Is a new leather sewing machine economically feasable or are sales to few in the leather business?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

26 minutes ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

So even in the US leather Workers are poorly Paid? 

Among the poorest, and a lot of it is their own damn fault.  I know way too many leatherworkers who are constantly trying to undercut their competition.  All that does is prove to the buying public that a product CAN be made and sold for that low price.  I turn work away nearly every day.  Specific example today, a lady brought in a saddle with the front rigging worn through about half way across.  I gave her a quote and explained why it would be that much.  She asked why I couldn't just "put a strap across the worn part and nail it up there or something".  I explained why I wouldn't do that, not the least of which is I don't want my name associated with work like that.  She stated that my quoted price was more than the saddle was worth, and promised that she wouldn't tell anyone that I did the work.  No can do, I told her that I wouldn't sacrifice my standards for anyone, and agreed with her that the saddle wasn't worth the money it would cost me to fix it, but that doesn't mean that I can work for less money.  My groceries cost the same as everyone else's.  After all these years (27 in business) sometimes I still shake my head at the things people say and ask me to do.  So, even though I stuck to my policy on this job, somewhere, she will probably find someone to do what she wants, and that person is just reinforcing the customer's expectation to do shoddy work for low wages.  This isn't an easy business to be in;  you really have to love what you do, be tough, fair, honest and willing to turn work away that will lose you money, even if it means living poor because of it.  Today's example doesn't happen to me that often anymore.  I sure turn a lot of work away because I'm honest with my customers about cost vs value of the item, but because I have maintained high standards for nearly 3 decades, and have gotten better about saying "NO", most people around here know better than to come to me and want it cheap.  We owe it to ourselves to price our work at a level so that we can make a fair wage above our expenses. 

As far as a sewing machine paying for itself, it depends upon how deep into the trade you want to get.  My first sewing machine was not paid for by money made doing leatherwork.  There was no way for me to get enough done, quickly enough, to save enough cash to buy one.  My thoughts on buying machinery are more along the lines of "That machine will allow me to do more of such and such a job, faster, better, easier, which will allow me to get more done in a day."  Time is money, period.  If I was to evaluate every machine purchase by trying to decide if I would recoup the cost in dollars and cents in a given amount of time, I'd probably still be poking my stitching holes with a nail. I say, if you want a machine, and have the $$, go for it.  You are very limited when stitching by hand.  Best of luck to you!

[Joon1911]

So many different factors to answer this question.  Honestly most of my opinions are going to be irrelevant to your experience in South America.  That being said the basic mathematical equations still hold true.  

1. Who is your intended market and what is that particular market willing to pay for your product?  In the U.S. I’ve found there is a market willing to pay for a truly premium product that I can compare with another similar item that is priced say 50% less than mine and by comparing quality side by side, I can justify the additional expense to my customer.  If they don’t agree, they’re free to find the cost to benefit ratio they’re willing to pay for and I’m willing & able to decline their business if that equation doesn’t work for me.  This is the beauty of the free market economy.

2.  Find the machine that works for your budget.  There and thousands of Singers that are faithfully sewing heavy leather that can be had here in the US for 1/5th what you’d pay for a new CB4500 or Class IV.  I bought a Singer for less than $300 US, used it for several years until I could afford more machine.  The work that the Singer sewed paid for my new Class IV several years ago.   The work that my Class IV is sewing will eventually pay for a needle/awl machine like a Campbell-Randall or a Landis which is my dream machine.  

In reality I was able to sell my Singer for more than I paid for it because I was able to make it run more reliably that when I first bought it.  I doubt I’ll be able to sell my Class IV for more than I paid, but it’s been so reliable I may just keep it for strapwork & belts.  

[RusticLeatherShop]

Thanks Sioux and Joon,

I sencond all you said.

I bought a new CB4500 hoping the market would honour it but to no avail.

But yeah the expectations and posibilities the machine gives me is satisfaction enough. But just for economics sake, IMHO it's a downfall.

[DrmCa]

Colombia is a very strong competitor in leather business worldwide. They turn out amazing quality hides and stunning patterns and stitching. It is nearly impossible to compete with their quality and price. Italy makes goods just as good or better, but at a much higher price. Then there is Mexico, which is just plain outright cheap. India, Pakistan and then China do amazing work for cheap too. This is a very competitive market, while North America wears less and less leather garments and upholstery. Ecoleather (puke...) is replacing genuine leather everywhere, same as particle board replaced genuine wood in furniture. There are too many of us on this planet now, and goods have to be pumped out fast and cheap. Sad.

[chrisash]

Sorry disagree, there will always be a need for quality garments with a good history about them. you need to make a brand and explain it to your public. quality is a hard word to understand but many suggest its to the best you can make it, other may produce something people believe is better and it may or may not be true, but they are all perceived values and that is because they have established a brand and made it well known

Many what we used to call Blue collar workers would probably never buy a £50 leather belt, but the next higher group say middle management would never buy a £10 belt and so on

If you relate to cars, few people ever buy the basic model they all pay for the additional extra packs and have a small badge on the back to say L, or XL, or GT so people will pay extra for a bit of extra luxury 

China, Mexico, India etc all buy goods from Europe and the USA, we sell high value they sell low value

[RusticLeatherShop]

1 hour ago, DrmCa said:

Colombia is a very strong competitor in leather business worldwide. They turn out amazing quality hides and stunning patterns and stitching. It is nearly impossible to compete with their quality and price. Italy makes goods just as good or better, but at a much higher price. Then there is Mexico, which is just plain outright cheap. India, Pakistan and then China do amazing work for cheap too. This is a very competitive market, while North America wears less and less leather garments and upholstery. Ecoleather (puke...) is replacing genuine leather everywhere, same as particle board replaced genuine wood in furniture. There are too many of us on this planet now, and goods have to be pumped out fast and cheap. Sad.

I second that. Didnt know that Columbia (near my Location) does lots in leather works. Over here in this coutry, the very latin fellas are the biggest competition (I myself am of an German offspring and I am Canadian as well; so I am part of the White minority here) and so latins are even happy to live with 5 to 10 US$ per day (thats were Smartphone robberies come from over here since to shoot a Person for their used 100$ Samsung, over here the strongest brand, and sell it for 10$ is a viable income for many people as such as to rob 1 Smartphone per day gives them an reasonable living) while members of the White minority that will not even cover the costs of an CB4500 (I am sure I am the only Person in this Country who has this machine over here).

But then...

...I could never find the exact Holsters, Smartphone cases and pouches in reatail stores I was looking for.

Thats the reason I said "I am gonna do it myself from now on and not gonna waiting for Amazon or local retailers to have it".

Local Holsters and Smartphone cases made here are often riveted which scratches up your phone and precious weaponry once the Fleece/Cloth inside is gone (from weak thread or rubbed through due to use).

[Matt S]

29 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Sorry disagree, there will always be a need for quality garments with a good history about them. you need to make a brand and explain it to your public. quality is a hard word to understand but many suggest its to the best you can make it, other may produce something people believe is better and it may or may not be true, but they are all perceived values and that is because they have established a brand and made it well known

Many what we used to call Blue collar workers would probably never buy a £50 leather belt, but the next higher group say middle management would never buy a £10 belt and so on

If you relate to cars, few people ever buy the basic model they all pay for the additional extra packs and have a small badge on the back to say L, or XL, or GT so people will pay extra for a bit of extra luxury 

China, Mexico, India etc all buy goods from Europe and the USA, we sell high value they sell low value

I wholeheartedly agree with you Chris. People still commission guns from Holland & Holland for 5-figure sums, even though a £200 Baikal will hit birds just as hard. Why? Marketing. A London Best gun, fitted, stocked, engraved and regulated to perfection by a factory full of blokes who have spent decades learning their particular, micro-niche skill-set is a desirable and beautiful thing. There are plenty of small firms hand-making just as beautiful guns as H&H for less money, and lots of larger firms like Beretta and Browning making technically fine guns for even less money. The fact that each of these firms continues to turn a profit tells us that not everyone in the world is looking for the cheapest product they can find.

Who you promote your product to, and how, is the difficult problem -- the 1% that can afford a £100 belt? The 50% who won't pay more than £20? Or the 49% who have £40 spending money, can't find a decent belt in the shops, and understands the expense of buying cheap?

[LetterT]

22 hours ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

Some interesting ideas you guys said.

Over here in Southamerica, wages are somewhat similar to chinese wages as far as I know (Minimum wage is about 360$ to 390$ depending on the Exchange rate, at the Moment it is 375 US$).

It speaks volumes when minimal wage in my country is 230$, average around 400$ (most people never see that much).

Speaking of differences, I have a tannery in my own town from which I can not buy leather. The have been bought by Italians and everything they make now goes to Italy, to become "made in Italy" leather I guess.

End even in this economy I know of one guy who specialize in car upholstery. When someone brings in a BMW to completely re-cover the driver seat for sure he can charge a good price, BMW owner can afford it.

And I even know of two sisters who make ladies bags, often half leather half plastic leather (PU), in very small series to make them unique and they sell for around 50-60$. They have now expanded to employ 5 people.

None of them are millionaires but it shows that even in bad economies there are people finding something in leathercraft to make a decent living.

 

 

 

[chrisash]

That's understandable in low wage countries the people still need to buy goods from the world prices so far more expensive in real terms for things like machines and also local supplies of things like leather, finds the leather tannery selling outside the home country to get the best prices. Even in England there are now few tanneries seeminly as few are prepared to invest in dirty industries that take a year to make a product, so the remaining ones have moved up market

[RusticLeatherShop]

Over here tanneries are not the Problem since many small Family based businesses make the leather in an handcraft Fashion. They are never registred as it seems and Dump any toxics into the rivers as they please. Well in Southamerica bribery is common and a solution for many to stay in business.

Leather shortness I believe is here not the danger, but dangerously low leather goods Prices kill here people like me. Niche markets are the way to go but from that it's not possible to make a living. My employee is an latino and he is selling now his motorcycle just because his seat is gone (the rubberish faux leather), and in order not to fix it, he sells the motorcycle passing along to the buyer the seat Problem (in order to buy a brandnew motorcycle which comes along with a new seat. Basically he buys a new seat which comes attached with an new motorcycle. A new motorcycle is About 1400 US$ worth). To Shell out 50$ to fix the seat people are hesitating to do.