Something to Sing(er) about! :)

[suzelle]

The Culprit - why zigzag setting causes skipped stitches:

It's the bobbin case ! Previous Owner also removed the original bobbin case from the machine! Wow, I really should have caught this sooner. The machine was stitching just fine after making adjustments to the machine, with the Towa 52237 bobbin case it had with it. Looked like a good quality case to me and it stitched in "straight" mode beautifully, so I figured it must be something else causing the stitch problem in zig-zag. After getting an actual Singer manual for the machine which explained two different ways to use the bobbin case (with very bad illustration) in straight or zig-zag modes, I began to wonder if I had the right bobbin case. I found a number on the bobbin case and looked it up. Turns out my bobbin case is indeed for Industrial machines, but it is a Class 95 bobbin. So it would be better suited for my 188K machine. I'm setting it aside!

I ordered three new "pigtail" bobbin cases for my Singer 20U, these will allow me the optional ways to thread the bobbin case for straight or zig-zag stitching. The part number for this style bobbin case that I purchased is: 541678. I had found another part number for it too, which is 410025. Waiting for those bobbin cases to arrive and I plan to set them up different for the various thread types I use. Just a time saver for me as I plan to use the machine for many purposes.

Edited May 26, 2018 by suzelle
spelling

[suzelle]

New Bobbin cases arrived, and I have ordered a few other parts as well to replace every part that was pulled off the machine. Only one more part to purchase, which is a new v-belt. I ordered a 44" belt, which turned out to be too big, so going to try a 42" belt. Waiting for that. I added up all the expenses for the parts I've purchased and it comes to about $150.00, not bad! I've already used the machine for a few projects with the small side mounted motor. Now to try zig zag stitching with the new bobbin cases. I'm happy to say that the heavier springs I put in the tension knob and in the pressure foot have allowed me to sew v-92 bonded poly thread with no problems. Handles it easily! So this machine will be great for canopy and tarp repairs too! I don't use a heavier thread, so that will be fine.

I'm going to use the machine to try some fancy embroidery work too, I will be using some thicker threads than my usual 40 weight that runs on my commercial embroidery machines. If I can get it to do a perfect zigzag stitch, it will be fun for freehand work. I'm wanting to produce something that looks similar to hand embroidered crewel embroidery work on wool and denims - clothing items.

This will be a very versatile machine for me, so glad I purchased it! Will put photos up last when I have my tables and portable/carrier box finished.

[KeriHat]

On 3/24/2018 at 2:35 AM, suzelle said:

The Singer 20U takes industrial needles, you can even set it up as a "twin" needle (I just learned) which can be helpful with a double-stitch look

Hello, did you ever find out how to use your singer 20U as a twin needle? I bought one after coming across your post via google but I can't find the part - twin needle adaptor clamp . It's a great machine for my purposes regardless, but any info will be greatly appreciated!

[Northmount]

6 hours ago, KeriHat said:

The Singer 20U takes industrial needles, you can even set it up as a "twin" needle (I just learned) which can be helpful with a double-stitch look

The manual says 135x9 needle system.  That's not particularly an industrial needle!  Standard domestic system, even though it is in an industrial tailoring machine.

So the standard dressmaking twin needles fit.

 

[KeriHat]

45 minutes ago, Northmount said:

The manual says 135x9 needle system.  That's not particularly an industrial needle!  Standard domestic system, even though it is in an industrial tailoring machine.

So the standard dressmaking twin needles fit.

 

Thank you for the info, very helpful. I didn't realize the 20U was so similar to/compatible with the domestic system.

[suzelle]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:09 AM, KeriHat said:

Hello, did you ever find out how to use your singer 20U as a twin needle? I bought one after coming across your post via google but I can't find the part - twin needle adaptor clamp . It's a great machine for my purposes regardless, but any info will be greatly appreciated!

HI Keri! Sorry I just saw your post. No I haven't set it up to use twin needles. I'm glad you found a 20U, they are nice machines. Mine has not been getting used much, as I have been working on Auto Interiors mostly. I'd like to get back to using the 20U though as I have some creative projects I'd love to do for myself. Looks like "Northmount" answered your questions though, thanks Northmount!

Good luck Keri with your new Singer 20U!!! I'll post here again when I get back to using mine!

[suzelle]

On 9/24/2022 at 12:14 PM, Northmount said:

The manual says 135x9 needle system.  That's not particularly an industrial needle!  Standard domestic system, even though it is in an industrial tailoring machine.

So the standard dressmaking twin needles fit.

 

Hello Northmount, 

Okay, these posts made me pull my Singer 20U33 out to be sure it was an Industrial needle machine, it is. It's a round shank needle, not a flat shank like a Domestic would be.

Going back through the manual too, I have the correct needle in it. LOL. This is an Artisan machine, and I once had another Artisan machine (Consew 217- which is like the Bernina 217) and that machine took same needle as my Singer 20U33. You will notice on the photos of my machine that I posted a few years ago that the front of the machine has a graphic that shows the type of needle it takes, which is "CAT 1910. You will also find in the manual for the Singer 20U33 that the needle system is also referred to as "SY 1955" which is an Industrial needle.

Needles can be confusing, even for me who has many needles and many machines. So I am thinking that perhaps some of the CLONE machines of the Singer 20U take different needles??? Could be what leads to some of the confusion. I once had a Pfaff 138 machine that had been set up for a Domestic style needle for a Home machine, even though the manual I had for it showed an Industrial needle.

Edited September 28, 2022 by suzelle

[suzelle]

On 9/24/2022 at 1:03 PM, KeriHat said:

Thank you for the info, very helpful. I didn't realize the 20U was so similar to/compatible with the domestic system.

Keri,

I just went to check my machine and let Northmount know that my machine does indeed take Industrial needles, round shank. It does not take flat shank /Domestic or Home machine needles. I'm not sure what exact version of the Singer 20U it is that you have. The model that I own is the Singer 20U33. Oh, and I wanted to let you know about the double needle thing you asked me about... Remembering now what went on with that. I actually was not able to find the part (like you) to hold two needles. I have to explore more in that area but haven't done too much with the machine in a creative way. I've used it more for utilitarian type jobs like fixing tarps and tents. One day though, I plan to do more with it! Good luck with yours! Hope that helped a little.

Edited September 28, 2022 by suzelle

[Northmount]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:20 AM, suzelle said:

Keri,

I just went to check my machine and let Northmount know that my machine does indeed take Industrial needles, round shank. It does not take flat shank /Domestic or Home machine needles. I'm not sure what exact version of the Singer 20U it is that you have. The model that I own is the Singer 20U33. Oh, and I wanted to let you know about the double needle thing you asked me about... Remembering now what went on with that. I actually was not able to find the part (like you) to hold two needles. I have to explore more in that area but haven't done too much with the machine in a creative way. I've used it more for utilitarian type jobs like fixing tarps and tents. One day though, I plan to do more with it! Good luck with yours! Hope that helped a little.

Mine is a 20-33 from about 1975.

Used to be on a rusty beat up K-leg table.  My wife wouldn't let it in the house.  So I built a cabinet that can double as furniture.  Take the head off and put it inside the cabinet, drop in a filler piece and throw a runner over it!  So it doesn't look much like an industrial dress/drapery making machine any more.

 

[KeriHat]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:20 PM, suzelle said:

Keri,

I just went to check my machine and let Northmount know that my machine does indeed take Industrial needles, round shank. It does not take flat shank /Domestic or Home machine needles. I'm not sure what exact version of the Singer 20U it is that you have. The model that I own is the Singer 20U33. Oh, and I wanted to let you know about the double needle thing you asked me about... Remembering now what went on with that. I actually was not able to find the part (like you) to hold two needles. I have to explore more in that area but haven't done too much with the machine in a creative way. I've used it more for utilitarian type jobs like fixing tarps and tents. One day though, I plan to do more with it! Good luck with yours! Hope that helped a little.

Hello Suzelle,

thank you for your reply even though it's not exactly what I wanted to hear re: twin needle set up. Mine is also a 20U33 but from the 80's I believe. I like it. My other old industrial Singer doesn't have a reverse or a zigazg for that matter. I had no use for a zigzag before but I do now, so all-in-all I'm happy with my purchase.

I have twin needles already on the way, so I am going to throw caution to the wind and try to see if it will take them - even though everywhere says it won't, just because on the video I saw of someone using her 20U as a double stitch, it definitely looked like a regular needle clamp, as was pointed out to me. I don't think it was 2 needles, which means she could only have been using a domestic twin needle. One can hope anyway. If it works I will for sure post everywhere this question has come up!

[suzelle]

On 9/30/2022 at 2:52 PM, Northmount said:

Mine is a 20-33 from about 1975.

 

 

Used to be on a rusty beat up K-leg table.  My wife wouldn't let it in the house.  So I built a cabinet that can double as furniture.  Take the head off and put it inside the cabinet, drop in a filler piece and throw a runner over it!  So it doesn't look much like an industrial dress/drapery making machine any more.

 

Northmount, I love the look of the Blue ones the best! I always dreamed of getting a Singer 20U, mainly for the wider zig zag feature I'd heard that it had. However, when I was ready to buy, Blue didn't pop up, I got a brown one.  But hey, I'm good with it now, she sews a beautiful stitch so I cannot complain. I like that you found a way to get your Blue Girl in the house, good job!!! You got your Wife's approval!!! LOL. 

[suzelle]

On 9/30/2022 at 5:15 PM, KeriHat said:

Hello Suzelle,

thank you for your reply even though it's not exactly what I wanted to hear re: twin needle set up. Mine is also a 20U33 but from the 80's I believe. I like it. My other old industrial Singer doesn't have a reverse or a zigazg for that matter. I had no use for a zigzag before but I do now, so all-in-all I'm happy with my purchase.

I have twin needles already on the way, so I am going to throw caution to the wind and try to see if it will take them - even though everywhere says it won't, just because on the video I saw of someone using her 20U as a double stitch, it definitely looked like a regular needle clamp, as was pointed out to me. I don't think it was 2 needles, which means she could only have been using a domestic twin needle. One can hope anyway. If it works I will for sure post everywhere this question has come up!

Keri, yeah I was also hopeful (again) about the twin needle or double needle idea after I was reading your posts. I was thinking perhaps that "want" would get answered at last. But not yet, the search continues!!! I sure hope that the domestic twin needle works on yours! Even though I'm certain what needles my machine takes, I don't think I'd ever tried a Domestic or flat shank in it. I just assumed that everything should be a round shank, but now I'm going to experiment! Hey, if it goes into the slot, why not? I won't be dragging the machine out again for a while as I'm in the middle of some Auto Upholstery jobs and some Embroidery work too, but will get back to my Singer 20U in the near future, hopefully! Thanks for the thoughts and ideas!

[CowboyBob]

5 hours ago, suzelle said:

Keri, yeah I was also hopeful (again) about the twin needle or double needle idea after I was reading your posts. I was thinking perhaps that "want" would get answered at last. But not yet, the search continues!!! I sure hope that the domestic twin needle works on yours! Even though I'm certain what needles my machine takes, I don't think I'd ever tried a Domestic or flat shank in it. I just assumed that everything should be a round shank, but now I'm going to experiment! Hey, if it goes into the slot, why not? I won't be dragging the machine out again for a while as I'm in the middle of some Auto Upholstery jobs and some Embroidery work too, but will get back to my Singer 20U in the near future, hopefully! Thanks for the thoughts and ideas!

The 15x1 home machine needle with the flat spot will put the needle closer to the hook & might even hit causing damage to the point.

[shoepatcher]

That machine should have a servo motor on it.  The household motor and foot pedal will get burned up over time.  Not heavy enough.

glenn

[suzelle]

10 hours ago, shoepatcher said:

That machine should have a servo motor on it.  The household motor and foot pedal will get burned up over time.  Not heavy enough.

glenn

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for your comment. I am using the original clutch motor that came with the machine. I just set it up with a household motor temporarily so I could make it portable when needed. I move my machines around in whatever tables or portable boxes I can get them into if I need to travel with a machine. You are right, domestic motor isn't good for daily use, but sometimes it's the answer to get a job done.

[shoepatcher]

yep

glenn

[suzelle]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:33 AM, CowboyBob said:

The 15x1 home machine needle with the flat spot will put the needle closer to the hook & might even hit causing damage to the point.

Thanks Bob! Good to know! Okay, perhaps not a good idea? Bob, do you have some information on where a twin needle or double needle could be found for the Singer 20U machines? Mine is a Singer 20U-33, made in Japan. I'm not sure what year, but probably late 1980's, or early 90's (?). If you have part numbers, that would be great. Thanks ahead!

[suzelle]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:33 AM, CowboyBob said:

The 15x1 home machine needle with the flat spot will put the needle closer to the hook & might even hit causing damage to the point.

Bob, one more thing now that I've got your attention...

I'm attaching part of the photo of my machine that shows what I believe to be the serial number for my Singer 20U-33, I was hoping you could help me identify the year with that number (?) Or anyone who might know, please help. Thank you!