  I looked at pictures online to see if I couldn't find one similar? Maybe on the side I have a couple holes, but the ones on top are at an angle. 

I wish they had such an attachment for low shank machines but the magnet on the plate works well. 

This attachment is better I can see with leather and higher speed sewing though!!!

I would love to have it if it works, Jeff!!!!!

Thank you!!!

 

Dikman, I will still wait for my brother...that motor is heavy....we may be able to manage removing it with the table up....I will defer to my brother on that as he will be the muscle behind it and I will be the monkey with the socket set.

[JLSleather]

Nah.. I'm talkin about one that fits in them other holes.  Easy to use, works good (I had one on my other machine, somehow ended up with a 'spare').

I'll find something to put it in and ship it down there... been riding the top drawer of my desk for WAY too long

The magnet is good if it's strong enough to not move around, but easy enough to adjust without trouble.  And you could always look into spring-loaded edge guide feet if you're sewing close to the edge.  And you could drill & tap holes in the machine for a "drop down" guide.  This, though, is somewhere between those methods, and lets you use the holes already there.  I think the holes are standard, and if not its simple to get different screws.

These are inexpensive.. money not an issue -- just better to send to someone who'll use it than continue to move it and store it!  If you can't use it, or prefer not to, then just pass it on to someone.
 

 

[MaryGladys]

Jeff, yes!!!! I will definitely use it and thank you!!!!!

[oldfarmboy]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 4:56 AM, mikesc said:

@MaryGladys..please read this thread too,

take a look at the video that is embedded in it, it shows you how to make a speed reducer that will fix onto the top of your table behind the machine head..These are easier to make than ones that fit under the table..( mine is an "under the table sort" ) .It will also allow your Dad to see if his speed reducer is likely to do what you require.

How can I see this video of the setup u are referring to? I have plans to build my own speed reducer using the gear box from an old electric lawn mower. The GE Craftsman model has about 6:1 reduction. I've used those for driving meat grinders. This one on hand is not GE but very similar. I had plans to position under the table. I will have to drop the motor down lower and possibly slightly further back. Not ideal but not very many options. I also have a DC motor from a treadmill which I hope to use with an electronic controller that is presently on order. It will go on the other machine. Will see how these projects turn out.

[oldfarmboy]

Well, been some time since the last post. Experimented with speed reduction on a Pfaff 145 and a Singer 307G2. On the Pfaff I built a counter shaft V pulley system as has been done by other posters here, but using the original clutch motor rather than buying a servo. I get a top speed of about 250 rpm on the machine. It doesn't remove slipping the clutch problem but at least speed is manageable and it provides plenty of power to drive through the thickest leather. Was able to easily go through two layers of 3/16 inch leather with ease.

I took an entirely different approach for the Singer. I used an older Mikita 1/2 inch 2 speed rechargeable drill. Many of the older drills use batteries that are nearly as expensive to replace as purchasing a new one so this one was just sitting unused for a couple years. Removed the chuck and mounted a 3 inch pulley. The chuck is standard 1/2 fine thread so the pulley had to be modified with matching bore. Next I built a frame to mount the drill in proper position under the table using the old mounting bracket bolted to the table and spring to tension the belt. Below the plate for the driill is a lever which connects to the foot pedal and operates the trigger on the drill. I get a top speed of about 1200 rpm on the machine using the high speed setting and an infinite range from zero. Another nice feature: these drill have braking so the needle stops instantly. Change the drill to low speed and torque is increased but I had no trouble sewing through one layer of about 3/16 leather on high speed. Anything heavier and the drive on the sewing machine pulley slips. That may be due to the needle I was using. Overall I'm really pleased with the results. This system may not be for everyone as you'll need access to some machining for the pulley and a welder for the bracket to build it.

Here are some pictures.

One other point I forgot to mention. I powered this drill assembly from a 12 volt car battery as the original batteries are not much good for anything. A simple trickle charger would keep the battery charged. Very economical too with no motor running.

[TinkerTailor]

I really like this setup. It is the kind of thing i would come up with.. Not sure how long it will last, cordless drills are not usually built to be side loaded, so the belt tension is likely to burn up the bearings, however it was free. Keep your eye out for old treadmills. The motors are variable speed and have enough power to put the spring in the step of a 250lb fat lady. Should punch a little leather....others have had success with this route

[oldfarmboy]

The bearings in this drill are pretty solid. I don't expect that to be an issue very soon. A cheaper unit with brass bushings would be different. I have a treadmill motor and I did try that system but what I didn't like was that it lacked braking. Also the speed control is more difficult because this particular motor uses permanent magnets for fields and needs DC voltage. If it had wound fields then it would probably run well on either DC or AC. To regulate speed I had to build a bridge rectifier circuit which was fed from a AC controller similar to what is found in more modern foot controls on new sewing machines. Older foot controls used a resister circuit. Similar electronic variable AC controllers today are found on light dimmers. Another issue with brush type motors is limiting RPM. Unloaded they can rev up to thousands of RPM and will destroy the sewing machine. That's exactly what happened to a Reliable blind hemmer I acquired free some months ago. I wasn't too heart broken though. Pretty much a useless machine other than the table.

But again what I didn't like was the lack of braking. I have the same braking issue on the Pfaff with the pulley speed reduction I built. It coasts for several stitches are cutting power. It does have power galore though and will last for eternity. It will get changed to a drill system soon enough. Just found a Craftsman 19.2 volt drill. Problem here is battery. Needs a six volt and a 12 volt and that brings up recharging issues.