31K20 - I bought ANOTHER machine!

[dikman]

When I mentioned to my wife that I just saw this machine on Gumtree (local ebay) and thought I'd buy it she didn't even bat an eyelid. My daughter and son-in-law just shook their heads and sort of laughed. Bit of a worry.....Well, it was only $120 and was advertised as an industrial treadle machine. Yes, it is an industrial machine, but I was only really interested in the treadle and stand. The guy selling it buys and sells stuff and I'm guessing this came as part of a pile of stuff he bought and he just wanted to move it quickly. He didn't know anything about it and said it came as is.The machine itself looks ok, serial no. indicates 1923, no rust and everything appears to move ok. Came with a small pile of bits and pieces - assorted feet, bobbins, two hook/race assemblies, needles wrapped in an oily rag and some bits that I haven't figured out yet. I should add that I don't really need this machine as it's essentially the same as my 331K4.

Anyhow, on to the stand. The table is obviously not original and has been built from 1 1/4" tongue and groove planking. The stand wasn't set up but the pulley stack just bolted straight on to existing bolts in the table. I don't know much about these things, but it appears that this may have been a "convertible" version of the treadle that Singer made, wherein a motor could be connected via the pulley stack in lieu of the treadle. That would account for the fact that it has a clutch built into it (plus the treadle wheel looks a bit small). I've figured out that I need to make a cone-shaped bolt to replace the one missing from the side of the treadle wheel (simple enough) but I can't work out how the Pitman rod from the wheel crank attaches to the treadle itself - there's no attachment point, nor can I see where anything may have broken off. Can anyone provide any photos (or a parts list, if there is one) for a complete treadle of this type?

I reckon I'll have to get rid of the yukky grey colour of the stand and give it a shot of black, and at some point make a decent table top. My intention is to fit one of my spare walking foot heads to it.

This is becoming an obsession - scary stuff!

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by dikman

[cdthayer]

That looks to me like a home-made setup using a household treadle stand to power an industrial machine head.  Most Singer industrial treadle stands have a 16” diameter flywheel, while that one has the design of a 12”.  What size is it?

The clutch assembly (does it say Singer or Atlas on it or something else?) appears to be mounted in reverse of how it would be mounted to power with a motor, so it was probably used only as a speed reducer or increaser depending on how the belts were arranged.  The machine head appears to have the smaller electric-type pulley on it, but that would be unusual for a 1923 model.  Maybe it just looks small in the photo.  Whether or not it is a smaller pulley, the step pulley (clutch assembly) arrangement may have helped make the unit easier to treadle or control.

It’s an interesting setup, and I probably would have drug it home too.

CD in Oklahoma

ETA:  I was wrong about the clutch being mounted in reverse.  The motor would mount outside of the treadle stand frame, if the frame is not in the way.  The clutch could have been mounted onto an old H-leg power stand at one time.  That's where I see most of them.

Edited February 20, 2017 by cdthayer
Corrected a mistake.

[CowboyBob]

That's a great deal,your very lucky usually when the put the motor on they throw the treadle wheel in a corner & it probably ends up thrown away.We get people calling all the time for them!

Nice looking machine  for the $$

[leecopp]

Cool find.  Here is a shot of the motor clutch that came on my 21w180.  It is a Wheeler Wilson Clutch with a 1890s patent..  Looks like the harp from a domestic machine attached to a wooden frame. .

 

[suzelle]

I love the old Singers, no matter how rusty.  You should stay busy fixing that one up and it will be fun!

[dikman]

cdthayer, it's a 12" wheel. I had a feeling it was probably a domestic treadle when I saw it, so thanks for confirming that, and yeah, home-made but not a bad job. There are two plates, with bolts, mounted underneath the table and I figure that's where the motor was mounted (probably just an ordinary 1/4 HP or similar). All the parts appear to be there (including the protective cover that fits in front of the treadle wheel) and the belt guides, although there is a snapped off bolt in one of them. There is also one small part that appears to have been cut off from somewhere (haven't found where yet) that looks like a belt guide maybe. I just have to work out how the crank linkage attaches to the treadle plate, there's no obvious way I can see and no sign of where anything has broken or been cut off. I'll start looking at google photos to compare various treadle plates.

The head unit doesn't have any Singer decals anywhere, so I'm guessing it's been repainted, but if so it's a pretty neat job. I'm not too concerned with the head unit yet, I'll concentrate on getting the treadle sorted. I reckon finding one with that step pulley might be a stroke of luck, as I haven't seen one in any of the ads I've looked at before.

[dikman]

This treadle is proving interesting. I've spent a lot of time with my friend Mr. Google and so far haven't found out anything about the clutch/pulley stack, not even a photo (yes, it has Singer painted on it). The treadle pedal is also a bit of a mystery.

I found out where the broken bit fits, and should be able to weld it back on (the break looks like it's cast steel, not cast iron). There appear to be two types of treadle pedal, one that has the bit sticking out like mine and the other has a piece sticking out that has a hole in it, where the end of the connecting rod (at top of photo) fits into. So the connecting rod on my large wheel could never attach to the treadle that I have!

So I have two options - weld the broken bit back and make a new connecting rod to suit the existing bracket, or fabricate a complete new piece, to suit the existing connecting rod, and weld that on to the treadle. The latter will be more work, but that connecting rod end has a ball and socket in it to allow for angle changes when operating so is probably the better way.

Just thought of a third option, weld the piece back and fabricate a bracket of some sort to connect the two together. Whatever I do is not going to be as original condition, so it probably doesn't matter what it looks like.

Edited February 21, 2017 by dikman

[leecopp]

The treadle plate looks to have been made for a wooden pitman.  It is pretty easy to make a hybrid. e-friend bernie describes the process at :  http://www.treadleon.net/sewingmachineshop/hybridpitman/hybridpitman.html 

I personally have taken a two part motor control rod (pitman?) and clamped onto the stub a shortened treadle pitman and bent a loop to fit over the treadle plate stub.  Not pretty, but it worked well and only required a hammer and a vice.

 

Lee

[cdthayer]

I’m not sure if that treadle/machine unit has ever run.  I’m wondering if someone was trying to accumulate parts to come up with a working unit.  The flywheel doesn’t appear to have the same paint on it as the rest of the stand, so maybe it’s a replacement from a newer model stand.  Getting a replacement foot plate to match your pitman rod would be easy to do here in the states, but I’m not sure about Oz.  I’d go that route first before I tried to marry the broken plate to your rod.

I can’t see the second belt hole in the table top, but if you sight down through the holes by aligning your eye with the machine balance wheel pulley with the hole in the table, you can get an idea whether the belt went to one of the clutch pulleys or to the flywheel (or neither).  If the second hole is a slot, it may not tell you much, but the hole in the front has to line up fairly well with something obvious below for the belt to not rub.

That type of clutch would have a small electric motor attached to it on the end opposite the actuation lever.  Various motors can be swapped out to attach to the clutch unit.  I can’t see if the frame would be in the way or not from the photo.  The motor would need to mount outside of the frame.

Using a household treadle stand to power an industrial machine works just fine, depending on what you’re sewing.  I have my 1950 Singer 78-3 needle-feed machine on a small household tubular steel treadle stand.  My wife quilted two quilts on it in the past couple of weeks.

CD in Oklahoma

ETA:  I just remembered that some of the older treadle stands that had wooden pitmans were narrower than the newer models of treadle stands, so finding a plate to fit may be more difficult than I stated.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by cdthayer
Thought of something.

[dikman]

Excellent info, guys, now I have a clearer picture of how it should fit together. It won't be hard to make up a replacement connecting piece from steel.

You may be right, cdthayer, about the collection of parts as the wheel still has remnants of what was probably the original black paint, as does the protective guard, whereas the rest has been painted gray. The belt holes line up with the flywheel and judging by the mountings underneath it was motor powered. I figure I'm lucky that I seem to have enough parts to be able to get it working, as people want ridiculous amounts of money here for the old treadle assemblies. And as for spare parts......

I think I'm going to need a lot of paint stripper to get rid of that yukky gray!