How to get your products to sell well

[chrisash]

That's the beauty of a good brand, it still carries the good name sometimes far after its dropped its high quality standards, and others using modern methods produce higher quality in competition, but buyers are still preferring the established brand

[mikesc]

2 hours ago, Lfrog said:

If someone wants to give £1.5-2k

That is the cheapo end of what they do..I'm talking about the Hérmes sacs at over €8k* going upto €100k - €200K..and then some people have extra "bling" added so they can fetch far far more. LV are not quite so extreme with their leather prices, but even so €1.5-2K is the really bottom end of their market..( which yes, they do make a lot of money on ) that is all machine sewn, my wife has a few LV bought when we were based in Cannes from their shop, ( years ago now, but even so were between €5k and €10k ) and a couple of Hérmes which were "more expensive"..comes from living ( at that time ) 50 metres from the Hérmes boutique on the corner of la Croisette and Rue Cdt André. Very very well finished from both brands, but even so..At that time she was in real estate, with an agency in Cannes and another in Nice and I was importing Levi jeans and Harley gear. Luxury brand leather was part of the image that one had to project to deal with very rich clients. There is still "silly money" in a lot of places, few of the rich have become poorer, which is why producing for the luxury end of the market is a better bet, and easier to get started in, than attempting to compete with the mass market stuff that comes out of various Asian countries and the Indian sub continent.People tend not to be too concerned about the price they pay for well made high quality exclusive things..Be it, leather goods, "designer" fashion items and apparel, luxury Villas or apartments ( or not so luxury but in "the right addresses".avec belle vue mer, ou avec vue sur la tour Eiffel etc ) , luxury vehicles  ( and their accessories and interiors ) artwork, sculpture,  high end décors etc.

I said it an a previous thread,( about "craftsmen" ) and this is Brian's thread, his techniques and experience, and experiences etc, are more applicable than mine for almost everyone, but making what people want, and in some cases crave, or dream of, or make it "really special" , unique, exclusive, is far more lucrative than making what everyone else is making..and as Brian suggested in his last post , think "laterally" about how to get an "in"..

It is also about hard work, and inventiveness, unless you get very lucky..or "discovered" by the jet set.

*https://www.businessinsider.com/hermes-birkin-bag-realreal-handbag-expert-so-expensive-2019-6?IR=T

Hérmes and LVMH stuff is still very high quality, but IMO , not worth the prices, but, worth is in the eye of the beholder, a Picasso scribble on a napkin can buy a nice apartment in Cannes ( but maybe not with "vue sur la mer" )..value is relative..what would you pay for a glass of water in the desert, or an extra 5 minutes with your loved ones if this was your last hour.

Edited August 31, 2019 by mikesc

[RockyAussie]

12 hours ago, Lfrog said:

@robs456 But RockyAussies suggestion with the wrist band involves scale, they will want a manufacturer  who has he the ability  to produce  1000's which IMO is good., but for you not so good perhaps. You seem averse to volume production methods, as if it detracts from your "art". Maybe it does I am not qualified to say, but only you can resolve that dilemma.

Volume doesnt have to mean shoddy and sh*t. 

I do see that often on here and elsewhere where volume production is somehow associated with shoddy workmanship. That is often true but very often not as well. I will say that you could pick out anyone of a hundred belts I make in a batch and put it alongside 99% of any other makers belt and mine will be as good if not better. It is what you do that matters. 

Your first point that involves scale is correct as well but Rob also said " If money starts pouring in that mindset might change". If I had to put my money one way or the other I think most would try, if the money is pouring in. I am sure that it would not be difficult to get the product done elsewhere in Sweden to his design specs if it toooo boring.

I am going to say that my experience with sales has generally been very good and for several reasons I can think of like homework, trust and creditability,and working with customers in a collaborative and helpful way. I like to help people where and whenever I can and that often comes back to make the other reasons that much easier.

For Rob tackling something like the band Sabaton may sound a high challenge or not. If it does I can suggest how helping others can make this easier. Many other artists could use help in getting their products in front of the public and thereby enhancing their name/brand. By starting off a combined artist promotion group like (Swedish artists international promotions) (Made in Sweden artists collaboration) and inviting some artists to join and and collectively promote each other you then have an advantage in introducing yourself to other prospective customers. The letter head from Swedish artists promotions to a prospective customer and particularly another Swedish artist (The band) should at least warrant a read. I am not going to give you the words but you should see where and how this can help I think.

In my own experience I will add that quite a few of my large (multi millionaire)customers work collaboratively together and make deals work to each other advantage VERY well. They HELP each other.

 

[RockyAussie]

The power of the brand is something I have been addressing here and something that can take many years to achieve. Many as some have pointed out earlier have done it through celebrities. Many of us wonder why if we make an excellent product that it will not sell for anything near the same price range. Truth is I think that the marketing of the brand influences perhaps more than 80% of the sale. This following is an example that happened to me many years ago now. I had this wealthy customer from Hong Kong that every year or so would drop in and get me to make a wallet or something or other. Quintin Tz........ though wealthy was still fairly young (20-25ish) and this time wanted one of the briefcases I made as in this picture below. It has a nice Franzen single combination fitting I imported from Germany I think and the pine timber and ply shell I made as well.The lining was mainly done with a golden tight nap deer skin suede. H

inges imported from Spain.

Now as nice as the bag was the price was not all that inexpensive. In today's terms probably about $2000 au. At the time when Quintin came to pick up his briefcase he noticed that I was making some ostrich purses for the brand Bally and and had a lot of their little metal badges that had to go onto each product. He asked me how much would it cost extra to have one of these badges put onto his briefcase. I said that is not possible as I don't make these briefcases for them. He showed me that he was wearing Bally shoes and that he would be happy to pay plenty if I would as he loved the Bally brand. He offered me in the end more than what I was charging for the whole briefcase. I had to decline of course but if he was not flying out that day I might have been able to organise it I guess. I have to say that for all of my hard work and craftsmanship that little badge was worth more to him.. Still hurts a bit. 

I will finish of tonight by saying that as great a leather work artisan you can become, without building a recognised brand you can not expect to sell your products for even 1/2 the price or sometimes a 1/4. 

I am saying this as it is apparent to me that many good people on here work really hard at trying to become an expert leather worker thinking that their good work alone will somehow lead on to good sales.

No matter whether you are a fan of of Nigel, Newa or Nitz without the marketing you are no................

 

[Lfrog]

@RockyAussie

So we only really have the power of perceived value, we cant hide behind a brand the product has to stand up for itself.

I watched a youtube video of a company which gives a 100 year warranty on their product. Made from mexican chrome tanned leather, the material may not be as good as many use here but I doubt many here would offer that type of warranty, a smart marketing move, he knows that x% will return within x number of years and builds that into his margin. But it reinforces his belief in how "rugged" his product is, and his customer has assurance as to the products lifespan (oh and he uses crocodiles in one of his promotion videos.)

Edited September 1, 2019 by Lfrog
email spelt incorrectly.

[fredk]

35 minutes ago, Lfrog said:

. . . I watched a youtube video of a company which gives a 100 year warranty on their product. Made from mexican chrome tanned leather, the material may not be as good as many use here but I doubt many here would offer that type of warranty, . . .

I give a life-time warranty on all my goods plus free repair. In 20 years I've had two items back for repair. Both were really well used, the damage was due to wear-and-tear, but repair them I did. When asked what 'life-time' means, ie mine, the item's or the owner's?  I tell 'em, mine or the item's which ever ends first

For 16 years my brand was just - Fred. Cos I was fairly well known in the Historical Presentation/Re-enactment circles. Just "get Fred to make it/mend it" But since I left that scene I have to start over again.

[JLSleather]

'Hey, If you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it "guaranteed", I can do it - I have spare time.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf4C9ssuPjE

Edited September 1, 2019 by JLSleather

[fredk]

btw, a 'life-time' guarantee is illegal** in EU law. afair it has to be in nominated years and be of reasonable length. The 100 years mentioned above would be out of order I think  but 50 or 75 years would be fine

** but I don't care, so there  

 

[robs456]

On 8/31/2019 at 12:28 PM, RockyAussie said:

sorry for taking this long to reply to you, its been a busy end of month for me. I have read your outline of thoughts a few times and I have to say that there is a lot of contradictions within it that leave me to suggest a different strategy than to what you are stating you want.

No problem, taking care of business comes first.
And yeah, even as I wrote the post I noticed the contradictions but kept going to put it all out there. It was very therapeutic and of course gave me a lot to think about. Like:

On 8/31/2019 at 12:28 PM, RockyAussie said:

Your answer told me that you did not really want to sell into those shops. You want people to buy the product that you want to make and until the product becomes boring to make. Thank God that for you and them it is not up and going.

From what you say and what can be seen in your insta you have within you an artist streak that needs to be satisfied and that needs to find a way to come out and earn you money and reputation as well.

Yes, I had some kind of idea before but this thread have quite confirmed that I want to go the artistic route more. Thanks for making me realise that. I'm not averse to some small run work, say like 20 belts in short time, but don't want to do that all the time.

On 8/31/2019 at 12:28 PM, RockyAussie said:

SABATON

Interesting idea. Had a guy that was gonna introduce me to John Norum (Europe) to basically start the word going, but nothing materialized. Better not rely on a friend of a friend...

On 8/31/2019 at 12:28 PM, RockyAussie said:

Selling is often best achieved if you can think of it more like a collaboration in getting products sold instead of here is my product I want your money.

That's why I like doing custom work, I see it as a collab between customer and maker.

On 8/31/2019 at 2:20 PM, Lfrog said:

Volume doesnt have to mean shoddy and sh*t

Definitely not, the right process and machines (and QC) can turn out a great product. Which is why RockyAussie started these threads I guess, to help others get there too.
But Volume with great art is something I haven't really seen. Usually that means embossing machines which will never look as good as hand stamping or carving. Or it will mean having a lot of people working under pressure like in the old(?) saddlemakers that made Porter and Sheridan tooling famous...I have seen some of those saddles and they are 'good' not great. 

On 8/31/2019 at 2:25 PM, chrisash said:

does anyone really care about the difference between hand and machine sewing

More than you think I guess. Some people want/need handstitched for the extra toughness/strength -though most products don't really require that today- and some for the looks. And a few for the fact that a person did all the work on the product.

10 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I am sure that it would not be difficult to get the product done elsewhere in Sweden to his design specs if it toooo boring.

No, I can think of a few places to have this outsourced to in Sweden, still having that 'Made in Sweden' badge...

10 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

By starting off a combined artist promotion group like (Swedish artists international promotions) (Made in Sweden artists collaboration) and inviting some artists to join and and collectively promote each other you then have an advantage in introducing yourself to other prospective customers.

Yes, will check if this exists already or if I can start one.

1 hour ago, Lfrog said:

So we only really have the power of perceived value, we cant hide behind a brand the product has to stand up for itself.

For most of us this is 100% true, only the big brands don't really have to do more than put their brand on 'whatever' and it will sell. We on the other hand need to make something so great, that it warrants the customer to brag about it to all their friends.

[chrisash]

For most of us this is 100% true, only the big brands don't really have to do more than put their brand on 'whatever' and it will sell. We on the other hand need to make something so great, that it warrants the customer to brag about it to all their friends

That's true but they had to spend fortunes on marketing and presentation along with  the right design and flair to get noticed in the first place, companies are happy to spend millions just to get you to chose what petrol you put in your car