When can you call yourself a craftsman?

[robs456]

Dudes, excuse my absence in this very important thread. But let me end the artist/artisan confusion forever:

Artist -drinks wine, eats oysters and/or foie gras.

Artisan -drinks beer, eats fried chicken and/or fish.

 

[mikesc]

Unfortunately, despite loving wine, and having a large collection of full bottles of very good wine ( some people only have a large collection of empty bottles ) :)
I became allergic ( not the sulphites, happens with organic wine too ) to something in red wine about 10 years ago..
Never could see the thing about oysters, they are like having a really heavy cold and swallowing, snot with shells on.
Foie gras, no thanks , the way they make it is disgusting and cruel..bad for the geese, and bad for humans too, fills your arteries with crap, your intestines too, ( yes I know they are already full of crap )neighbour who loves the stuff has had two operations for intestinal cancer already, his surgeon has told him ( remember this is France ) "lay off the foie gras before it kills you"..

Back in the day when passports had one's profession written on them..mine said Artist / Designer.

Nowadays they ( passport authorities of UK and Eire in my case ) don't have that "field"..if they did, it would read as it did previously.

I see both here ( and in offline life ) many many examples of work by both hobbyists and professional leather workers that in my opinion are certainly worthy of the label "Craftsman"..many certainly worthy of "Artisan", as relating to the quality of the work, most of them are much better than I can do as regards some of the specific techniques, I'm also now a bit old to have the time available to me to perfect techniques to such levels..that kind of technical perfection takes time..Leather work is not my main business nor interest, I'd rather spend the time I have on the things which are.

I also see here some people's work ( I've never seen them describe themselves as Artists, but I consider them to be the perfect blend of artist and artisan, well above my skill level ), I'm thinking in particular of those who are currently posting on the site here, but not yet in this thread..RockyAussie, and Rolandranch..and for work that makes me smile each time I see it at the level of artistry ABhandmade..Of those who no longer post , Azmal / Prince and a lady who did a lot of work with decorative leather combined with horn , who's "nick" I cannot remember at the moment..There are currently , and have been others, but those stand out to me..

Tangential to the OPs question, if I may make a suggestion..get out of basic belts and wallets..

"The world and his / her dog" are doing them, you can always be undercut on pricing, whether it is by the stand next to you, or the other side of the fair, at the craft-fair, or the Chinese with free shipping..

Explaining why the customer should buy quality over mass produced or "roughly finished" ?..

Heinlein said it years ago..teaching pigs to sing , annoys both you and the pigs"..and I would add, is a futile waste of your time..

They either want quality, know what it is, and will pay for it.or they won't..all the time you spend explaining to them, is time that you are not doing what you want to be doing..and all any of us have is time..
If they want cheap, let the other guy or girl make it..Once you begin "price matching"..you'll be competing with guys like the Kenyan ( or with those who import ) who posted recently offering leatherwork at $4.00 per hour.

Yesterday I saw ( at the "hat fair" that I mentioned in another thread) a stand with obvious Indian handbags and belts marked "handmade"..their prices would not cover the cost of the leather..But they looked the part, only the dog didn't have a pony tail and beads..they had lots of "lookers" , but very few buyers. Belts were badly finished "splits" with top finishing..equivalent pricing in Euros to USD $30.oo to USD$50.oo per belt, ( no stitching around, only at buckle, and in the wrong direction ) and bags ( with badly hand stitched, and badly machine stitched work ) at USD$50.oo to USD$100.oo.. again some "lookers" no buyers..

The only real artisan, retired ( Compagnon du Devoir ) there, who I mentioned in that other thread
link about the Compagnons du Devoir ..( copy and paste into your address bar..hit "go" )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnons_du_Devoir
was just demonstrating making belts and card holders and wallets on a small table, with basic tools..he had a few card holders for sale €12.oo each, a few wallets at €20.oo each, no price on the belts, but if anyone asked, they were €30.oo , but he said "they are not dyed , nor finished..they are not for sale here, I'm merely showing what we can teach your children ( from age 4 to 14 ) to make at our free classes..You can bring them next week and buy a belt, let your kids see what we can teach them".."Not just leatherwork, also stone carving and a host of other things, trying to get kids interested in working with their hands"..
He was surrounded, he was cutting, stitching belts around one per 15 minutes( using a French clamp), explaining as he went..
If you are going to sell belts , wallets and card holders, make some in front of the people..have some others ready to go..

But..I come back to it..

Much better to make something that others do not or make yours very different, ( filigree, or carved, or multicoloured dyed ) or offer names ( to be sent on later, paid in advance at the stand ) make them more expensive..Maybe put some bondage cuffs* out..just enough to get some interest from those who won't ask how much, but will ask "can you do"..and when you say you can, but that it will be ..... and will need paying "upfront"..Those who order, will keep you busy enough to not regret being" too expensive" compared to the guy who calls himself a "craftsman"..

Go "upmarket"..add some "sizzle"..
You are not selling to us ..nor to JLS :)
You are selling to people who have been conditioned by the ad business..( another of many areas in which I have worked ) ..they like "presentation".."entertainment".. don't tell them "hand made" and "high quality"..Hand make something of high quality..right before their eyes..
And have some "already made and finished" ready to go ..

It is irrelevant to sales of leather goods to the non leatherworking public what the leatherworkers would buy, or what we leatherworkers want to hear..or not hear.

*Depends on the venue..church folks will probably buy them, ( huge numbers of them do ) they might not want them out on view though..

edited to add ..everywhere that I write "man" as in Craftsman etc ..please also read "woman"..it makes the text unreadable if I try to make each word "neutral".

Edited July 22, 2019 by mikesc

[chrisash]

Brilliant mike

[fredk]

On 7/21/2019 at 9:10 PM, mikesc said:

An artisan is not a combination of artist and craftsman..Michelangelo was an artist, the artisans did what he designed..artisan is, if you will, a grade above craftsman..an artisan is rarely a creator ( when they are, they are an artist ), but is a highly skilled craftsman.
A sculptor is an artist..a stone mason is an artisan.
. . .

 

13 hours ago, chrisash said:

The Oxford dictionary description of a artisan, does not have quite the same meaning but rather watered down to modern times

artisan | Definition of artisan in English by Oxford Dictionaries

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/artisan

noun. 1A worker in a skilled trade, especially one that involves making things by hand. 'street markets where local artisans display handwoven textiles, painted ceramics, and leather goods'

unfortunately here in N.I. it has been watered down so much more that no-one really knows the meaning and its just attached to anything and everything as a modern catch-all phrase

[Handstitched]

19 hours ago, mikesc said:

Never could see the thing about oysters, they are like having a really heavy cold and swallowing, snot with shells on.

Aw geez  , that had me in tears  !!! My sentiments exactly . Looks like someone has gobbed into a shell  and then  people eat it 

 

19 hours ago, mikesc said:

Heinlein said it years ago..teaching pigs to sing , annoys both you and the pigs".

I wondered where that came from, I quoted that in another post not knowing where it came from , I saw on a coffee cup   . " Never try to teach a pig to sing, its  wastes your time  and annoys the pig " 

22 hours ago, robs456 said:

Artist -drinks wine, eats oysters and/or foie gras.

Artisan -drinks beer, eats fried chicken and/or fish.

 Leather worker - eats what ever is cheap or  on special at the local supermarket  & this is the only job he can do while enjoying a beer in the arvo ....and not get the sack   

HS 

[robs456]

16 minutes ago, Handstitched said:

this is the only job he can do while enjoying a beer in the arvo ....and not get the sack   

Oh, and watching movies on the job, wearing only underwear (pref when working alone perhaps, and maybe not while using extremely sharp cutlery), checking relevant forums during drying times etc...

[Handstitched]

19 hours ago, robs456 said:

Oh, and watching movies on the job

Yep, you got that bit right, as for wearing my undies while working ? That might scare my customers off    and besides, like you said, sharp tools, dyes and chemicals , that could be hazardous . Try explaining that to the insurance company. 

HS 

[robs456]

45 minutes ago, Handstitched said:

Try explaining that to the insurance company. 

HS 

[cdthayer]

I like to treadle my machines barefooted, but I won’t say what other clothing that I may or may not have on while sewing.  Only my shop dog knows, and he ain’t tellin’.

But getting back to the main topic of “When can you call yourself a craftsman?”, it’s sort of unfair to compare the term Craftsman of today to the great Al Stohlman of 60 years ago.  (I first learned of Al Stohlman when I was around 14 years old (1966) and took leathercraft in 4H.  He was already a legend at that time.)

We may need to come up with a new definition of “Craftsman” to compare today with bygone years.  When it comes to sewing machines, back in 1966, some shops were still using treadles.  Real “Craftsmen” learned how to coordinate their feet and hands to be proficient with a treadle sewing machine.  Other shops had long switched to clutch motors (1940s) and were enjoying electrification.  Boy, can I imagine the excitement when the first clutch motors hit the market!  Some treadle operators were no doubt intimidated, while those that weren’t worth a damn at treadling probably then had a shot at employment.

Clutch motors went through one improvement after another, making them supposedly easier to control and more efficient (I still think that the early Atlas Clutch Motors were the best.).  Operators took great pride in becoming “good” with a clutch motor, and that improved their chances of employment.  It was all in the “feathering”, and had to be learned with lots of practice. Speed reducers were added to help with control (reducing the need to be able to feather) and for torque.  

Then, along came the Servo motors completely eliminating the need for “feathering”.  And then came improvements to the servo motors.  Then needle positioning and other enhancements to make sewing machines easier to operate.  Computerized sewing machines can now do all of the “work” after the operator does a few things to set the machine up, push the button, and wait for the machine to finish.  Is a person that selects computer programming to initiate a machine function also a “Craftsman”?

We’re getting to be such a “plug-n-play” world now, that the term Craftsman is slowly becoming immaterial.  We may need a new term for today’s bragging rights.

CD in Oklahoma

[fredk]

interesting input CD

But even waaaaaaaaay back 'Crafts' man meant somat different. In his memoirs a soldier of the 95th Rifles said he was called a 'Craft' as he knew how to repair boots. He was a 'Crafts Man' even though he was not trained as a cobbler, he had been a clerk before.

me; barefoot, thats how I find dropped rivets, sewing needles, stitching punches.... Usually no shirt on either, keeps the sleevies out of the dye. Splashes of dye on skin can be covered up later, on a shirt it means a ruined shirt