What type of Servo Motor and Reducer for a Consew 230?

[MaryGladys]

Hello Everyone!

My father surprised me with giving me his old Consew 230.  He makes boots for a living and used this machine for sewing leather. Primarily for the welts and piping and he figured it would be good for my endeavors to sew lightweight leather purses and organizers as it can sew the thickness I need and up to 138 thread. Oh, how I wanted a 206RB, but the 230 does now hold sentimental value....

So Dad came over and we set it up....with a clutch motor and the thing is in bad shape because it just about goes into warp speed stitching and the foot pedal is a hot mess! I release my foot and it just keeps a going....and eventually slows on it own.  Ummmmm, this isn't really good for me!  Plus, when we fired the ol' girl up, it sounded like I started up a starship :-).  So loud!!!!  

Ok, I have been sewing for 30 years - fabric, that is...and I am used to my home machine. I have total control of how slow or fast I sew....and the pedal is very responsive!

I am gonna be honest, I need a machine that runs SLOW - so I can keep up with it for right now...Maybe one day I can sew fast but certainly not now!!!

I see stuff about controller, needle position/sync, servo motors and reducers. Best I can reckon, I would LOVE a servo motor and may well need a reducer to sew at a turtle pace, but what is this controller and needle position/sync?  

And of all of these things, what products would you recommend and from whom?

BTW, I live in Florida.

Thank you soo much! 

MG

And come to think of it, such a sad thing that a 78 year old man could handle this Consew 230 going faster than the speed of light, but his kid daughter is having some serious issues with it!!! :-)

Edited September 14, 2016 by MaryGladys

[dikman]

Well, he's had many years using it so it's no wonder he can handle it. My first effort with a clutch motor was scary, to say the least! I quickly realised that it wasn't going to work for me. There are two or three vendors on this site who will no doubt be able to help you out with supplying a servo motor (I'm assuming you don't want to to order one via ebay/China). The controller is simply the device that controls the servo, I won't bother you with the technical details.Some servos may be an all-in-one unit with the motor, some may have a separate controller and motor, but they all do the same thing. A needle positioner allows the machine to stop with the needle either up or down, depending on the setting, when you take your foot of the pedal. I don't think too many on here use them. I bought one but decided I didn't really like it, I'm sewing slow enough that's it's easy to stop the needle just where I want it.

Fitting a speed reducer as well as a servo will allow you to get very slow speeds with lots of torque, but may not be necessary for your needs. Start with a servo first (easiest) and fit a speed reducer later if you think you need it.

[Uwe]

The very common, cheapest (around $110ish shipped on Ebay) and actually pretty good servo motors go by various names, usually something like Family Sew 550 or FESM 550, etc. They all come from the same factory, it seems. They are being sold by a bunch of distributors. It's a good, basic choice that should be a huge improvement over your current clutch motor with its apparently defective clutch. This servo motor has a simple dial that allows you to limit top speed down to about 400-500 RPM usable speed. This motor should be a direct swap for the clutch motor without requiring any modifications of the table or motor mount points. Depending on pulley sizes, this should get you into the 3-10 stitches per second range at the low end with good low speed control. 

Fancier servo motors that cost about twice as much ($200 or so)  often have a digital control box with a bunch of buttons to navigate a cryptic menu to adjust how the motor works. Some of these fancier motors also allow adding a Needle Positioning System (NPS), sometimes called Electronic Position System (EPS), which makes the needle stop in the UP or DOWN position whenever you let go of the pedal. NPS is nice to have for some high volume, fast production applications, but it makes the whole installation more complex. It doesn't sound like this is something you'd want/need. Same bottom speeds of about 3-10 stitches per second.

Speed reducer pulleys are surprisingly expensive at around $150 and slow things down by a factor of two or three ( about 1-3 stitches per second instead of 3-9). They can also be a real pain to install, depending on your machine and table setup. The speed reduction may not be worth an extra $150. 

Servo motor speed ratings are deceptive when they state "0-3,600 RPM", making you think you can smoothly accelerate from 0 to 3,600 RPM. What they really should say is "0 RPM, and then 300-3,600 RPM". They jump from 0 to 300, there is no smooth ramping of speed between 0 and 300. 

One new 1,100 watt servo motor sold by SewPro USA for about $200 plus shipping has a significantly lower usable starting speed of 100 RPM. The motor is not yet on the website, you'd have to call and ask for it. The slower starting speed gives you the same effect as a speed reducer pulley, but without the extra cost and pain of installation. I've used these motors for a few installations and really like them. A needle position sensor is available for an extra $25 with a nice, simple Up/Down button on the control box. You can turn the NPS function off via a menu setting (other NPS systems can not be easily turned off, which can be real problem/pain).

Alas, sewing too slow can actually cause problems with your machine, since it has an oil pump that only works properly when running at high speeds. You'd have to run it at full speed every so often to keep things lubricated properly.  

Edited September 15, 2016 by Uwe

[MaryGladys]

Dikman and Uwe, thank you SOOOO much!  

Hahaha, Dikman, you are right about my Dad! Even at 46, I am still amazed with how much knowledge and wisdom both of my parents have!!!

I will NOT need a Needle Position System! Even with my home sewing machine I never had one! I can see the benefit of one in a more commercial environment, though!

I know I am looking for this machine to sew somewhat like my home sewing machine....allow me to go slow around curves and small places and fast on the big stretches (like a belt or purse strap).  I would love for it to be variable speed based on how hard I step on the foot pedal!  Right now, it's either STOP or WARP SPEED - very much like a toddler or puppy!!!  :-) 

Now, controller....speaking of that....the clutch also has a controller it appears....a bow that has a plug connected to the motor. The box has something that looks like a motherboard attached to some things that look like HUGE transistors?  This is not the on/off box, either....something totally different. So, does that clutch also have a controller? And could I use this controller box for the servo?  Uwe, you say I really don't need the controller box unless I want to tweak it, right?  Based on looking at this "controller" for the clutch, it appears confusing so...if I can get something already configured for my slow self, that would be great!!!!

Uwe, I have read some nightmare stories (on this forum) about some of the Chinese stuff and that has me a little concerned if I have problems with the motor that I couldn't send it back.  I have read that SewPro is ok, though so I will look at that!!!

Next big HUGE question, not all motors are alike, so what would be the right sized/spec of motor would I need?

My Dad said he thinks he has a pulley (reducer) somewhere if he can find it to give me.

Thank you sooo much!  This was super educational! I have learned a lot on this site already and I hope one day to contribute!!!!

MG

[JLSleather]

I have a new in box servo that I'm pretty sure would work for you.  I bought it for the 206-rb5, but some gal talked me out of that machine before it arrived! 

Maybe one of these boys can confirm compatibility for you.  You can save a bit, and I got one less box on the truck when i move

I have this one.. never out of the package ($100 + shipping).

http://www.leathermachineco.com/shop/brushless-digital-d-c-servo-motor/

Edited September 15, 2016 by JLSleather

[Colt W Knight]

My consew 206rb has a Family Sew servo motor and larger pulley - no speed reducer pulley setup and it has plenty of power and will sew very slow. 

[mikesc]

What company name is on the clutch, and on the box with what "look like huge transistors", it may be that you have a variospeed clutch ( or something similar ) .I have something which would fit your description on my Juki DLU 490..if it is that sort of thing, you cannot use it to control a servo motor..

If you fit a servo motor , with separate digital controller ( you buy the "kit" and it goes in the same place as your clutch motor, you take off the clutch motor and the servo motor bolts right into the same holes, the digital controller goes where your "on/off" switch is at the right side of the table, and the speed reducer ( which is really just two pulleys, a big one and a small one stuck together on the same shaft as each other ) is powered by the servo motor by the first belt, if you fit the servo motor, with a speed reducer, you will have the kind of control that you are used to on your domestic machine..0 to however fast you want..in a nice smooth controllable ease down on the pedal and go..for that you'd want the kind of set up I have on my 211U166A.

Just seen JSLeather has posted that he has a servo motor, would probably work for you, will depend on the specifications, bottom end speed setting etc..

Edit..

OK ..followed JSLeather's link, it will work for you, the up/down is on the motor rather than separately, that just means reaching under the table occasionally, to change the top speed, not a big deal, and for $100.oo in the box new, you can't go wrong..you may not even need to fit a speed reducer, 600W is a lot of power and so you'll certainly have the torque, if it will ramp up from zero, then you may not need to have the speed reducer pulleys set up to get the control that you want..

 

If your dad has a  speed reducer, and you fit it along with the servo from JSLeather..even better, you'll be in sewing speed control heaven

 

Actually I think it is quite possible that what you think are huge transistors are capacitors ( or at least one of them might be a capacitor ), careful, capacitors pack / keep enough "electrical bang" to kill you even when the power is switched off, don't mess with them, they are used to convert ( they create what could be thought of as a "fake phase" from the monophase input ) motors that would run on industrial 3 phase to run on domestic monophase electricity..

I presume you are on 110v ( monophase ) domestic electricity supply..most industrials clutch motors were originally made to run on 380v ( ish ) tri-phase industrial supply..but many have been converted , either by adding in a capacitor, or by using a frequency variater ( the "box" might even be one of these, either way don't mess with it ) when they are converted with a capacitor they lose around 30% of their power.

Edited September 15, 2016 by mikesc

[MaryGladys]

I send a virtual KISS to you JLS and Mike!  

Mike, yes! I do believe that is what this is because the motor connects to it. Let me post some pictures!!!!!  It is an Amco motor with an auxiliary motor on front. That auxiliary motor connects to the capacitor...so that makes sense!

JLS, you are ON! I will PM you!

Mike do you happen to have any pictures of how your machine is set up so I might be able to verify with Dad his pulley would work?

Thank you!

[mikesc]

That 1st image actually looks like a very simple frequency variater, or it might be some other kind of speed control device (AMCO is not a company that I'm familiar with, don't think they sell in Europe ) the 3 cylindrical grey things I think are probably capacitors, with covers on, if so,they'll bite you hard given a chance..the square thing is a transformer..don't take it apart any further, put the cover back on..count yourself fortunate that you didn't let the "magic smoke "out of anything, including yourself..get in touch with JSLeather..

The small cylinder in the last image that is pointing out towards you, no idea what it is, never seen that set up before..( I do hope it is all well earthed , and that your circuit breakers are working, lot of wires hanging around there ) maybe someone in the USA such as Wiz or Eric etc has seen similar.

I don't have any pictures ATM of my servo and speed reducer set up, but dikman might have some of his ( which we think is basically the same as mine ) and if you search for constabulary an speed reducers or constabulary and servo motors he has posted some pictures of his set up which is also basically the same.In both their cases and in mine the servo motor has a separate control box for setting speeds, JSLeather's speed controls are on the motor itself, which, as I said above is no big deal, his motor is more powerful that the motors we have, ours are all ( I think ) 550W , I built a 5:1 reducer, I think constabulary's is a 3:1, I think dikman's is the same as constabulary's..My set up will sew through 8 or 9 mm of veg tan easily..and I get around 1 stitch every 4 or 5 seconds if I only just apply pressure on the pedal, if I press down harder, i have it set to a max speed of 200 SPM..I could set it to begin at i stitch very 4 or 5 seconds and a max speed of 4500 SPM..But I prefer to work slowly as I'm making prototypes of my designs which I then have manufactured elsewhere ( long story, which I have touched upon before in other posts, but not going to go into it, and thus off topic, in this thread )..

Dinner is cooking ( it is 23.00 hrs here ) ..I cook in our house, I need to go and serve it, I'll look in later

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by mikesc

[SARK9]

My impression is that the mystery device may be a type of Lilliputian "roto-phase" converter rather than a static or electronic phase converter. I use a larger one (very old school) for some my equipment that requires 3PH power. It has the same general components...three large capacitors w/ circuit boards connected to a single phase motor.

-DC