Overwhelmed by leather Sewing machines

[Starwind0]

Hey ya'll. So I want my first leather sewing machine. I do leather working for fun. a ton of double sided straps and belts, wallets, and I want to make a few personal bags. I think i can justify a sewing machine if I can also use it for non leather goods, which is a topic that I do not see covered (or maybe its thats what "adjustable presser distance" means). In addition I live in apartments, and while my current place is sound proof I plan to move out in a few months

Originally I had been stalking craigslist but I am not seeing a machine that is the right fit

 

All I really know is I need 1) a band where I can get parts easily, and is reliable. 2) Easy to use... but I build 3d printers for fun so by easy I mean less likely to end up sewn to my leather. 3) If it is a cylinder arm, that it has a flat table adjustment... and 4) has a quite type of motor. I want to spend 800 if it was used and 1500ish if it was new. I don't think I could easily justify 2k as I can build a CNC for around that.
Is there anything else I am missing? Suggestions ideas? I am just overwhelmed, and frankly sick of these obviously sponsored youtube videos. I know there are likely similar questions but I didn't see any talking about doing non leather as well. 

 

Thanks!

[kgg]

Take a trip to your local brick /mortar dealer with samples of your stuff and see what fits your needs / budget. Used machines look for brand names like Juki, Singer, Pfaff, Alder etc. be wary of clone machines. New machines look for a reputable dealer with a excellent track record as close to you as possible. If you want a machine up and running then stay away from buying online from certain sites unless you are prepared to do your own assembly / repairs with little or no support. Remember no machine will do everything but initially choose one that does most of your stuff in your price range.

kgg

[chrisash]

Make sure you get a servo motor as the clutch ones are noisy and constantly on

Industrial machines are very heavy 30kg is not unusual, might be easier getting a low cost domestic model for the non leather sewing rather than trying to find a industrial which will do light work and leather

[kgg]

I agree with chrisash on servo motor and weight. It is nice to have machines setup to do basically one function and I do find that with the compound feed I have if I have to do something light and am to lazy to dig out a lighter machine I have to be really careful and really dump down the Juki 1451S.

kgg

[TacticallySharp]

Look a the vendors at the top of the site...

I like the Cobra Class 3 for all my work. Call Steve the owner, and he will help you find the best one in your budget range for you. Even if its brand not carried by him. In some instances he may be able to help you find financing that will help you, especially if you have enough to put down to get as low a rate as possible. Hope this helps you...

[TonyRV2]

I just recently went through this same dilemma and asked much the same question, as have countless others apparently have, as to what the "best machine" for sewing leather would be. I was duly thrashed for my ignorance. Well, perhaps thrashed is too strong a word. There is no one machine that is going to do everything, which explains the variety of styles of machines...posts, cylinders, and flat beds basically. I'm certainly no expert when it comes to sewing machines, but I can relate what I've learned so far. Post and cylinder style machines are for thicker leathers, flat bed for thinner leather. All machines have limits as to the size of thread and the thickness of leather that they can handle. It behooves you to study thread sizes and the typical threads that are used for the projects that you do. That, and the thicknesses of the leather you use will give you a better insight as to which machine will best suit your immediate needs. More than a few people said that I should start off with a cylinder arm machine like a Cobra 4 or a Cowboy CB3200 or CB4500. These machines are well suited to the knife sheaths, belts and holsters that I make. Not so well suited though for my thinner projects like handbags and such. I did wind up purchasing a Cowboy CB3200 knowing it was limited on the thin stuff down to about 6oz of stacked leather with a comfortable minimum thread size of #138 thread. It will sew up to 5/8" of stacked leather.  I then went ahead and also purchased a Juki 1541 flatbed machine for the thinner stuff. It's good for up to 3/8" material but more importantly, it will handle very thin materials as well and can use #69 up to #138 thread, so its a great complement to the other machine.
Both machines have servo drives which is important in terms of being quiet and also for speed control. The Cowboy also has a speed reducer which makes stitching slowly, but still with a lot of torque, very easy. I also looked over the used market for months before just purchasing new machines. Cylinder arm machines are a rarity, and most flatbeds looked to me like they'd been run through the mill. I finally fell back on an old lesson I'd learned many times before...buy once, cry once.

[bikermutt07]

As long as you aren't doing holsters..... The consew 206rb comes to mind I have a 206rb-1. The last number mostly deals with the oiling system. Mine is a wicking style. 

The newer ones have a pump which may or may not run enough to properly oil the machine since we sew leather slowly. 

I'm totally not an expert. I'm actually still pretty terrified of it and the 3200 I have. 

Just some of my thoughts. The consew on the used market can be pretty cost effective and most of the accessories (that I know of) are commonly available as singer 111 parts.

It will sew 169 top and bottom and see 207 on top with 169 on bottom. 

Both of these threads should be suitable for common belts and straps, but not tack.

[JSage]

If you haven't, read this post by "Wizcrafts"

" The Type Of Sewing Machine You Need to Sew Leather"

 Posted under leather sewing machines. Its a wealth of information and may answer some of your questions. Was a great help to me.

 

JD

[kgg]

3 hours ago, bikermutt07 said:

It will sew 169 top and bottom and see 207 on top with 169 on bottom.

Did you mean V69 rather then 169?

kgg

[bikermutt07]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

Did you mean V69 rather then 169?

kgg

Sorry, no. I meant 138. 

[Starwind0]

On 6/27/2019 at 6:10 AM, kgg said:

Take a trip to your local brick /mortar dealer with samples of your stuff and see what fits your needs / budget.

I went to a few stores that sold sewing machines, I didn't find any industrials. Do I need to look for a different kind of store? 

I seem to get recommended the consews the most. I do want to note, I see a few recommendations to do financing. The issue is more about how much I spend on something I do for fun. 

I seen this video

But his machine is too professional for me. I just like that it has the flat bed attachment. 3.5k is just not happening. Also like I said I don't trust youtube recommendations haha. 

 

I'll look more into the ones you all posted, thanks guys!

Edited June 29, 2019 by Starwind0

[dikman]

Yes, you're looking in the wrong stores, places that sell domestic machines are unlikely to also sell industrial.

"Too professional"? By definition industrial machines are professional machines.

If you're concerned about recommendations etc the best thing would be to contact the sponsors on this site, they will give you honest advice, based on what you tell them you want to do.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Starwind0 said:

I went to a few stores that sold sewing machines, I didn't find any industrials. Do I need to look for a different kind of store?  

You may have to go to a larger city like Houston to find a industrial sewing machine dealer. Do a search for industrial sewing machine dealer by city and you should be able to narrow it down. You may have to do a little road trip, I travelled four hours each way to get the right machine at the right price from a dealer that I felt was competent / professional. Could have gotten the same new machine about a hour away but didn't feel confident about the dealer and the difference in price was considerable, well worth the drive.

kgg

[TonySFLDLTHR]

Here is a little video we did on our base machine. If you want to give us a call and we would be happy to help point you in directions. Just ask for help with sewing machines. Sometimes Rusty and Kevin even take the call to help. If we don’t have what you need we can certainly help you locate your next step. 

 

[blue duck]

5 hours ago, Starwind0 said:

. I just like that it has the flat bed attachment.

This is a great option, but it is an easy add on later. @Uwe is a member here and has some really nice ones. But I don't know much more than that.

[Wizcrafts]

You will find a very well stocked and knowledgeable industrial sewing machine dealer up in Arlington, Texas; Solar Leather Machines. There is another industrial sewing machine dealer in Conroe, Tx, Campbell-Randall Co.

[Starwind0]

9 hours ago, blue duck said:

This is a great option, but it is an easy add on later. @Uwe is a member here and has some really nice ones. But I don't know much more than that.

True I mean, its just wood, I could make it myself fairly easily. 

[Starwind0]

14 hours ago, dikman said:

Yes, you're looking in the wrong stores, places that sell domestic machines are unlikely to also sell industrial.

"Too professional"? By definition industrial machines are professional machines.

If you're concerned about recommendations etc the best thing would be to contact the sponsors on this site, they will give you honest advice, based on what you tell them you want to do.

Haha well like 3d printers. You have the 200 dollar garbage kit to the tinker toys like the Dremel 3d printer, or the flashforge dreamers. (200 to 600) Them you have high end consumer printers like the Ultmaker 2+ extended like I have, the flash forge creator pros (have 2), etc etc which are in the 1-3k range. Then you get to the ultimaker s5, which is in the prosumer level and no one like me should every buy, they are like 6k. (3d printers are a bad example as true pro printer is 50k to millions)
I want the Ultmaker2+, its older doesn't have the current top of the line garbage, but man that thing never has issues. Years later and its only needed one major maintenance.  I need the sewing equivalent haha. 

14 hours ago, kgg said:

You may have to go to a larger city like Houston to find a industrial sewing machine dealer. Do a search for industrial sewing machine dealer by city and you should be able to narrow it down. You may have to do a little road trip, I travelled four hours each way to get the right machine at the right price from a dealer that I felt was competent / professional. Could have gotten the same new machine about a hour away but didn't feel confident about the dealer and the difference in price was considerable, well worth the drive.

kgg

Yeah, that would be hard for me. I think I leave Austin 2-3 times a year haha. I also have a sedan, so I wouldn't be able to get a machine in my car with a table, less it was really broken down. Well maybe.. But regardless, 6 hours driving just to check it out, 100+ bucks in gas, and a hotel room.. At that point I may as well give in and pay new, I hate to say :-(( That said I will see if there is any swing dance events, and maybe I can justify it...

[bikermutt07]

You may want to revisit some of those domestic stores. My consew came from a domestic store that does repairs. It had been fixed and never picked up. The owner just really wanted his service fee back out of it. A friend was going to purchase it, but the repair guy wound up having an Adler my friend liked better. 

It may have been a unique opportunity, but that doesn't mean it can't work for you too.

Edited June 30, 2019 by bikermutt07

[Starwind0]

Yeah I am getting frustrated. Even if I wanted a random Juki or Consew, it looks like my options are dealing with mom n pop stores, and driving a day, stalking craigslist for 2 months and hope it works, or risk getting a counterfeit on ebay. That leaves me with just the cowboys and cobras as real options, but they don't quite hit the mark. 

[mikesc]

Quote

That leaves me with just the cowboys and cobras as real options, but they don't quite hit the mark. 

Or Techsew...

Edited July 1, 2019 by mikesc

[bikermutt07]

44 minutes ago, Starwind0 said:

Yeah I am getting frustrated. Even if I wanted a random Juki or Consew, it looks like my options are dealing with mom n pop stores, and driving a day, stalking craigslist for 2 months and hope it works, or risk getting a counterfeit on ebay. That leaves me with just the cowboys and cobras as real options, but they don't quite hit the mark. 

Just save a bit and be ready when one shows up. I had two fantastic deals fall in my lap in one month. It does happen. 

In six weeks you might run across an ad about how someone is getting out of leather, etc etc. That's when you clean up in this hobby.

I have more stuff than I know what to do with, or where to put it..... Thanks to two guys getting out of leather, mostly. And those two investments where totaled at 1350.00. I wound up with probably $7-8,000.00 worth of materials, supplies, patterns, and machines. 

The big items were a cowboy 3200, a heritage 8" splitter, saddlers' tools, hundreds of stamps, letter sets, hand tools, pattern books, craft aids, you name it.

The first deal was a guy getting out of prison. He needed cash, so that investment was $350.00.

The second was a widower who was moving from Vegas to Oklahoma and did not want to mess with packing everything. I had to make a 57 hour round trip from Shreveport to Vegas, but the price was right. It better the cowboy 3200 and everything else the guy had for $1000.00. 

That trip cost $500.00 to make. I'm not saying make a crazy road trip like I did, I'm just saying be ready when a deal pops up. 

You will save thousands in this hobby by just having a small savings on hand.

 

Edit: the two deals that I described didn't happen together. The two deals that happened in one month were the  consew for $400.00 and the Vegas deal. Both in September of 2018. The prison deal was probably in 2015 or 2016.

Edited July 1, 2019 by bikermutt07

[kgg]

1 hour ago, Starwind0 said:

That leaves me with just the cowboys and cobras as real options, but they don't quite hit the mark.

What is the mark that you have decided on? From that point I am sure someone can point you in the right direction and suggest the best machine option. Another option that hasn't been suggested and may suit your needs for straps, wallets and bags depending on the thickness of the material maybe a portable walking foot machine.

I would recommend you check out the Reliable Barracuda which are available at Home Depot for about $500 with 3 yr warranty (https://reliablecorporation.ca/products/barracuda-200zw-portable-walking-foot-zig-zag-sewing-machine), Sailrite LSZ for about $900, Techsew 611 for about $500. Place any of them in a table, add a servo motor and you would have a similar and I think a better a better machine then the Tandy pro stitch costing about $1500. Even though these are not true industrial sewing machines it maybe an option to get your feet wet so to speak.

 

kgg

[jrprottas]

57 minutes ago, bikermutt07 said:

Just save a bit and be ready when one shows up. I had two fantastic deals fall in my lap in one month. It does happen. 

In six weeks you might run across an ad about how someone is getting out of leather, etc etc. That's when you clean up in this hobby.

I have more stuff than I know what to do with, or where to put it..... Thanks to two guys getting out of leather, mostly. And those two investments where totaled at 1350.00. I wound up with probably $7-8,000.00 worth of materials, supplies, patterns, and machines. 

The big items were a cowboy 3200, a heritage 8" splitter, saddlers' tools, hundreds of stamps, letter sets, hand tools, pattern books, craft aids, you name it.

The first deal was a guy getting out of prison. He needed cash, so that investment was $350.00.

The second was a widower who was moving from Vegas to Oklahoma and did not want to mess with packing everything. I had to make a 57 hour round trip from Shreveport to Vegas, but the price was right. It better the cowboy 3200 and everything else the guy had for $1000.00. 

That trip cost $500.00 to make. I'm not saying make a crazy road trip like I did, I'm just saying be ready when a deal pops up. 

You will save thousands in this hobby by just having a small savings on hand.

 

Edit: the two deals that I described didn't happen together. The two deals that happened in one month were the  consew for $400.00 and the Vegas deal. Both in September of 2018. The prison deal was probably in 2015 or 2016.

how did you learn about these deals? craigslist or on leather blogs?

[bikermutt07]

27 minutes ago, jrprottas said:

how did you learn about these deals? craigslist or on leather blogs?

The prison guy was from Craigslist, the Vegas deal was found here, and the consew was found thru a friend who deals a lot with the service guy at a local sewing shop.

Just keep an eye out. It might not pop up for 6 months, but eventually a deal will show up.

 

 

Here is just an observation I've made......

 In the general market there isn't a ton of interest in leather tools. So, family members of deceased leather workers usually have no idea what something could be worth. And then, when they look on line they want near retail pricing. The problem with that is they want to sell it all at once. They don't realize that someone interested in all that stuff already has most of it already and isn't really interested in an entire collection.

So, resale value is low on large lots owned by uninterested parties. I see it all the time here. 

This creates a buyer's market. I have heard that the best finds on industrial machines are when grandpa passed away and someone wants to sell his "old sewing machine". When the buyer shows up he finds some amazing deal on an old workhorse for next to nothing. 

I haven't experienced that one, but I've heard a few similar stories to it.

End of non requested babbling.....