Making Leather Stamps

[dprezgay]

I know I'm opening a can of worms here but here it goes.

I want to make some custom leather stamps.  The kind you make with a piece of metal and a cnc machine.  I know that I can get them made but I need to make a lot of them for some projects I want to do.  These would be for personal use or for use in the leatherwork classes I teach with Scouts.  Some will be used once or twice and others might be used hundreds of times.  I will probably recycle them, after I'm done with them, by melting them and turning them into "raw" material to make more stamps.

Example 1 - My wife is a High School math teacher.  She also runs the Rubic's Cube club along with having a bridge building competition team.  She was born on 3/14 which is considered Pi Day and also happens to be Albert Einstein's birthday.  I want to build a portfolio briefcase that incorporates all this onto it.  I plan on making a border with a meandering stamp with as many digits of Pi that I can fit going around the whole front and back piece.  There will be a Rubic's Cube, a swivel knife portrait of Einstein (the one with his tongue sticking out) and lots of common math formulas for the different classes she teaches.  Some will look very formal (like they were typed) and some I want to look like they were written. 

Example 2 - I want to make custom stamps for the different events that are held in our local BSA Council.  Like one for the 2020 Summer Camp so scouts can make something with the 2020 logo and year on it.  

Example 3 - I want to make some custom stamps (like the Craftool 2D/3D stamps) that you use a mallet on.

This is only a few of the ideas I have.

What I would like to know is:

    Who should I talk to about this?  The same companies that do the "Maker's" stamps don't want to talk to me because they think I want to do this as a business. 

    Would it be a machinist? 

    Someone that runs a trophy store?   

    A mechanical engineer? 

    Who can tell me what equipment and software I should use?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dale  

    

 

     

 

[HaloJones]

I have made only 1 stamp (a tiny mule foot) which I 3D printed using PETG filament, I expect it to last some years 

I used free software called Tinkercad as I have zero CAD skills.

if you have, or want justification to get a 3D printer it’s a viable option to do it yourself 

Recycling 3D filament is possible but I personally don’t think the effort justified the saving, I think in materials my stamp cost 10p!

If you just want numbers then many existing options exist, see any leather tool supplier  

[dprezgay]

I don't know what type of detail I could get from a 3d printed stamps.  I just watched some videos on it and it looks promising.  I'm going to anchorage at the end of October and there is a makerspace there.  I'll do some testing there and see what I can come up with.  The formulas I want to make into stamps might be as simple as 2+2=4 or complex trigonometric equations or geometric symbols.  I might want it to look like it was typed, like from a textbook, or I might want it to look like it was written on a chalkboard.  I might want it small or large.  The mass produced alphabet and number sets would be totally inadequate for this project.  But if I could get the right amount of detail, this would be the cheapest way to go.  

Sure, someone with skill could effectively use a swivel knife and carve formulas and math symbols all day and it would look fantastic.  But I have done almost nothing with a swivel knife.  With Scouts, we only work on small projects and the classes are not long enough to do anything but stamping. 

If 3d printed, I wouldn't be able to recycle them for my own reuse.  Only if I was making them out of brass or some other metal would I be able to possibly melt the stamp and metal shavings to reuse.

Also I wanted to use metal on some stamps so we can use them with a mallet and not a press of some kind.  Mainly for a camp logo or event logo that the Scouts can use.  It might be used hundreds of times.

Thanks for the response.

 

Dale

 

[HaloJones]

I used the PETG one with a mallet & have seen logos done the same way too

[chrisash]

For the numbers of each type of stamp , it would be hard to beat Tandy's price and no doubt they would give you a good discount for a large order

That BK and others charge four times the price or more gives some idea that its not a cheap option to have them made unless serious quantities ordered or long established firm, 

Yes i know bk and the likes looks for higher profit, but i guess sell far lower sales numbers in stamps

Edited September 30, 2019 by chrisash

[mikesc]

BK and Arbalet12 etc are more expensive, because ( amongst other things ) their stamps are far far far better than the Tandy ones, it is not merely a question of "profit" margins, and , or final retail price over initial materials price.

Edited September 30, 2019 by mikesc

[chrisash]

Agreed, but OP was looking at cheap stamps, which must mean cheaper than Tandy, and only real choice is to get them made in the far east or negotiate with Tandy, I cannot see a US maker doing them less than Tandy 

[mikesc]

No one is going to "custom make" ( not even in the Far East ) for less than the Tandy "off the shelf" price..But for better "off the shelf quality" than Tandy, and cheaper..Goods Japan.

[dprezgay]

Were a little off topic now.  

I'm not interested in making any figure carving stamps like Barry King or any of the others.  I want to know how to make custom 3D stamps like the Tandy stamps.  Not to mass produce them.  I'm talking making one offs.  The kind of stamps that are commonly referred to as "Maker's Stamps".  It is the same principle weather you making a stamp with your name on it or some graphic image to stamp into leather.  I'm not under the illusion that they are going to be cheaper to make.  I know they are going to cost me more.  But, if I make several hundred of them over the next few years, it might be cheaper for me to purchase the equipment than to send them out to get made.  Not to mention the fact that I could have something made within a couple hours instead of days.

So how can I take a  1" thick piece of brass and make it into a stamp using a cnc machine.  Not melting it and pouring into a mold.  Not using hand tools to shape it into what I want.  But taking a 3D image from my computer and have a nice finished stamp come out the other end.

Thanks,

 

Dale

[mikesc]

Ah..if you don't already have a 3D modelling program..
Try FreeCad ..which is free and "cross platform"
it can output Gcode to run a CNC machine.
using path workbench

A CNC machine can also ( by switching the head to a laser, and using a different program, such as laserweb or lasergrbl ) be used as a laser engraver.

You might also want to look into grbl .

There is other software, but if you want "free" those are a start..

HTH :)

You'll find some useful tutorials and items on youtube and instructibles, and there are many dedicated fora.

Edited October 1, 2019 by mikesc

[fredk]

1. may I suggest you put in your profile where in the world you are located then we may be able to make suggestions pertinent to where you are. It may be useless to you for me to tell you to go see one of the North Down Model Railway Society members, unless you are in Northern Ireland.

2. no matter where you are you need to seek out a small engineering works which uses CNC cutters for making custom automotive/motorcycle parts. They will probably be the only ones who will do one-offs in metal.  A large company using these machines will be making parts in the hundreds or thousands and won't want to see you.

3. The stamp need not be cut in metal. Wet leather, as for stamping, is very, very soft. As long as the stamp is harder than the leather it will mark it. I have recently bought some stamps made by a Russian chap. He made them with a 3D printer. They not only have the most excellent detail, but press into the leather and transfer their pattern most easily. If you do not have a 3D printer hook up with someone who does.

 

link to the Russian chap's ebay listing;  https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=nasimex&_sop=15

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by fredk

[mikesc]

I now get the impression that he is thinking of getting his own CNC machine Fred..and I think is in the USA from previous posts..
Good point about 3D printers, for limited runs of any stamp they are an alternative..

To buy the machines, CNC, laser engravers, 3D printers..I suggest aliexpress..unless you want to spend a lot of money..and have the risk that you will be getting resold Chinese machines at huge markup..

[fredk]

I'm toying with the idea of getting one of those 3D 'doodle' pens to draw over art-work, or draw new art-work, in the plastic which is extruded. Going over it a few times should give some thickness and depth to the lines

[chrisash]

Thats a great idea fred something like CRAFTAID sheets, I would imagine they would last a fair amount of time for repeats as well, though you would need to check how wide the nozzle is as they may print a very thick line

Edited October 1, 2019 by chrisash

[RockyAussie]

Way before the time there were 3D printers a fairly successful way of doing this I found was to carve/stamp the design heavily into the leather and then seal it up well.After that I put on some release agent and the pored a mix of high impact casting epoxy on to it and immediately followed this with a steel plate and allow to set.

I did this procedure on a cowboy boot cigarette lighter cover which stood up to the pressing for many thousands of copies. The old guy who used to sell them all over the country passed on and I let it all slide after that. This is a much easier process than learning how to do the 3d drawings and printing out but either way if you can draw up the 3D design whether its printed or CNC carved would make little difference. The cost of the print though would be less than 1/10 of the price and I found that the stamps held up very well as shown in this post I did awhile back. - https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/82905-is-there-a-font-for-ivan-alphabet-stamp-set-8132-00/

 

[fredk]

1 hour ago, chrisash said:

Thats a great idea fred something like CRAFTAID sheets, I would imagine they would last a fair amount of time for repeats as well, though you would need to check how wide the nozzle is as they may print a very thick line

As far as I can read it most 3D Doodle pens have a nozzle of 0.8 or 1mm. Which I think is adequate both thickness and thinness wise.  Yes. I'm thinking something like the Craftaid sheets, either as a further cutting guide or as a self-relief stamp.

 

1 hour ago, RockyAussie said:

Way before the time there were 3D printers a fairly successful way of doing this I found was to carve/stamp the design heavily into the leather and then seal it up well.After that I put on some release agent and the pored a mix of high impact casting epoxy on to it and immediately followed this with a steel plate and allow to set.. . . 

That too is a grand idea of a way.

Another type of material which could be used is Polymer Clay, better known by the trade names of FIMO and Sculpey. These clays are a thermo setting plastic. A soft modelling clay until baked in an oven for just a few minutes - approx 130* for 10 minutes, then they set hard and permanent. They can be carved and shaped easily before baking and Types 1 and 2 can be easily cut with hobby type knives and small chisels after baking. Type 3 needs more robust tools after baking. After baking the items are heat proof to a high degree. They will scorch before burning but will eventually burn like plastic

There are three grades of hardness after baking;

1. soft and flexible like a hard rubber

2. the standard grade, medium hardness but still a bit bendable

3. sets as hard as natural clay - this is the original FIMO which was invented to make dolls arms & hands, legs and heads

The three types can be inter-mixed which can alter their hardness as well as the very numerous colours they are available in.

 I have used polymer clay for making masters of viking/medieval belt/strap ends for sand casting in metal. I've also used it for many other items which required copies, eg buck for heat moulding plastic sheet over.

Using RockyAussie's method above, the design could be carved into a material, eg a sheet of polymer clay [hereafter P/C] which is baked, then more clay pressed into that to make the reverse stamp. If a release agent is used, eg, water or talc, the fresh P/C can be baked in situ on the original and the two can be separated. With a suitable release agent plastic resin can be used in a P/C mould. Type 1 is best for this as it can be flexed to release the resin copy.

Time for experiments I think. If I can find one of the P/C belt ends I'll try pressing it into some leather.

 

9 hours ago, mikesc said:

I now get the impression that he is thinking of getting his own CNC machine Fred..and I think is in the USA from previous posts.  . . . 

I do believe you are right.  Yes, USA, I got that too from mention of BSA et al,  but thats a kinda-of a large place innit? 

[dprezgay]

On 9/30/2019 at 5:24 PM, mikesc said:

I now get the impression that he is thinking of getting his own CNC machine Fred..and I think is in the USA from previous posts..
Good point about 3D printers, for limited runs of any stamp they are an alternative..

To buy the machines, CNC, laser engravers, 3D printers..I suggest aliexpress..unless you want to spend a lot of money..and have the risk that you will be getting resold Chinese machines at huge markup..

I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

Although I would love to have my own cnc machine, I will join a makerspace that already has one and use their equipment.  Then once I learn enough I might start looking for my own equipment.

I know that tandy uses molds to make their 3d stamps.  The only mold I might use is to make the back part of the 3d stamp and use that as the backing for a machined stamp face.  Or machine the stamp with a thicker base and thread a bolt on it to use it with a mallet.  

I'm going to Alaska in a week and will be there for about 5 weeks.  I found a makerspace there that has what I need.  There is also a Tandy that has a very skilled leatherworker there and I plan on spending a lot of time learning the stuff I should already know based on the amount of tools I already have.  

I'm sending a nice set of leather tools for me to use up there and might leave them there so I can use them whenever I go there.  I usually spend a couple weeks at a time up there when I go and may be doing it several times a year. So it might be worth it.  Maybe my Daughter or Son-in-Law will pick up the hobby.  

[sbrownn]

On 10/1/2019 at 12:54 AM, RockyAussie said:

Way before the time there were 3D printers a fairly successful way of doing this I found was to carve/stamp the design heavily into the leather and then seal it up well.After that I put on some release agent and the pored a mix of high impact casting epoxy on to it and immediately followed this with a steel plate and allow to set.

I did this procedure on a cowboy boot cigarette lighter cover which stood up to the pressing for many thousands of copies. The old guy who used to sell them all over the country passed on and I let it all slide after that. This is a much easier process than learning how to do the 3d drawings and printing out but either way if you can draw up the 3D design whether its printed or CNC carved would make little difference. The cost of the print though would be less than 1/10 of the price and I found that the stamps held up very well as shown in this post I did awhile back. - https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/82905-is-there-a-font-for-ivan-alphabet-stamp-set-8132-00/

 

What RockyAussie said.  A 3D printer will print a stamp much smaller than almost anyone can carve with a swivel knife and the stamps are very durable.  Something like a makers mark might cost five cents to print so when your stamp wears out you just print another.  I print almost exclusively with PLA these days simply because it is much less troublesome than anything else.  I have abused some stamps but I can't say I ever really wore one out.  One technique that I have used is to burn a pattern with a laser and then use a stamp made from the same pattern to "indent" it.  

[dprezgay]

Moderator

Please close this post.

Thanks,

Dale

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, dprezgay said:

Please close this post.

Some good info here, so not archiving it.  Have locked the thread so it is still available for reference.