Gluing a split

[CutThumb]

Hi all, 

I got to the stage of having cut out, and carved, a notebook cover before I spotted this half inch split. Note to self - check the bloody leather before you start! Anyway, am planning on gluing it with rubber cement. Should I do this before or after dyeing? Or should I use something else altogether? I’m going to dye with Fiebings pro, and use a leather conditioner afterwards. As always, all advic gratefully received. 

 

[rodneywt1180b]

Ok.  I replied to the wrong thread.  I'll edit that. I see now why you didn't notice it.  It's not as bad as I thought. 

Will the back side show?  I would seriously consider a thin liner on the inside.  I can't help with the dye question. 

[battlemunky]

Rubber cement/Tanner's Bond type stuff works reeeeally well. I'd imagine it would hold pretty well and for a long time. I'd do it before dying it. Maybe a stitch or two could be used without detracting from the piece as well, a talking point perhaps? It'd all depend on the customer I suppose.

[Sheilajeanne]

Yeah, if you can arrange your piece so there is a stitch line over the edge of the split, I imagine that would help keep it in place. I'd be careful when burnishing though - too much pressure might cause the split to open up again.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Sheilajeanne

[CutThumb]

Great advice, thanks. I could sew a pocket into the back, as it’s a travelling journal and, hey, pockets... Yeah the guy will be cool about it, he’s a friend. No way I could not use it as it’s currently the best bit of carving I’ve done to date, somewhat typically.

 

And Rodney, don’t know how I double posted! My iPad does random stuff whenever it feels like it!

[Northmount]

Any glue/cement that is visible won't dye.  So I would dye whatever is visible first.

Tom

[rodneywt1180b]

39 minutes ago, Northmount said:

Any glue/cement that is visible won't dye.  So I would dye whatever is visible first.

Tom

That's my experience with wood glue and finishes too.  The glue seals the pores and won't let any stains or dyes penetrate.

[VabaX]

If you're planning on burnishing that edge, I would steer well clear of any kind of rubber glue or contact cement, and its does not like being burnished over when its present in thick quantities (eg, any thicker than very light smear).

I would use standard white wood glue, as it sands away easily and offers no issues to being burnished over. you'll just have to clamp it down for a short while as it dries.

[CutThumb]

8 hours ago, VabaX said:

If you're planning on burnishing that edge, I would steer well clear of any kind of rubber glue or contact cement, and its does not like being burnished over when its present in thick quantities (eg, any thicker than very light smear).

I would use standard white wood glue, as it sands away easily and offers no issues to being burnished over. you'll just have to clamp it down for a short while as it dries.

Ah, Ok. Yes I was intended on burnishing. I’ll give the wood glue a go, thanks.

[Constabulary]

This is most likely not a qualified answer - but - has someone ever tried Transglutaminase (so called "meat glue") for gluing leather?  Wild idea I know... Just wondering... 

[bermudahwin]

7 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

This is most likely not a qualified answer - but - has someone ever tried Transglutaminase (so called "meat glue") for gluing leather?  Wild idea I know... Just wondering... 

That's intruiging, if you look at the way chefs use it for binding proteins, it should work, if there are residual proteins after tanning.

If it has enough shear strength, even if the bonding worked, would be another factor.

H

[CutThumb]

Also, on a scale of things I’m likely to have in my tool cupboard, wood glue is winning... Sounds intriguing though.

[Northmount]

17 minutes ago, CutThumb said:

Also, on a scale of things I’m likely to have in my tool cupboard, wood glue is winning... Sounds intriguing though.

Make sure it is white glue, not yellow.  White stays flexible.  Yellow doesn't so cracks some each time it is bent.

Tom

[battlemunky]

mmmmm, meat glue.

Meat glue, it's what's for dinner.

How have I never heard of meat glue? Off to the googles!

[Constabulary]

Have seen this several times on German TV. Meat industry is making larger meat pieces from smaller (scrap) pieces for increasing their profit. Thats nothing new and not too unusual but they don´t make this public of course. I think it´s forbidden on my side of the pond but you never know - meat industry can be "filthy". Few years ago they found horse meat in Bolognese sauce.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=7JHYW-7mPO6grgTH2Ipg&q=meat+glue&oq=meat+glue&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0j0i22i30k1l9.3362.5629.0.14376.9.9.0.0.0.0.163.1316.0j9.9.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.9.1305...0i131k1j0i10k1.0.ycemmyZFKSM

Was just an idea in terms of leather

Edited October 30, 2018 by Constabulary

[Matt S]

55 minutes ago, hwinbermuda said:

That's intruiging, if you look at the way chefs use it for binding proteins, it should work, if there are residual proteins after tanning.

If it has enough shear strength, even if the bonding worked, would be another factor.

There's a few papers that address using the stuff in the tanning process but nothing readily available about its use in leathercrafting. Cheapest I've found is £9 for 100g on Amazon. I might be tempted to experiment.

[bermudahwin]

It would be good to see the results

Harry

[billybopp]

I've never used meat glue, and had never seen or heard of it until recently in this video:

 

[Constabulary]

and thats just one sample - I´m pretty sure we eat a lot of stuff we better don´t know of or the food industry / lobbyists makes us belief its "safe" to eat w/o knowing long term issues / side effects.

But that`s all off topic

[CutThumb]

9 hours ago, Constabulary said:

and thats just one sample - I´m pretty sure we eat a lot of stuff we better don´t know of or the food industry / lobbyists makes us belief its "safe" to eat w/o knowing long term issues / side effects.

But that`s all off topic

Equally off-topic, I see you work with military canvas.... do you know if it’s possible to dye a haversack? The old type, I think it’s canvas webbing, but I don’t know the lingo.

[Sheilajeanne]

When I spent a summer working in a factory, we used hot glue made from horse's hooves for gluing the covers on cardboard binders. It came in a package of a solid gelatin type substance. We'd unwrap it and put it in the glue machine where it would melt into a liquid. It looked sort of like the gel left in the casserole after cooking chicken.

Okay, we were TOLD it was from horses' hooves, but as there was nothing on the package to say what was in it, it might have been some other animal byproduct.

[rodneywt1180b]

Hide glue (glue made from hides) has been around a very long time and is still used by some wood workers.  I think luthiers use it a lot in their work.  I don't think it's flexible so not good for this application.

[Sheilajeanne]

Actually, it WAS flexible when in the package at room temperature. It felt kind of like really stiff Jello. It only got sticky when heated. We'd wash it off our tools with water, and I remember it was kind of gummy in its dry state, not brittle.

[Constabulary]

On 1.11.2018 at 6:31 PM, CutThumb said:

Equally off-topic, I see you work with military canvas.... do you know if it’s possible to dye a haversack? The old type, I think it’s canvas webbing, but I don’t know the lingo.

depends on if it has been treated or not. Untreated canvas can be re-dyed. The US military re-dyed a lot of webbing equipment after WWII (or probably late in the war already) from OD#3 (aka khaki) to OD#7 (aka olive green). If the canvas has been thread with stuff like CANVAK (waterproof treatment - feels waxy sometimes) or it is marked MRT (Mildew Resistant Treatment) you cannot dye it or the result will not turn out as expected. I heard sometimes that "light treated" canvas can be pretreated with clear vinegar so it takes the new dye better but I actually never tried this.

Usually haversacks (if we are talking about M-1910 or M-1928 haversacks) are untreated.

So a general statement is not possible - it depends...

Edited November 3, 2018 by Constabulary

[Dwight]

Personally, . . . I would prop the split open, . . . dab a VERY LITTLE BIT of Weldwood contact cement to both sides, . . . dry with my heat gun, . . . press together, . . . and roll out with a seam roller.

Next step would be a 2 inch long by 1 inch wide piece of fabric, . . . again, . . . Weldwood would be used to apply the fabric to the back side.

Be very careful about not letting any of the wet glue get up to the hair side of the leather, . . . it will not dye as previously stated.  

This WILL WORK, . . . white glue will probably squeeze through the crack, ruining the whole thing, . . . yellow is not a good choice, . . . and the meat glue is totally unknown to me.

May God bless,

Dwight