Wallet Edges

[krominix]

5 minutes ago, NVLeatherWorx said:

So, with your responses so far on this topic one would think that you are the person behind the work being talked about. Is that the case?  If so, nice work and it is truly nice.  If not, then please explain to us how you know that, for instance, the stitching is all done by hand.  I say this because those stitching lines, with that standard machine thread, do not look like they are hand stitched, and that is why others have asked that question.  So, if you have more information on this item and would like to help everyone understand it better don't hold back on it.

And, on another note.  I would be very careful making a statement of: Reader beware, there is a lot of false info in this thread.  I say this because you have several very experienced professional leather craftsmen reading the threads throughout this forum and they do occasionally offer some information which is based on years of experience and making a statement of that type is quite offensive to those of us who are not new to this trade.  Just be careful and tread lightly is always a good policy.

This is not my work, although the crafter behind it is a very nice gentlemen who I have spoken with in the past. He sells pricking irons and fine linen sewing thread. I'm actually not certain why its is so unbelievable by some of you that its sewn by hand. There are tons of crafters out there that can produce a saddle stitch that looks like that. I have explained it a couple times earlier in the thread. Its not a secret really, its just not a discipline that is covered on this board frequently. It is an edge paint, no way to know which one he uses unless you ask him. Some of the most popular brands are Fenice, Vernis, Stahl, and Uniters. I have used all of them and they all work well. Ill explain again - You must make sure your edge is perfectly flush - no glue or anything on it. You apply a coat of said paint, and allow it to dry. You then heat the paint on very high heat with an iron - the most popular iron is the Regad machine aka the Filetuese that is made in France. The heating allows it to properly adhere to the leather. After heating you sand on high grit 320, 400, 600, 800 then you apply another coat, allow to dry, heat, sand, repeat until you have an edge that you are comfortable with. 

 

No need to be offended. I just wanted to point out that a lot of members came on here making statements as if they were factual when they were not. This holds back new crafters who are trying to gain a knowledge in a new discipline of the craft. 

[krominix]

10 minutes ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

The blue wallet is definatelly finished with an edge binding attachment with an sewing machine.

Both are done with an sewing machine (the sligthly Offset thread line is tipical of an leather needle). It's #69 or #138 thread (rather #69).

The orange wallets I can not see as clear so I cant know for sure how the edge is done. But as well sewn with an machine.

 

Incorrect.

[RusticLeatherShop]

..sounds like the crafter spent a week on that 1000$ wallet. If he spends lots of time and dedication sure it's an bespoke wallet for around 1000$ sold to Hollywood actors or Wallstreet banksters.

[thefanninator]

I posted the link to his Instagram account.  Here it is again: https://www.instagram.com/zj.handwork/

He's got all kinds of edge photographs - burnished, folded and some painted. Lots of photographs of his pricking irons too.

You can find the prices for his tools and wallets on his website.

http://purelyhandwork.ayh688.com/

 

 

[bikermutt07]

4 minutes ago, thefanninator said:

I posted the link to his Instagram account.  Here it is again: https://www.instagram.com/zj.handwork/

He's got all kinds of edge photographs - burnished, folded and some painted. Lots of photographs of his pricking irons too.

You can find the prices for his tools and wallets on his website.

http://purelyhandwork.ayh688.com/

 

 

Thanks for posting that.

I checked the site and I gotta say, looks like hand stitching to me. And, I'll also say, I wouldn't bat an eye at paying his asking price on those wallets.

They are truly something for me to aspire towards. Just perfect looking.

[RusticLeatherShop]

supposedly thats made of French high Quality leather. 14$ per square feet. It's 2.5 oz leather. If thats true, it's Quality. See here https://www.rmleathersupply.com/products/chevre-chagrin-sully-goat-leather-2-5oz-1-0-mm-made-in-france

Well dunno. Still 223$ for a wallet.

[krominix]

3 minutes ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

supposedly thats made of French high Quality leather. 14$ per square feet. It's 2.5 oz leather. If thats true, it's Quality. See here https://www.rmleathersupply.com/products/chevre-chagrin-sully-goat-leather-2-5oz-1-0-mm-made-in-france

Well dunno. Still 223$ for a wallet.

Yes, I am familiar with Rocky Mountain leather supply. Aaron is a good guy. It’s not if. It is true. It’s ok my friend. You don’t have to believe. 

[RusticLeatherShop]

The edges on some wallets (most of the time he avoided carefully closeup fotos of the edges) are definatelly bound (binder). Actually most of the edges are bound (binding) folded over to the other side and on the other side another leather sewn onto it so it appears painted when it's in reality binding.

However the work is done carefully.

I have no Intention to be "as talented" as that guy. Those wallets are more for City guys and Snobs who like to bragg to their friends to have shelled out 300$ for an wallet. As well 2.5 oz (1.1mm) leather? A Little weak I would say. I use 5 oz leather (1.7mm) for wallets.

But yeah, high priced leather is used which appear almost as faux leather.

[LetterT]

I am no expert but take a look at his own photos of the orange goat leather wallet:

http://purelyhandwork.ayh688.com/product/alran-sully-goatskin-vertical-wallet/

If you scroll down you can see the turned edge and the back side of the stitching.

[niakulah]

5 hours ago, LetterT said:

I am no expert but take a look at his own photos of the orange goat leather wallet:

http://purelyhandwork.ayh688.com/product/alran-sully-goatskin-vertical-wallet/

If you scroll down you can see the turned edge and the back side of the stitching.

I assume you're talking about this particular picture?

The orange is definitely turned. The blue looks painted to me.

And in this picture you can see the turned orange shows the tumbled grain of the orange but the blue does not.

[niakulah]

On 8/28/2018 at 8:37 AM, samNZJP said:

How does he get the lines so straight

If you're talking about the stitching lines, I reckon those 20 tooth irons he makes plays a part. Less likely to meander when your tool is so long.

[RusticLeatherShop]

No it's NOT painted. Look at my enlarged Printscreen.

The outer blue edges are folded in and over top is sewn on the inner leather layer as you can see the fibers.

No painting at all. But seems to be legit French high Quality leather. Otherwise which turns me off that it's chinese. The guy is chinese and sells it trough an chinese Webpage as such as probably etsy.com is banned in China. Be carefull not to fall Prey to a scammer and ripp-off guy.

Chinese like specially to steal wallets so no wonder this guy is selling his 250$ wallets like hot dogs just to be stolen right away again. In Southamerica that mentality is similar to China: rip off foreigners (like selling overpriced items through an governement controlled Website) is considered a chevalry delikt which gets you stars on your comunist uniform.

It's a carefull folding technique to which 2 oz leather lends itself wonderfully. On top he most likely uses glue which I do not use at all.

Edited August 29, 2018 by RusticLeatherShop

[thefanninator]

Where the blue and orange leathers meet is dyed blue and burnished. He's a fine craftsman.

[chrisash]

What on earth has his nationality got to do with anything, so why are you guessing things rather that staying with facts, and if you are silly enough to believe every thing the press states to sell their own products, there is no need to pass it on as a fact

[Matt S]

@RusticLeatherShop for someone who only burnished his first edge this week you sure do speak with a lot of authority. I've done a fair bit of stitching by hand as well as machine and I can tell you for sure those wallets are saddle stitched. They're also stitched with a low-yarn twisted thread with minimal bonding/sizing, probably a 3-yarn polished linen, whereas the vast majority of machine sewing will be done with bonded nylon or polyester.

Further, burnished edges like the blue leather are entirely possible without paint. Notice how it's slightly translucent? Looks like burnished dyed-though veg-tan to me. Compare with the orange of the notes divider, which is definitely folded before being stitched -- not bound but folded. Yes I expect that the maker did use glue, it's bloody useful and results in a better product when properly applied.

If he thinks he can sell a $200-1000 wallet, good luck to him. People are willing to pay for craftsmanship and quality.

[krominix]

13 hours ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

No it's NOT painted. Look at my enlarged Printscreen.

The outer blue edges are folded in and over top is sewn on the inner leather layer as you can see the fibers.

No painting at all. But seems to be legit French high Quality leather. Otherwise which turns me off that it's chinese. The guy is chinese and sells it trough an chinese Webpage as such as probably etsy.com is banned in China. Be carefull not to fall Prey to a scammer and ripp-off guy.

Chinese like specially to steal wallets so no wonder this guy is selling his 250$ wallets like hot dogs just to be stolen right away again. In Southamerica that mentality is similar to China: rip off foreigners (like selling overpriced items through an governement controlled Website) is considered a chevalry delikt which gets you stars on your comunist uniform.

It's a carefull folding technique to which 2 oz leather lends itself wonderfully. On top he most likely uses glue which I do not use at all.

I’m happy that more people came in to help talk to you though I’m certain it will lead to no where. Talking to you is practically useless. You don’t want to learn. Visiting your Etsy shop tells me all I need to know. I feel bad for anyone who may have taken any advice from you and your grossly false info presented as fact. I’m honestly not sure what someone like you can contribute to a board like this. The mods are pretty lenient here so I guess you are in luck. Have fun crafting wallets with 5oz thick leather and no glue. I can just imagine the beauts that they are. 

 

To the OP, sorry your thread turned into this mess of false info. Pick out the good comments and practice, practice, practice. Skill like zj does not come over night and there is true painstaking detail that goes into every step. Think about every step your are going to take and the step after that and the step after that. 

[samNZJP]

49 minutes ago, krominix said:

I’m happy that more people came in to help talk to you though I’m certain it will lead to no where. Talking to you is practically useless. You don’t want to learn. Visiting your Etsy shop tells me all I need to know. I feel bad for anyone who may have taken any advice from you and your grossly false info presented as fact. I’m honestly not sure what someone like you can contribute to a board like this. The mods are pretty lenient here so I guess you are in luck. Have fun crafting wallets with 5oz thick leather and no glue. I can just imagine the beauts that they are. 

 

To the OP, sorry your thread turned into this mess of false info. Pick out the good comments and practice, practice, practice. Skill like zj does not come over night and there is true painstaking detail that goes into every step. Think about every step your are going to take and the step after that and the step after that. 

Thanks Krominix,

I thought it was quite hilarious actually, I've actually watched him saddle stitch live on Instagram live so I know its hand stitched. Mr Rusticleathershop needs to broaden his horizons a bit more I think and check his racism at the door. There are many wealthy Chinese people looking to buy high quality stuff - I see them everyday here in Japan queuing up the department stores and the population is big enough to justify his business model; high quality leather goods.

Anyway, I'm always posting on here because I don't have a mentor/tutor in the region so this is basically where I get all my info. A few more questions have come up though in this thread...

1.  The whole machine/hand sewn debate - I was under the impression you could only hand stitch a saddle stitch?
2. Is the consensus that his edges are:

- Oversized template
- Glue
- Cut to size
- Sand
- Edge
- Water/Saddle soap (No idea how to incorporate or use CVC yet, bought some yesterday though)
- Paint
- Wait to dry...
-Sand
- Repeat
- Seal with wax?

Sam

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by samNZJP

[Matt S]

11 minutes ago, samNZJP said:

The whole machine/hand sewn debate - I was under the impression you could only hand stitch a saddle stitch?

A true saddle stitch can only be achieved by hand, yes. This involves each thread completely passing through the leather to the other side, sometimes passing around the other thread in that hole (an overhand knot -- what people often call a 'cast' thread). Other hand-stitching techniques are possible, such as the back-stitch and the baseball stitch.

[RusticLeatherShop]

Referring to my photo before: That blue edge can not/or is very difficult to paint or burnish without affecting the very Close red leather fibers in the inside.

That should tell me eighter he meticulously spends 1 day in painting/burnishing that edge

or he painted/burnished it before sewing onto the red inside leather

or he just folded the blue leather over and sew the red inline leather onto it.

Eighter way it's a good workmanship which I wont nor would want to copy. The guy must be sitting a weak on a few wallets if they are genuine.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Johanna
politics

[chrisash]

Rustic

Why are you so offensive to others, good manners should be part of your life, you are obviously missing them with your rants that have nothing to do with Leather so should be avoided

[krominix]

1 hour ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

Referring to my photo before: That blue edge can not/or is very difficult to paint or burnish without affecting the very Close red leather fibers in the inside.

That should tell me eighter he meticulously spends 1 day in painting/burnishing that edge

or he painted/burnished it before sewing onto the red inside leather

or he just folded the blue leather over and sew the red inline leather onto it.

Eighter way it's a good workmanship which I wont nor would want to copy. The guy must be sitting a weak on a few wallets if they are genuine.

Yes I am happy this Forum is not located in China since then I would have been arrested already for "dishonouring" the PRC (example if in Chine one guy chops off another persons head in public space nobody interveens but all try to "save their face" till the Police arrives after 1 hour. In the free USA any bystander would at least call the Police if not help you fisically. Thats the difference in an Christian backed culture versus an atheistic communistic type Society. I have lived in Canada and in Southamerica, so similarities are there to China regards Southamerica and Northamerica is a total other world).

Thats why I say allways: Trump is an Piece of junk (his father was a Pimp isnt it?) as a private Person, but his politics are spot on right and Long overdue.

Not sure what politics, trump, or China’s government has to do with an amazingly talented maker who happened to be born in China, not by choice. You are the textbook definition of delusional. 

Also, quit lying to yourself.  You couldn’t make a wallet look 1/4 as nice as zj’s if you took a whole year working on a single wallet. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by krominix

[Matt S]

1 hour ago, RusticLeatherShop said:

Referring to my photo before: That blue edge can not/or is very difficult to paint or burnish without affecting the very Close red leather fibers in the inside.

That should tell me eighter he meticulously spends 1 day in painting/burnishing that edge

or he painted/burnished it before sewing onto the red inside leather

or he just folded the blue leather over and sew the red inline leather onto it.

Eighter way it's a good workmanship which I wont nor would want to copy. The guy must be sitting a weak on a few wallets if they are genuine.

Yes I am happy this Forum is not located in China since then I would have been arrested already for "dishonouring" the PRC (example if in Chine one guy chops off another persons head in public space nobody interveens but all try to "save their face" till the Police arrives after 1 hour. In the free USA any bystander would at least call the Police if not help you fisically. Thats the difference in an Christian backed culture versus an atheistic communistic type Society. I have lived in Canada and in Southamerica, so similarities are there to China regards Southamerica and Northamerica is a total other world).

Thats why I say allways: Trump is an Piece of junk (his father was a Pimp isnt it?) as a private Person, but his politics are spot on right and Long overdue.

My parents taught me that there are certain topics which shouldn't be discussed in polite company. Religion and politics are right at the top of that list. This is a forum for the discussion of leatherwork, not a soapbox for your views on this, that and the other.

Just because you don't know how such an item can be crafted it doesn't mean it can't be done. I seriously doubt he spends a whole day painting or burnishing a wallet, unless he takes a 6 hours lunch break. If it takes you a whole day to burnish two foot of edge perhaps you should go read all the advice you've been given recently. Very experienced leatherworkers have shared their years of wisdom with you.

[Stetson912]

Wellp, that was interesting. Thanks to everyone who commented to help the OP. We enjoy helping people who want to listen and learn. 

For rustic, I'm not sure what the issue is and I don't care, but this forum isn't the place for your political and religious rants. And for someone claiming to be a part of a "Christian backed culture" you aren't practicing your Christianity all that well. 

China is not atheistic either, budhissm taoism, and Confucianism are all practiced heavily there, as are I'm sure many other religions. 

I strongly advise that you take criticism with a grain of salt and apply it towards bettering yourself, lose your pride and arrogance(pride being one of the 7 deadly sins btw... FOR SHAME!), and the sooner you accept that you don't know as much as you think you do you'll realize it's easier to learn new things. That goes for life not just leatherwork.

also, you'll find that on this form; with the former suggestions applied to your character, that the real skilled Craftsman who know a thing or two will be willing to help. Otherwise your list of resources will dwindle to null. 

@samNZJP, there are different techniques for edging and I'm in no place to say what's best or not, it's all relative to what leather you're using and what works for you personally. If you use paint you will need to sand inbetween layers and at the end wax it. Some use heat too, which is effective. 

Burnishing: Bob parks method is steadfast. But play around and find what works for you. I like to use water with a bit of dawn soap in it. Doesn't take much. Daub it on the edge and rub with a wood slicker. Then another coat of water and burnish again with canvass. Then I dye the edge if I want too. And another coat of water and burnish with canvass. Repeat with canvass as much as you want. To seal, rub some beeswax on the edge and rub it in with canvass or wood slicker. OR, use an acrylic sealer like resolene or... Mop n glo! Vioala! Hope that helps some 

[samNZJP]

Thanks, I think there are some intricacies I need to investigate. For example, amount of water, time slicking and grit # on sand paper and gluing techniques. Recently I’ve been getting black lines which show the splits between layers after burnishing so I think glue/sand paper might have something to do with that.

 

lastly, I use bobs method and follow it to a T, but what the hell is the difference between fiebings saddle soap (the paste found in the round tin) and fiebings saddle soap glycerin?

 

sam 

[Stetson912]

The glycerine soap is a transparent orange bar that contains glycerine. The paste, to my knowledge, does not have glycerine. The glycerine soap resembles the neutragena bars you find in the stores. Might even be the same stuff idunno. I've used the paste and it's been effective. The trick is to put a drop or two of water in the tin and get a lather going with your finger. Then just dab some of that foam on the edge and work it in. 

Lately tho, as I've mentioned, I've omitted saddle soap and have been using g just water with a squirt of dawn dish soap and that's been working fine too. But, try them out and see what you like best. That's the only way you'll figure it out haha.

Sanding I don't do much of. I use 80-120 grit and sand the edges so they are flush with each other. Then I bevel and slick. 

Slicking time varies as all leather is different. It isn't so much time as what to look for. When you burnish you want to feel the edge after, if it feels rough still keep going. Of it's smooth stop and move to the next section. I like to move around a piece completely before going to the next pass. That way, where I started the first pass is dry and you can start over again. You need multiple passes because when it dries some fibers don't stay put haha. 

As for how wet, the answer is not very. Heat and friction cause the edge to burnish. I take a dawber and dip it in my soap solution, and just run it briskly down the edge once or twice then get to it. 

Gluing: I haven't had an issue with glue honestly. I use contact cemented all the way to the edge. It may be a problem if it isn't 100% dry. Or if you get it on the edge. But typically sanding the edge flush solves that problem. You can stop just shy of the edge when you glue pieces together, that may solve your issue. Maybe just 1/16" is all it needs in from the edge. 

Check out don't gonzalez on YouTube, he uses glycerine soap and has a burnishing video.