Looking for cylinder arm for leatherbag making. Necchi 840-100

[luxuryluke]

Thank you, @Bugstruck! Your advice is wise. I'm taking a bit to get used to this machine, but will spend another moment re-reading the posts by @Wizcrafts about machine thoughts: 

Very wise words, Wiz!

[Bugstruck]

Well you are reading info from the right guy. Wiz is a wealth of knowledge and good advice. If I come across as wise it is fully attributable to all the sharp tacks around here and the contributing machine vendors and real Leatherworkers who really know their stuff. Very helpful group of people and I'm thankful for what they contributed to my knowledge base. Always learning something new.

[dikman]

Needle positioners and speed reducers generally don't go together. There is at least one servo that was mentioned in a thread somewhere that would work (to a point).

[luxuryluke]

Absolutely, @Bugstruck. Also, thanks for clearing up my suspicions, @dikman. 

I’ve ordered the Consew 3000 servo and just in case that’s not slow enough, I’m ordering the reducer.

I spoke with Bob at Toledo IndSew and I’m going to install his 3/6/9 speed reducer. He is very helpful. Recommended. 

More updates soon.

[luxuryluke]

Hello, @Gregg From Keystone Sewing, Great to find that you’re on here! Do you think there’s any chance this might fit my 355 style machine? Let me know if I should take a pic. I’d appreciate your advice. It’s been troublesome finding a flip down roller guide for my machine (no screw holes).

https://store.keysew.com/parts/sewing-parts/gr1245-spring-edge-guide-foot-set

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

9 hours ago, luxuryluke said:

Hello, @Gregg From Keystone Sewing, Great to find that you’re on here! Do you think there’s any chance this might fit my 355 style machine? Let me know if I should take a pic. I’d appreciate your advice. It’s been troublesome finding a flip down roller guide for my machine (no screw holes).

https://store.keysew.com/parts/sewing-parts/gr1245-spring-edge-guide-foot-set

Thanks for asking, Necchi does appear to be the same, but I'm not 100 percent sure. 

[luxuryluke]

Thanks for the info, @Gregg From Keystone Sewing. I’m on the lookout. 

• So, yes, looking for the best way to have an edge guide for consistent results.
• I’m also looking to make a table adapter for my machine. Currently the options on the table are sheet aluminum or steel.
• servo arrives tomorrow!
• Ordered the SP2 speed reducer from Bob @ Toledo IndSew. It’s not on his website but he has them at a great price. ;
• spent some time doing stitch lessons and getting accurate on the machine. I’m a noobie but I’m learning. Cylinder arm is the way to go for me!

 

[luxuryluke]

• Servo rocks! Very happy with it. 
• Tinkered with urethane round belting instead of round leather or v belts. This is much nicer!
• Speed reducer arrived! Installing it now. Thanks, Bob @ Toledo.
• Table adapter designed and ordered to be laser cut and etched in stainless steel.
• Mostly disassembled the needle and bobbin area, tested a few different presser feet and feed dog setups. Cleaned it all up and aligned the parts anew. 
• Problem: Trying to detect what needle is in there since I’m not sure it’s correct but I seem to need a jeweler’s loupe to see it. Tiny letters!
• Problem: the hook is kissing the needle, strangely even more when no thread is threaded in. Need more research. It’s hitting the area below the cutout.
• Testing out some Serabond 30 (size T90) thread from a friend at an upholstery shop from way back (Josh @ Relicate Leather)
• Have read a lot more of @Wizcrafts generous wisdom articles. There’s always more to learn.
• More sewing excercises! Hand eye coordination. Thanks for reading.

[Bugstruck]

Found this. May be some help on the needle type. Start there. May have the right needle in it now and may not. Need the right needle to calibrate it.

https://www.industrialsewing.co.uk/industrial-sewing-machines/needle-feed/necchi-840-136-industrial-cylinder-arm-needle-feed-machine

 

[Bugstruck]

135x17 is the same as DpX17 as I recall. 

[luxuryluke]

On 3/21/2019 at 5:44 PM, Bugstruck said:

135x17 is the same as DpX17 as I recall. 

Oh, thank you so much! Where do y’all buy needles these days?

Also, I’m guessing the leather version of this needle is the 135x16? 

Edited March 24, 2019 by luxuryluke

[Wizcrafts]

4 hours ago, luxuryluke said:

Oh, thank you so much! Where do y’all buy needles these days?

Also, I’m guessing the leather version of this needle is the 135x16? 

Precisely! Good guess. Walking foot system 135x16/17 are sold everywhere industrial sewing machines and their needles are sold, both online and offline. I happen to get most of mine from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. Other times I simply buy a pack or two on ebay. Be sure to check out the titanium coated needles if you sew through 3M leather tape or glue.

[shoepatcher]

I would also try Steve at Cobra.  He is in your neck of the woods.

glenn

[luxuryluke]

Thanks, fellas. I've ordered five different sizes in that needle.

Updates:

• Hopefully will find the right needle size that works well on my machine and T90 thread.
• Then I'll try to find a needle size that works well on my machine for T135, as well.
• The Serabond outdoor thread from Germany is awesome
• The speed reducer from Bob @ Toledo is awesome
• The servo motor with slow start feature is awesome. I'm now operating at 1000rpm with ease after hours of practice with this feature in use. Recommended.
• the round urethane belting is awesome. No issues. Let me know if you'd like to learn more.
• the stainless steel plate for a table adapter is AWESOME. Might need to add some pipe clamping underneath it for stability, round the edges with a tool, polish the edges, too. Pics soon!
• Might need a new table top to convert this standard KLegs table into a Space Saver cylinder style table. It's too big and can't take full advantage of the cylinder with it as is. Maybe a 18" x 24" 1.5"thick butcher block will help me make quick work of it. This may take a while.
• The presser feet with an included spring guide that i found at relatively low cost are too high. Dremeling it may or may not work for what I'm after. Perhaps just the magnetic seam guide for now.

Edited March 25, 2019 by luxuryluke

[luxuryluke]

So five packs of different thicknesses of needles arrived for use with my T90 and T138 thread. It turns out that the 135x16 leather needles are a tad too long and hit the bobbin case outer preventing full sewing action, and I tested it inside the cavity of the bobbin at bottom dead center (correct?) as well and it hits that, too, preventing furth rotation. I should’ve taken a pic to show the needle length difference but I took a trip to a sunny beach instead. 

It seems to me that the proper size needle is somewhere in between the two. The “scarf” area on the current short needle is too high when the hook drops by to grab the thread loop. Consequently the hook is hitting the fat sharp end of the needle (just barely) instead. 

I’ll post pics when I return.

Edited March 30, 2019 by luxuryluke

[dikman]

Sounds like the needle bar needs re-adjusting.

[luxuryluke]

15 hours ago, dikman said:

Sounds like the needle bar needs re-adjusting.

That’s a great point. This could be the next step, for sure. I’m certainly familiarizing myself with the mechanics of the machine. 

Thanks!

[luxuryluke]

So, after another semi-thorough cleaning, disassembly, oiling, reassembly, and inspection of the mechanics in the needlebar  and bobbin case/hook areas, I did determine that the needle bar could be adjusted to fit the standard walking foot needle size of 135x16L on this machine. After this, I've noticed:

1. At top dead center, the needlebar does top out by kissing the top of the case, so it really can't be raised anymore.
2. At bottom dead center, it doesn't hit the center of the hook assembly inside the needle gap.
3. The needle is now closely aligned to have the hook enter the scarf of the needle at the right timing and sews well with no noise or breakages

The result is that the effective stitch length is not near what it was before with the previously installed needle by the previous owner. At the longest stitch setting it went from almost 5 stitches per inch up to around 6+ stitches per inch.

I'm sure it's the geometry of the changes a new needle size made to the setup, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether the new setup is better or not for the machine. I do know that this likely isn't the correct needle for this machine, but it's working really well at this point (badump).

Below you'll see that the booklet I have specs it as a 134 needle system. Thoughts?

 

[luxuryluke]

Bump.

I removed the 136X16 needles that were too long and put the original back in. Back in business. 
But I can’t seem to find where to buy this needle. This is most likely a Pfaff 335 clone/variant. 
Any other thoughts out there?

[RockyAussie]

2 hours ago, luxuryluke said:

Bump.

I removed the 136X16 needles that were too long and put the original back in. Back in business. 
But I can’t seem to find where to buy this needle. This is most likely a Pfaff 335 clone/variant. 
Any other thoughts out there?

Not sure if this will help but you may be able to measure the needle and ask on here - https://www.schmetzneedles.com/needle-facts-how-to-read-the-needle-package-2/

[SARK9]

11 hours ago, luxuryluke said:

I removed the 136X16 needles that were too long and put the original back in. Back in business. 
But I can’t seem to find where to buy this needle. This is most likely a Pfaff 335 clone/variant. 
Any other thoughts out there?

The 134 system is a common needle I use on a couple of fabric-type machines....The "R" designation indicates ROUND POINT style. It comes in other points for leather etc. My Singer 20U33 and Pfaff 481 both use this system. Some of the other confusing systems can be seen in the photo attached:

-DC

[luxuryluke]

Thank you @RockyAussie and @SARK9!

I think I understand it now. I found some Groz Beckert needles of type 134-35 LR , size 21 (or Metrix 130) for my T135 size poly thread. It says it fits Adler and Pfaff machines of a wide range including the 335 and 1245 pfaffs. Let’s hope this works. 
Now to wait for shipping. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by luxuryluke
Updated w photo

[modanistil]

Hi was looking at the same machine but for much less. Have you done any projects with it? Is it a true triple feed? Can you use tex 500 tread with it?

[ryano]

32 minutes ago, modanistil said:

Hi was looking at the same machine but for much less. Have you done any projects with it? Is it a true triple feed? Can you use tex 500 tread with it?

Tex 500 is way to heavy for this machine, 134 is about the heaviest thread. Here is a site that will explain industrial thread:

https://www.servicethread.com/blog/industrial-sewing-thread-sizes-explained

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by ryano

[modanistil]

32 minutes ago, ryano said:

Tex 500 is way to heavy for this machine, 134 is about the heaviest thread. Here is a site that will explain industrial thread:

https://www.servicethread.com/blog/industrial-sewing-thread-sizes-explained

 

So woud it go with a tex 380? Amann serabraid as reference.Sorry not smart enough for this.